***Group Read: The Captive

Here is the thread for the 5th book of In Search of Lost Time. This book has no breaks for chapters or parts at all, so we will just read at our own pace commenting as we read along. Please join in!

Added to the group read list.

Thanks so much! Please forgive me my lack of technology. I did try to figure out the wiki, but I couldn't.

When are we starting this again? Forgive my scatterbrained mind. I suddenly ended up with 3 jobs in June instead of one...hopefully I will be down to two shortly!

Start anytime you are ready, Angela! I am not in a hurry on this one either, as I am working a lot more than I used to work these days, too. I am planning to start this week, but I don't think I can read quite as fast as on the last one. On the other hand, this one is quite a bit shorter.

I read the first 30 pages or so today. Notice how this book picked up nearly right where the last book left off? He seems to do that all the time!
I might get to read more later but I'm not sure. It's amazing to me how he goes back and forth on whether he loves Albertine or not. He seems to associate love with pain, and he only imagines he loves her when she causes him pain. How sad...

I have read just a little farther than you, not too much. And I am wondering is Albertine the captive because she lives in his Paris home? Or is Marcel the captive because he stays behind while she leaves with Andree? What do you think?

According to the guide, Albertine is the captive, because Marcel eventually keeps her a virtual prisoner....
But I don't want to give anything away...

Beyond just being a stalker these days, huh? I have been out of town again, so I need to read some more.

I have read a little bit more. He is now referring to Albertine as his captive. Also, this quote caught my eye:

Then she would find her tongue and say: 'My ---' or 'My darling ---' followed by my Christian name, which, if we give the narrator the same name as the author of this book, would be 'My Marcel,' or 'My darling Marcel.'

Kind of coy. "If" we give the narrator the same name as the author.

I am in the midst of his rather long discussion of jealousy. He remarks that they were in love -- in other words torturing each other.

Yep, I caught the teasing remark about the unnamed narrator. I guess we just figured out why everyone calls this guy "Marcel". :) In other books I think he's referred to as M.

I really do think that Proust intended this series to be somewhat autobiographal. Although some significant details have been changed, it really seems like the author is speaking of which he knows.

I don't know how many times I keep repeating this as we read these books, but "These people seem to have no idea what love really is." Love appears to only equal pain, jealousy, distrust, dishonesty, etc.

He seems too self-centered to understand what love is.

I have just read the part where Albertine is on her way home from the play with Francoise, and Marcel is contemplating the sonata. Here is a quote:

Music, very different in this aspect from Albertine's society, helped me to descend into myself, to discover new things: the variety that I had sought in vain in life, in travel, but a longing for which was none the less renewed in me by this sonorous tide whose sunlit waves now came to expire at my feet.

And now he is just called Marcel. What I am wondering is why did he wait until well into the 5th book to address his name? Is that to make the Narrator hard to grasp? I think he succeeded there. :)

When is Albertine going to rebel? Or is she rebelling secretly as Marcel suspects?

Oh, another quote that I liked: Humanity is a very old institution.

And is Proust really like Marcel? That is something I would hide rather than broadcast! :) But I agree that he seems to write what he knows, and it sounds autobiographical, at least in part. Just using his own name like that kind of implies it, too. I have put off reading any commentary until finishing the whole thing, but I am dying to read some.

You are farther along than I am. It's interesting that he switches over to calling him Marcel all of a sudden...

As far as Proust being Marcel, I doubt if we'll ever know for sure. The commentary always says that this is NOT a biography, because Proust was homosexual and Marcel is not, because Marcel did this and this in the books and Proust never did, etc, etc, etc. I think Proust was quoted a few times about whether the books were about his life. I don't think he ever gives a solid answer, but I'm not sure.

Either way, I still think it would be very easy to write a series of books that are based on your own life and people you know. You'd just have to change names, dates, and places, and throw in some made up details, and voila! Plus, he could have gone to jail for homosexuality at this time period, so he wouldn't want to make his hero a homosexual and name him Marcel. People would start making enquiries. So he'd have to switch genders on his love interests when he wrote about them.

I do know that Proust spent a lot of time in bed. He even wrote in bed. And he was very close to his mother. And he tried various careers and nothing worked for him. And he always wanted to write but it took him most of his life to actually buckle down and do it. Sound familar? I bet when you do read the commentary you will see lots of similarities between both Marcels.

Perhaps you are right and Proust was being vague about whether he was the same Marcel of the books, because he didn't want people to know he was really like that! I know I would cringe if all my inner thoughts, good and bad, were broadcast to the world. I think we would all look pretty bad at times if we could read each others minds. :)

Thanks for your quotes, and for reading this with me. I'm really enjoying it.

Oh, and about Albertine? I don't really know exactly what she's going to do, but I always thought the title of the next book gave it away: "The Sweet Cheat Gone". ;)

I was just going over the titles with my daughter, and I seem to recall that my next title is called The Fugitive -- which I was thinking might mean that Albertine gets away. I hope so.

Yesterday I got to the part about Bergotte. I won't give it away. I was hoping to finish before Mark's group read, but I am not sure that I can. I just don't have as much reading time as I used to. I hope all your jobs are going ok. Thanks for reading this with me, too. I don't think I could make it through all of this without a reading buddy.

Well, I just checked and we are both right about the titles. This book is called either "The Captive" or "The Prisoner".

The next book is called either "Albertine Gone" "The Sweet Cheat Gone" or "The Fugitive".

The only book of the series that doesn't have multiple titles is The Guermantes Way - Book #3.

I haven't read anything new in this book lately. I'll have to get working on it, but I know you'll finish before me. I don't mind, though - I have a lot on my plate right now so I'm trying to cut myself some slack. :)

I stopped by your thread a minute ago but didn't leave a comment. I'm sorry. :( But good luck with your accounting class - with your daughter. And congrats on the new books. I forget - have you read any Louise Penny yet or not? I noticed you bought Still Life.

Hi, Angela! I have not read any in a few days. I started All the Pretty Horses and have not been able to put it down. I had planned to try to read The Captive by Wednesday, but that is not going to happen.

I read my first Louise Penny in a group read a while ago, and it was book 5 of Three Pines called The Brutal Telling. I thought it was a great read, so I decided to start at the beginning.

I just got to the part where the dairymaid is in Marcel's room. Haven't gotten to Bergotte yet.

I'm glad you like Louise Penny. Still Life isn't as strong as The Brutal Telling. The books get better as the series goes, but you should love it anyway. If it weren't for all the murders, I'd want to move to Three Pines! :)

You are really close to where I left off. I think that I will not be able to read this until I finish the Cormac McCarthy book -- I am close to the exciting conclusion.

The Penny book I read had really strong characters -- which is perfect for a series.

I got to "Chapter 2", whatever that means, where Swann's death is finally discussed, and where Marcel is off to dine at the Verdurins. The title is "The Verdurins Quarrel with de Charlus" or something like that.

I thought it was interesting when he mentioned that Swann would live on in people's minds, possibly because he had made him the hero of one of his books. :)

You and I are in exactly the same place. I just got there today. I never really thought of Swann as a hero. But I don't really see any heroes in these books. Maybe it is just me.

Interesting that you have chapters. My entire book has none. It just reads straight through for 388 pages. To me this is the hardest part about reading Proust.

I have read to the point where people are starting to leave the party. I enjoyed the descriptions of the music. These are the parts where I think Proust excels. People are dropping like flies, aren't they? Although some seem to return.

I am finally at the part where they are actually leaving the party after the shoddy treatment of Charlus. I was describing this book to my daughter, and she said that it sort of sounds like an episode of Desperate Housewives. Well, I have never seen that show, but sometimes it does seem like that. It varies between that and the other more beautiful writing that way.

I am finally at the point to where I want to finish the book. Before, I could only read a few pages at a time. Now I find it hard to put down. I took a peek at the next book, and it is even shorter. The last one is about the length of this one.

I haven't read much lately, so I'm still at the beginning of the party. Hope to catch up soon. I know what you mean about wanting to get it finished.

Charlus is an annoying character, and yet I also feel sorry for him at the same time.

I felt the same way. He can totally drive me crazy, but then later I sympathize with him.

I stuck with it all day and finally finished it. I think that Marcel is crazy. I mean, really! (By the way, the book is back to the oblique references to the Narrator. No more Marcel.)

Here is one of the quotes that I liked. There were others, but I just wanted to finish.

It seems that events are larger than the moment in which they occur and cannot be entirely contained in it. Certainly they overflow into the future through the memory that we retain of them, but they demand a place also in the time that precedes them. One may say that we do not then see them as they are to be, but in memory are they not modified too?

By the way, different from previous parties, this one goes practically from the beginning to the end quickly. The end is more drawn out. You have read so many books lately. I am impressed! I love also that you do such a good job writing reviews. I don't do that ever.

Wow, congrats for finishing! As long as I can schedule some time for the next Austen read a long, I will be ready to start the next book shortly after I finish this one. I know you're excited to finish Proust this year. :) We're kind of on a roll now...

As for my books and reviews, I've been in the habit lately of reading for a whole month, and then sitting down and adding and reviewing my whole month's reads at once! That's why it seems even more impressive than it is. I'm not on pace to read 100 books this year unless I pick up speed. We will see what happens. But I appreciate your kind words. Thanks.

It is funny, but when I started this book, I could barely read 20 pages. I was worried that on this shortest one, I would not be able to finish. But then in the midst of the party, I started to read longer.

I am also hoping to read all the Jane Austen books. I have only read chapter 1 of Mansfield Park, so I have a long, long way to go to catch up. Hope springs eternal!

I thought that this book ended perfectly. I can't wait to see what you think.

I got a big chunk of reading time in yesterday and now Kindle says I'm 85% done, so I'm getting close.

I'm sorry you found this one hard going at first. I have never had trouble reading any of these books, once I find the time to start that is. (Well, the last book was a little awkward reading at first, due to subject matter.) I mean, I know the characters aren't the greatest people (with a few exceptions), but overall I find their stories fascinating. I think its because of Proust's writing style. He makes the annoying characters easier to take, and sometimes it's almost like he's showing us how to laugh at them.

I am getting a little bit tired of the "love is only suffering" and obsession thing, but I've resigned myself to that. I don't think there's going to be any real love in these books.

Hopefully I'll be at the end soon!

A lot of the trouble that I had at the beginning had to do with all the other stuff going on in my life. I was just too tired to read much of anything. Which is why I stuck to really short, easy reads for a while.

Either love is suffering or boredom. He doesn't seem to have the ability to be happy in my mind.

Well, that makes perfect sense. I think a large percentage of our enjoyment (or not) of a book has to do with our frame of mind at the time.

I'm going to try to finish this today- woo hoo! We will see...

Well, I finished it. I'm very proud of myself because on Friday I was only 50% done with this book. Thanks to having a slight head cold, I read large portions yesterday and today.

You are right. The ending is pretty good and I was hoping that was how it was going to work out. I don't approve of Albertine's lying conduct, but Marcel lies just as much, and I know he thinks he is trying to help her...but really he's gone too far. I know he cares about her but you cannot force someone else to change - unless they decide to change. It's a tough lesson to learn in life, but everyone needs to grow up and learn that at some point!

And of course he needs to learn that he cannot "possess" a woman as if they are a pet, or a work of art. We aren't objects to own. ;)

Maybe this will teach Marcel a lesson about not saying things he doesn't really mean to try to manipulate others.

Well, let me know when you want to start the next one. I'll leave that up to you.

Congrats to you for finishing so quickly. I hope your cold gets better. I liked your final thoughts on Marcel. I have the feeling that he does not think of others enough to change. But two more books to see. I wonder just how honest he is as a narrator sometimes.

What about starting in August? Is that too soon? The next book is the shortest one.

Thanks. August should be fine! :)