This awful heading picture.

I think this heading picture is dreadful. How do others feel?

I agree. Dreadful indeed.

It's grotesque, but I sorta like the "I'm old, I'm doing what I want, deal with it" attitude.

I'm sure it's meant to be funny, and it is, kind of. But also kind of nasty. Not representative of the folks I find here. :)

My friends certainly won't be invited here. 😢

I have no opinion on the picture because I never actually look at the pictures of the different groups, including this one. For me it just appears as a thumbnail in the top right hand corner, and since the thread opens at the latest post, ie at the bottom of the page, I never actually see the picture, and I've often wondered what is the point of even having one. I couldn't tell you what the picture is in any of the groups I go to regularly, including the two groups where I am an admin!

>6 John5918:. Same.

I had to go find it. But now that I've seen it, I think it's kind of "camp" (style) as we used to say.

I had to look for it too. But I don't mind it. I agree with >3 nohrt4me2: 's opinion.

>7 vwinsloe: >8 haydninvienna: So do you feel that the “camp” image will encourage first time visitors to post to this group?

Has anyone contacted the group administrator to ask her to consider changing it?

>10 lilithcat: Is that her mugshot then?

There are two other choices in the gallery. I like the black & white print.

>12 2wonderY:

Yes, that's a nice one. The other one doesn't seem to relate to the group. Of course, other images could be added.

>9 TeaBag88: Yes, I think the photo would attract first-tme visitors with a certain sensibility, which you obviously don't share, and I presume that's what is bothering you.

The admin clearly has a particular type of in-your-face sensibility and thinks it's funny, either because it's campy or because it reflects self-loathing about being old. It's provocative and got you going, which is maybe what she wants.

My main beef with the image is that, if this is "Readers Over 60," there is no reader or book in the picture.

You could start a group called, say, "Elderly Readers with Dignity and Gravitas" with images you like. I would join that, too.

Takes all kinds to make a world.

>14 nohrt4me2: My main beef with the image is that, if this is "Readers Over 60," there is no reader or book in the picture.

Agreed. 😊

>9 TeaBag88: So do you feel that the “camp” image will encourage first time visitors to post to this group?

It would never occur to me to join a group because of the picture, even if I were to notice that there was a picture. I join a group because the group's title looks as if there will be content which interests me.

>12 2wonderY: Was it you who suggested that that b & w image was me doing my tax returns some time ago. :)

>17 Novak: And you looked so young then!

LOL I chose that because I thought it was hilarious...not at all like anybody I know or anybody here. But I will look for another! Do you actually think that the picture will cause people not to post? Before I became administrator there were 62 members and averaged 12 posts a week. We are now over 200 members and average 67 posts a week. I don't think the picture matters! It will be a few days before I can look for another one, I'm on vacation until Aug 16.

>19 Tess_W: I thought it was hilarious

For some reason it reminds me of that well known poem:

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me...
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick the flowers in other people's gardens,
And learn to spit...

>20 John5918: Picking other people's flowers and spitting promiscuously when you are an old woman sounds like a great way to give your kids the evidence they need to slap you in a nursing home and take your money.

Hi--sorry to barge in, I'm not a member of your group, but this thread's intriguing title popped up tops on my Talk list and then, funnily enough, I recognised the woman in the picture... she is (or maybe was, she'd be well into her nineties now) Havana's "Granny Puretta", (cigars are "puros"). Her pictures are all over the internet because she poses to tourists for money. In fact, like many people I saw her pictures long before I actually ran into her--and that happened, she was a mainstay in Habana Vieja.

I didn't take pictures nor talked to her but I observed her chiding someone who was taking a picture from afar without paying. She was a great model, striking the most colourful poses by instinct or practice (and possibly based on how much money they gave her), I saw her stop someone from taking a dull picture, changing her posture to be framed in the doorway with feet high up--exactly the image I had seen on the Internet before.

>12 2wonderY: I too really liked the black and white picture and feel it should be reinstated.

If you look closely at the picture you will see that the man's hand is out of proportion with his body. By my reckoning it is eleven and a half inches long!

Another half an inch and it would have been a foot.

>20 John5918: A truly condescending, ageist poem written by a 29 year old who, I gather, always hated the colour purple. The only good news is that despite having produced many books of poetry by the time she died at 85 this is the only poem this poet produced that anyone knows, albeit not by its actual name—-“ Warning.”

>24 booksaplenty1949: I didn’t know all that. I confess I attended a meeting of The Red Hat Society. A lot further along, it would be no problem to reach into my closet for the correct attire.

But this is the poem I’ve always tried to live by:

>25 2wonderY: I’d like to live to be leaner, but otherwise I see the desire to be “outrageous” as rather dated, looking back to enforced “ladylike” behaviour, sexlessness, and other midcentury expectations.

So all of you that complained, do you want to be administrator? First that says "I do" has the job! With all that is going on the world, you want to complain about a picture? Absolutely amazing! I think I'm going to start a group "Readers Over Sixty that have a sense of humor and don't want to complain"

Good lord, I don't need all this drama.

Time to find a different group ...

>22 LolaWalser:

Thanks for that, LolaWalser!

Makes the picture way cooler than I thought!

As I was thinking about joining the group, it was a bit of a deterrent. Its hard enough to be taken seriously by younger generations (and they should all listen to what I have to say dammit!).
Do you remember the exhortation "Dont bring me problems, bring me a solution." So my suggested solution is a wise old owl.

I didn't even know there was a picture!

>1 TeaBag88:
>2 marell:

Which one of you wants to be the new administrator? As Lincoln said (paraphrasing) he who has the heart to criticize, let him volunteer to effect change. So, what say ye?

>32 Tess_W: I’m sorry if I offended you, Tess. That was not my intention and I didn’t know you chose the photo. I think you do a marvelous job as our administrator and I enjoy your discussion topics.

>33 marell:

I didn’t know you chose the photo

For future reference: it's very easy to see who uploaded an image. Click on the image, and you should see the info "Picture uploaded by X on Month Day, Year"

Picture is exceptionally inconspicuous on my device and I didn’t even know there were other pictures until I followed directions in message 34. Having said this, the woman in the picture is not reading and is apparently closer to 100 than to 60, so not sure why it was regarded as appropriate other than the fact that ugly/old women are of course inherently figures of fun.

>35 booksaplenty1949:

apparently closer to 100 than to 60

This group is for "Readers Over Sixty", not "Readers who are Sixty". 100 is "over sixty".

Hey, if you see yourself in her, go for it.

>37 booksaplenty1949: I need you to delete that post, please. The link is inappropriate, as some might construe it as racist. Being racist is not humorous. Being able to see the humor in oneself (of how one is perceived) can be humorous.

>38 Tess_W: Thanks, Tess.

>38 Tess_W: So if I’m Black, I can post this picture, just as you, being old, can post an ageist picture?

An ageist and sexist picture, to be more specific.

Well, one possibility is to take a vote among members of this group. If the people who do not like the picture win the vote, they will be responsible for coming up with other options. Then we do another vote. Does that make sense?

>38 Tess_W: IMO >37 booksaplenty1949: is being victimized here for your amusement.

Why not erase the stupid image and get on with the job?

>44 booksaplenty1949: That’s an excellent choice.

>45 2wonderY: I agree, that's much better. 😊

I just joined this group a month or so ago and that picture of a woman with a cigar was part of the reason I did!

I thought that the people in this group must not take themselves too seriously and that their discussions would contain more fun and fewer flame wars. I for sure didn’t want to listen to some old cranks yell at the kids to keep off their grass and reminisce about walking ten miles to school and home again, uphill both ways.

I liked the sentiment that that picture presented - that these folks were cool and weren’t so constrained by decorum and tradition, that age had offered freedom from the need to fit in, from needing everyone else’s approval. I was looking to hear from folks who offered a more realistic view of life, having gotten over the strictures imposed by society and maybe even hear some nuggets of hard-earned wisdom.

That’s what that picture conveyed to me. Was I mistaken about this group’s members?

>48 TempleCat: Your image of the elderly would seem to predate Boomers, a dominant group their entire lives. I gather that the picture is of a woman who had to sell herself in the same way bearded ladies and conjoined twins did once upon a time. Not my idea of liberation.

>49 booksaplenty1949: Well, I was born *just* before the boomer generation started, but I’ve always associated myself with them (although the Beats, unlike the Silent Generation, do have a certain attraction!) But I don’t see anything in the picture which establishes the context you attribute to it. I only see a woman who flouts convention. Where does it indicate she “had to sell herself?”

Message 22.

>50 TempleCat: Message 22.

>50 TempleCat: “had to sell herself?”

It is polite to read all the posts before posting yourself.

>52 booksaplenty1949:, >53 Jammy1:

I do not interpret >22 LolaWalser: as "she had to sell herself". She's a street entertainer. So are buskers. So's the guy who plays vibes in front of my local Starbucks, and the girl who plays her violin by the Art Institute for tuition money.

You might as well say that anyone working for money "has to sell themselves", which is every employed person everywhere.

Ridiculous.

>29 lilithcat:

Heh, you're welcome. For what it's worth, although I didn't personally interact with her, the impression I got was one of boldness and uncommon vitality.

>49 booksaplenty1949:

Er, that's an extremely unpleasant interpretation of the meagre information I happened to have about the picture. First, the woman wasn't "selling herself" but the opportunity to take her photos. Whether she "had" to do so I have no way of knowing, and I don't see how anyone who didn't actually know her might do so.

FWIW, she came across as a spirited person completely in charge of what she was doing--possibly a professional performer by training, it crossed my mind. There was a sense that she was basking in having an audience.

Anyway, I had posted that information in friendship, never dreaming the woman could end up being abused like this. Whatever people are quarreling about in here, it's not her fault!

>54 lilithcat:

x-post; thanks, lilithcat! Exactly so, she's no different to the people dressed up like ancient Romans in my hometown.

>54 lilithcat: sell herself in the same way bearded ladies and conjoined twins did once upon a time.

The post makes it quite plain what is meant. So yes, you are being "Ridiculous".

>56 Jammy1:

No, that's booksaplenty1949's interpretation. There is nothing in >22 LolaWalser: to support that.

>51 booksaplenty1949: & >52 booksaplenty1949:
I should have also said that I’ve always been a strong proponent of The New Criticism when it comes to literature. Google provides a succinct definition:

“This approaches [ sic ] focuses primarily on the text itself and tends to avoid outside influences such as historical and biographical information. Texts stand alone. Authors have ideas, they write to communicate those ideas, and good readers can uncover the meaning and the author's intention.
https://www.scasd.org › lib5 › Centricity › Domain”

To me, the same applies to pictures, movies, etc.

I had read >22 LolaWalser:, but in my opinion, that doesn’t change the value or the impact of the picture itself. It does describe the circumstance but it does not indicate the motivation of this lady to pose as she does. For all we know, she could be rebelling against society, or maybe she’s out on a toot, or maybe puffing on a big cigar is something her generation and her peer group in that culture at that time did. Maybe she grew up in a family that could account for that behavior. I can’t account for the hat; just bad taste, I think.

It’s a well-taken picture of someone who is a character and it projects an attitude. That may be not be the attitude that members of this group want to espouse. That’s fine, but the background data is irrelevant due to its incompleteness. One doesn’t know (and probably can’t ever know) the full reality behind this woman’s appearance in this picture. Including and interpreting that highly incomplete data to determine the value or appropriateness of the picture is merely the viewer projecting their own biases onto it.

That’s why the picture should be evaluated on its own. It’s an image depicting a complex attitude. From the comments, the criticism of the picture, besides the judgement that she’s ugly, seems to be based on some very limited arcane knowledge of the biography of the model, not what the image actually depicts. Consider, rather, what idea/emotion/attitude is the photographer communicating with this particular image? Is that presentation something that forum members might support?

For me, the answer is yes, I think humorous iconoclasm is absolutely appropriate. I think most people’s cherished beliefs of what it is like to be an elder, a crone, old, are, in an old word, balderdash! And to have a picture that pokes a hole in those biases is delicious!

>53 Jammy1:
Uh, as you can tell I was responding to and quoting >49 booksaplenty1949:. To do so, I obviously had read that entry.

>38 Tess_W:

So there we have it in a nutshell. >59 TempleCat: joined this group because she felt that the picture represented the members she would meet here. Attention seeking, bisexual, 100 year old lunatics.

Not for me, thank you! Colour me .. .. .. .. gone !

Thank you all for your support via the wall on here. There will always be negative people in every group. However, I refuse to let them be downers in this group. If this picture offends you, please leave the group, it's very simple. I don't have the time nor the inclination to put everything to a vote. There are hundreds of groups of LT, go find one that suits your fancy!

However, I will be deleting racist links (after pics are taken), and if reposted I will report it to LT.

As to this picture, I change pics about every 2-3 months. When it is time to change this pic, I will!

Before you cause drama: Do your parents/teachers ever teach you that when you have a problem with something you go to that person, in private, to discuss the issue and not air your dirty linen in public? Mine did!

Have a great day!

>60 Jammy1: You are not even a member of this group! But, bye!

>61 Tess_W:

Thanks, Tess.

>48 TempleCat: I thought that the people in this group must not take themselves too seriously and that their discussions would contain more fun and fewer flame wars.

And broadly speaking, that is the case. In my experience it has been a lively, friendly and fun group which has supported a wide variety of different opinions without any negativity or nastiness. Let's hope it will return to that now.

>63 John5918:
Thank you, John. To a higher extent than usual, my expectations of a genial and occasionally surprising membership have been met. :-)

>63 John5918: From your lips to God's ear...