JANUARY READ - SPOILERS - A Fistful of Sky

Spoilerish stuff goes here for A Fistful of Sky by Nina Kiriki Hoffman.

I am not done by any means, so I probably won't read this thread for awhile, but I read a good chunk tonight because we had a blessedly quiet night at work.

It made my stomach tie up in knots to read what her mother did to her the summer they spent alone. I wanted to throw up. I am so involved in this family I can't believe it. Loving the read so far.

>2 MrsLee: Eugh, yes, I think I remember what you mean. That was horrible, and she didn't even see what she was doing wrong...

I just finished and I want to jot down some notes before I forget. I loved it right up until the very end, then it took a weird and boring twist for me.

I thought the family dynamics were spot on. A family doesn't need special powers to wound thoughtlessly or carelessly and mostly unintentionally. Or if not unintentional, then simply with no knowledge of how deep those wounds can go. I've often wondered how many wounds I've dealt to my children, parents, siblings and so forth not because I wanted to hurt them, but simply because I was thoughtless. I think it may be a mercy not to know. I have been inflicted with such wounds from my loved ones and they have no idea. But like Gyp, I find it best to file those things away, because there is also no one in the world who loves me like my family. Crazy stuff.

Also enjoyed the whole thought process of the "cursing" and such, although, some of it felt too easy, like the way she worked with Flint. Is that right? I didn't really mind, because it suited the lightness of this book. Many provocative ideas. For instance, when style, or self-consciousness of looks was forced upon Gyp, it was a bad thing, but the fact that eventually she was able to see herself as an attractive woman and make the most of those attractions, was an empowering thing.

The end with the whole "what is this creature" dialog that went on and on and on made me impatient. I liked it right up to the end of the family meeting though, the rest sort of went over my head or something. Kind of reminded me of the first LotR movie when they were at the docks and the goodbyes went on and on and on. Eh, enough already.

I just finished it. I was totally absorbed in it, to the point that I had to force myself to go to bed last night, and missed lunch today. The portrayal of the family's relationships was excellent, and Gyp and her siblings were likeable, and their interactions seemed realistic. I did think that the father's character could have been developed a little more. Like MrsLee, I loved it until almost the very end. I was fine all the way through the family meeting, and then... I haven't got a clue what the final scene was about, or how it actually ended.

The writing and situation reminded me very much of Margaret Mahy's books. Elements made me think of The Haunting, The Other Side of Silence, The Changeover, and Alchemy.

>4 MrsLee: >5 SylviaC: Hmm, I don't remember feeling like that about the final scene. Maybe I really should reread. I thought there was like a great reveal at the end?

>6 zjakkelien: If you had a great reveal, I want some of what you were on. ;)

In the GD pub on FB, someone posted a thought that it would be a really great prank for an author to write different endings to their book and watch their fans argue over them. Maybe it has been done!

>5 SylviaC: I too wish the father had been given a larger role. I liked him. I really liked that the strings leading from his wife to him were in his hands. Seemed to me she may have known her weaknesses and thought he would be a safe one to keep them.

OK, here are my thoughts on the ending. Did she fall in love with herself (looked like her, but the story kept saying it wasn't her)? Did she embrace Knowledge (the fact that it was a serpent early in life and then I don't know what)? Did she fall in love with some sort of spirit being (that is my least favorite interpretation)? What the *$@% was that supposed to be?! And where did they float off to? The deep blue sea which was calling? Did they just float around and then come back to shore? It made me feel dense and old.

I just sent it to my daughter for her birthday and told her to read it so she could tell me what it all meant. She's good like that.

>7 MrsLee: And he was the only person that she would listen to. But I felt that he was dismissed for much of the book because he had no magic. I would also like to have seen more of June. At one point it seemed like she might be going to play more of a role in the book, but after that, she only had a couple of passing mentions.

The ending made me feel dense and old, too.

One more mention, the magic system. It didn't bother me, because it suited the story, but I think I prefer Sanderson's magic, or even Jim Butcher's, where there is cause and effect, consequences of using it, etc. This one didn't really have many rules, even the curse magic didn't seem too challenging to get around. More like, if they wanted something, that is the magic they had, even if they didn't know they had it.

>7 MrsLee: Hahaha!

In the GD pub on FB, someone posted a thought that it would be a really great prank for an author to write different endings to their book and watch their fans argue over them. Maybe it has been done!
That is a really funny idea! In this case it's probably just my faulty memory, though... I can't remember anything about people floating off. I really should re-read, I'll see if I can fit it in somewhere...

I seem to be in step with SylviaC and MrsLee on this one. Wonderful portrayal of family dynamics, great heroine, charming story - and then what? That was a very confusing ending and I'm not at all sure what we're supposed to take from it. I actually thought Altria was one of the weaker elements of the book - we never do find out what she is, where she came from, or what her motives are but Gyp doesn't seem to care or even be curious. The uncertainty surrounding Altria made the ending even more ambiguous and confusing.

Up to that point though I really loved the book, even though the main plot is just Gypsum trying to use her gift and causing one disaster after another. But each time she learns something and grows a bit and her relations with her family evolve. I adored the sibling dynamics and the understanding of all those little ways in which people hurt each other without realising. Instead of the actual ending I'd have liked more with the family as they reconcile with each other following the events of the meeting.

The first time the voice calling in the sea was mentioned I thought it was going to turn out to be whales that Gypsum was able to hear, which would have been pretty cool. What the heck was it actually?

Maybe I'll have to make up my own ending to the book ...

I haven't started this one yet, so I'm only skimming, but I wanted to say that the odd ending/lack of ending has been something that's been true for every book Hoffman's that I've read: A Red Heart of Memories, Past the Size of Dreaming, The Thread that Binds the Bones, and The Silent Strength of Stones.

I suppose if I read any more of her books I could just stop at the second last chapter, and pretend there was no more.

I don't have anything different to say about the book than what has already been said. I really enjoyed it, especially for the family relationships and her learning to use her curses. It was pretty amusing. I thought I had found a new author to read. Right up to the end. WTH? And then to hear that all of her books are like that? Nope, not for me. Disappointing. I'll give it a 7/10 stars for the majority of the book. It would have gotten 8/10 stars, maybe even 9/10, I liked it that much, if not for the ending.

What did surprise me was that it was a contemporary fantasy. I thought for some reason that it was a regular fantasy on another world.

Actually, not all of her books are like that, Morphy. I would say that this one andCatalyst are the WTF ones for me. Fall of Light was too, but some people like forest gods and group orgies (Catalyst is aliens and orgies). All the others are good, but I agree that Hoffman tends to write weak endings. However, her characterizations are so good that I keep reading them. Most of the rest fall into one of two story arcs, the Chapel Hollow books starting with The Thread that Binds the Bones, and those featuring Matt (A Red Heart of Memories series, and both are contemporary fantasy. Please don't give up on Hoffman until after you have read at least one of these, Morphy! And by that, I mean these two specific books that anchor the series. Each is a complete story in itself, so there is no drive to keep reading the sequels unless you really enjoy it.

>14 Morphidae: I'm only just starting, so I'll be able to compare better once I reach the end. I'm getting the impression that this is more than "but... what happened next? such and such wasn't really resolved, was it?" from people's comments here, which is how I usually feel with her work... I'll stay out of the spoiler thread for a while, I think.

>15 ronincats: Okay, okay! I'll add The Thread that Binds the Bones to TBR momentarily.

>16 sandstone78: Oh, there's a resolution. Sort of? Maybe? 90%? It's just... odd.

I've just re-read A red heart of memories and am now continuing in Past the size of dreaming. I really like them, and I didn't have a WTF moment at the end, but then again, I can't remember my reaction to the end of A fistful of sky, which probably means it wasn't as ... distinctive as most people's here.

>15 ronincats: Now I'm curious about Catalyst...

I have to say that I am very heartened that no one else had an answer to that ending. I was afraid I was just too dense to get it, but if that's so, I'm in very good company and I'll stay with you!

I'm still gathering my thoughts on this one, so this is going to be a bit long and rambling, but overall, I didn't think the ending was out of left field at all- though it did stop me in my tracks. I swear I spent an entire minute staring at the page at "Marry me," at least long enough that someone in the room with me asked after the "funny expression" on my face- because... you know, that doesn't happen.

Allow me a paragraph of purely personal reaction- if I want a story where heroine ends up in a romantic relationship with a woman, especially one that I haven't heard of, it usually means hours combing tags, small press catalogs, and homophobic negative reviews of books that have more than one woman on the cover- if I went to my local Barnes and Noble right now, I would bet that there might be a copy of Jacqueline Carey's Santa Olivia or Malinda Lo's Ash or Ellen Kushner's The Privilege of the Sword, and that's it, among all of the hundreds of SFF for adults and YA in the store. The last time I went, I looked around and they didn't even have any of the above. Hundreds of books in this genre, zero with happy romantic endings between two women on the shelves.

"Marry me," wow. What a pleasant surprise!

That said, as much as this would have made me happy if it was completely random, I think there was definite foreshadowing of Altria's feelings for Gypsum. I did wonder several times if Hoffman was really building up a romantic relationship between Altria and Gypsum- Altria kept stealing kisses in a way that went beyond "self-acceptance metaphor," the way she flirted with Gypsum's brother as if to see if it made her jealous, and all of the "but remember, I'm dangerous, I could hurt you or leave at any time" while actually protecting, supporting, and challenging her to use her powers and accept herself seemed to fairly scream "paranormal love interest who's in love with you," all of the things that Hoffman in fact lays out in the last chapter, but I managed to dismiss the idea as wishful thinking and reading too much into things.

The reason Altria and Gyp together work for me is that they balance each other well. Ian seems to be a genuinely kind and interesting person, but he's too accepting, and I don't think he'd really ever dig deeper into Gyp's cursing nature or challenge her at all- he just goes along with it. Altria, however, tells Gypsum that her power isn't necessarily "unkind," and Gypsum tells Altria that she knows Altria is the serpent at heart, and both of them understand each other- each in fact may be the only person in the world that can understand the other.

Altria manifested as Gypsum and then another person combined from Gyp's family members to hide her true self- the serpent spirit- from Gypsum, but, I think, since Altria was already family, Gyp's curse that let her know everyone else's secrets showed her Altria's true nature as well- and just as Altria tells Gyp that she doesn't have to do evil (but maybe she should stand up for herself and recognize when she's angry), Gyp reassures Altria that she doesn't have to be evil either, despite her "nature" and all of the things Gyp's family say about her creature, shade, etc. Gypsum understands and accepts Altria's past and nature, and also understands that she's capable of being kind and reliable.

Moving on, as I read it, in the second to last chapter with the family meeting, Altria starts pushing Gyp to recognize that what her family did to her when they had powers and she didn't makes her angry, and they start sharing memories one at a time- the curse there is that they'll understand how they really were to her, instead of their perceptions- evidently Gypsum's father wasn't horrible to her, so there wasn't much for him to be cursed to understand, but I would assume that he realizes But then they use all of the power Altria's stored to curse Gyp with the knowledge of how to use her curse power- so she becomes able to see everything every member of her family would consider a curse, all of their scars and weaknesses and relationships (which presumably she could twist or rearrange or break as a curse). I'm not sure if Gypsum's forgiveness of her family rings true to me- I feel like this would more likely just a step along the way, but the "they're my family" tone seems a bit more final than that.

The sea calling to Gypsum is more of what I expected from a Hoffman ending- The Silent Strength of Stones ends with a similar "called by the elements"/becoming in tune with nature ending, though the magic works differently in that setting (it's element-based, and the protagonist undergoes a shift between magical elements that brings him more in tune with himself).

Other notes, I don't really like stories that set up "oh, the last person with this power died a horrible death!" like Aunt Meta here, and then within mere days the protagonist has everything sorted- but I think Altria and Gypsum having not gotten the full training from her family and internalized the horribleness of how awful curse power was like Meta probably did were big enough differences for me to buy it. Altria has the knowledge of power that Gypsum lacks, and seems to have had a lot more time to think about how to use her "unkind" power- I almost wonder, with both of them being drawn to the sea in the same way, if Altria was originally a person like Gypsum with curse power, and Gypsum will become a spirit or whatever she is?

There's a lot in this book about body image and femininity here as well, that I thought was quite interesting, from the fat scene to the ultra stereotyped "girl role" of the computer's rigidly categorical thinking- all girls are like this- to ultimate fashion sense to Gyp by the end of the story, not quite rejecting femininity so thoroughly but recognizing it's a learned skill rather than innate for her, with Opal as contrast to show some people really are naturally like that, and it's natural for them. It was interesting to see, because femininity is a subject the genre seems to avoid- with many female characters in the genre defining themselves as "one of the boys" distinct from weak "girly-girls," or at most being "tough, but feminine." Maybe this is more normal in the less-action-oriented side of urban fantasy?

I dug out my copy of Fall of Light, curious to read more about Opal, and was surprised to see that it's written in third-person POV rather than first. Gypsum's narration was one of the things I liked most about this one, so while I'll probably more on to Fall of Light eventually I don't think it's what I want to read next.

>20 sandstone78: Oh, lovely thoughtful and reasoned response to the book! Thank you!

I don't know how you'll respond to Fall of Light. It's a lot more heterosexual than this book--heck, a lot more sexual!

>20 sandstone78: Thank you for detailing your thoughts so well. It wasn't the "Marry me" part that I thought was weird. Like you, I thought it was hinting at a possible romance through the story. It was the "off into the ocean" part, and maybe lots of description of lights spiraling or something psychedelic. I don't remember because I simply tuned out that last part. It became "blah, blah, blah, blah" for me.

Wonderful response, sandstone78. You've helped me pull together some different elements of the book.

I think it was the change in style that threw me off. Most of the book had been a domestic, real-world based light fantasy, then it suddenly became more eerie and elemental. The only real hint of the ending that I saw was that one visit to the beach, when Gypsum was swimming. I think my problem was that I thought I was reading one kind of book, which I liked a lot, then it turned into something different.

What MrsLee and Sylvia said. I will, however, go back and reread the last couple of chapters again with sandstone78's comments in mind though. And I do want to try another book by Hoffman; I just wish they were easier to get hold of in the UK.