***Group Read: Within a Budding Grove

Here is the thread for book 2 of Marcel Proust's In Search of Lost Time. Turns out that I will be out of town for the very beginning of September, so I will start the reading on Monday, September 6th.

Part 1: Madame Swann at Home --September 6 - September 27.

Part 2: Place Names: The Place --September 27 - October 25.

I hope to see you here!
--BJ

I'm here and will try to keep up... :)
Thanks for arranging this.

Thank you for helping me to read this book!
--BJ

I finally started the book Within a Budding Grove this evening with the first 20 pages. It was a little of a deja vu when first he could not go to see the play, and then later when it was ok for him to go, he questioned whether he really should go or not. Would it disappoint his parents too much? And I cannot really recall what exactly type of illness he has that things like attending a play could make him sicker.

Also, I noticed that he was trying to write as de Norpois tells him that to be a writer is just as good as being a diplomat. However, he does not think he will ever be a writer. Ha.
--BJ

Whoops! I was thinking we were starting on the 15th...silly me! Hopefully I'll get started in the next couple of days.

You can start on the 15th if you like. I think there is some extra time built into the schedule.
--BJ

Okay, I started this book today...I got to page 40 something.
I almost yelled when I found out that Swann was already married - because I want to know HOW It happened! Just announcing him to be married to Odette felt like a cop-out. But it seems that Proust is going to work in the 'backstory' as the book progresses.

I think that you are ahead of me. I am planning to read some more tonight. One thing that I have found somewhat difficult in these books is figuring out the timeline of things. Proust definitely likes to skip around.
--BJ

I finally caught up to the part where Swann and Odette are mentioned. I thought this quote was kind of interesting:

It is because they entail the sacrifice of a more or less advantageous position to a purely private happiness that, as a general rule, ignominious marriages are the most estimable of all.

Interesting take on things. I was going to read farther tonight as I forgot to read yesterday, but I will wait until tomorrow to read some more.
--BJ

The part that made me upset was on page one of the book, where the narrator's father says something bad about Swann, and the narrator says that his father's changed opinion is because Swann has become the husband of Odette.
Then...nothing further is mentioned until page 40 or so. I thought Proust was just going to leave it at that and I felt like saying "WHAT!? All that buildup of Swann and Odette in book #1 and you're just going to say that and change the subject??" :)

So far, I'm not enjoying this book as much as the last one. But it took me a while to start enjoying Swann's Way too, so I'm hoping this will grow on me.

I'm a bit annoyed with how wishy washy the narrator is. He wants to go to the theatre, his parents say no, he hates his parents for it, then they let him go, then he's not sure if he really wants to go...ARGH!

I'm assuming, from what has been said so far, that Odette had Swann's daughter before they were married, and they were living together before marriage. (And that Odette wanted to marry Swann.) Did you get that impression too?

That was what I thought, too. In the previous book, I thought they had married before having the daughter. Just assumed, I guess.

I was wondering if people like the Narrator actually exist?
--BJ

I found this next part interesting. I enjoyed the discussion of Time. Also, the rehash of the conversation with the Ambassador by Mamma and Father. And then the discussion about how Francoise was going to kill the rabbit for dinner reminded me of the death of the chicken in the first book. Then towards the end of my reading, I see that M. Swann thinks that the Narrator is of low moral standard, not fit to associate with his daughter. Too funny!
--BJ

"Then towards the end of my reading, I see that M. Swann thinks that the Narrator is of low moral standard, not fit to associate with his daughter. Too funny!"

Haven't gotten to that last bit yet, although I agree with you about the rest. Hopefully I'll read another 'chunk' tonight...

So do you think we have an unreliable Narrator? I know that we are only learning bits and pieces out of order, but do you think that he is deliberately hiding something? Sometimes he makes a comment and I think he is meaning something different than what he is saying. And who writes a sixteen page letter to the father of the girl he has a crush on?
--BJ

I'm not sure why he jumps around in time. I was always just told that that's what Proust 'did', and that's one reason many have such a hard time with him. Perhaps he's hiding things to reveal them later at the right moment, or to create suspense. If you come upon an example of him saying one thing and meaning another, could you post it here? I'm curious.

You're right. The letter was weird. Although he seems like quite a sensitive boy who is overly concerned with what the Swann's think of him, and back in those days longer letters were common, so I guess I can imagine him going on and on and trying to 'justify' himself.

It still irks me that we haven't heard the whole story of Swann and Odette yet - how they ended up living together and married when she despised him in the last book. In my reading today I caught a hint that she didn't despise him as much as she seemed to in book 1...maybe she was playing 'hard to get'?

I'm currently up to the part where the narrator is starting to go on outings with Gilberte and her parents.

Do we know what exactly is wrong with the narrator's health? Does he have asthma? Tuberculosis? Just "problems with his nerves"?

I'm starting to like this book a little more than I was last week. But still not as much as Swann's Way.

I think that you are totally right about trying to justify himself, and for what? Playing tag in the park? Maybe he is a stalker! He seems like the overly compulsive type to be a stalker to me.

The whole Swann thing is a mystery.

I don't know what is wrong with his health. They never seem to say, and what is so dangerous about going to a play?
--BJ

Lol! We don't seem to be enjoying this one too much, do we??? ;D

I don't hate it - I don't love it. Like I said, I'm hoping this one grows on me like book #1 did.

I am not loving it yet either. Last night I caught up to the part where the Narrator is hanging out in Gilberte's house for tea parties. The Swann's seem surprising in their capriciousness. Actually lots of characters are like that -- like Mdm. Verdurin, for example. I took the weekend off because I was busy with Church, but I hope to be back on track this week. :)
--BJ

By the way, the symptoms did sound somewhat like asthma, which my daughters have. But the treatment seemed totally off-base and worked. Don't know what to think about that!
--BJ

I am about halfway through part 1. I liked the phrase "the latest turn of the social kaleidoscope." And we are back to the little phrase of the sonata. Interesting that Swann now has a mistress.

I hope to keep up with the reading a little more now that I have finally finished Gone With the Wind.

These people live on gossip, don't they?
--BJ

I'm at the part where the Swanns have a dinner party and Marcel is invited, and he meets his former favorite author Bergotte. I'm specifically at the part where Bergotte and Marcel discuss Berma, the actress.

I haven't figured Gilberte out. Is she a nice person or is she 'wicked'? Sometimes she seems refreshing and charming, other times I'm not so sure. I'm assuming that we will find out.

I'm enjoying it a little more now. You're right - they live on gossip and make HUGE deals out of very small details. :)

Maybe she is just a teenager and changeable. Of course, I accused our hero of being a stalker! And maybe he is just a teenager, too. Do you know offhand what time period we are talking about? The reference last night in my reading to the telephone and aeroplane sort of threw me for a loop. I was thinking they were much earlier in time.

I found it funny that the Narrator's parents wanted to know the names and details of all the people he meets over at the Swanns' house and then rehash the reputations of everyone.
--BJ

Swann on Gilberte:

'You have no idea how kind-hearted she is since she never lets it be shown.'

This cracked me up. :)

I have reached the party with Bergotte, but I have not yet gotten to the discussion of Berma. I think that I will get there tomorrow.
--BJ

I have just reached the part where the Narrator has been taken home from the Swann's by Bergotte.

Here are my quotes from the reading:

'Highly strung people ought always to love, as the lower orders say, "beneath" them, so that their women have a material inducement to be at their disposal.'

That was Swann speaking!

And now from Father:

'My poor boy, you have never had much common sense, but I'm sorry to see that you've fallen among people who will send you off the rails altogether.'

I don't know if I will get anymore read today because of the football, but I will try to read some tomorrow.
--BJ

I'm at the part where the narrator's friend Bloch has started to take him to houses of prostitution. Ugh. Oh, and Gilberte and the narrator have had a 'falling out.' Like we couldn't see that coming, right?

Once in a while Proust says something that is exactly right...I find myself thinking "people really do act like that" and that, for me, is what I like about his writing. I just wish those moments were coming more frequently. But I think I might be rushing through the reading a little too much, since my days have been so hectic. If I was reading more slowly I'd probably enjoy it more.

Sometimes reading it slowly makes me sleepy! :)

Let me know when you get to the end of the first part.
--BJ

I have read through to our hero's visits to Mdm. Swann when he will not encounter Gilberte and the letters that he writes to her that he will not see her, when all the time he only wants to see her. I do not see how his plan will work!

My snippet for the day is:

The time that we have at our disposal every day is elastic; the passions that we feel expand it, those that we inspire contract it; and habit fills up what remains.

The end of part 1 is in sight!
--BJ

You're ahead of me now. :) I can tell you've finished Gone With the Wind! You seem to have a lot on your plate - and you are reading Proust at the same time...good for you!

I will let you know how far I get when I have my next Proust reading session.

I am hoping to finish the first part in the next two days. Then I think I will take a few days off before moving on to part two. What do you think? I think I scheduled part 2 to start on next Monday. Is that a good date for you? Whatever schedule works for you is fine with me.
--BJ

Well, that sounds fine to me. (Sept. 27th) BUT I have no idea how close I am to the end of part 1! I'm reading it on my Kindle, and all I know is I'm about 40% done with the book...(I read another big chunk last night)
Do you know approx. what page the first part ends?

The first part in my book is about 200 pages and the second part is about 300 pages so the first part is about 40% of the book. You might already be there! The last lines of part 1 are (ok the last sentence is super-long, so this is just a fragment):

-- from seeing myself once again strolling and talking thus with Mdm Swann, beneath her parasol, as though in the coloured shade of a wisteria bower.

The beginning of Part 2 is:

I had arrived at a state of almost complete indifference to Gilberte when, two years later, I went with my grandmother to Balbec.

If you want to just keep on going since you are about there, that is ok with me, too. I am hoping to get to the end of part 1 today, but I am not sure if I will.
--BJ

I finished part 1. I thought the comparison of Mdm Swann to the Virgin Mary was over the top.

Let me know what you want to do about the schedule.
--BJ

Nope, I haven't gotten to those lines yet. Will let you know when I finish (hopefully this evening)! Thanks for the help...

I finished the first part!
If you'd like to take a few days off before starting again on Monday, that's fine with me. Lots of other books have been calling to me lately!

When we finish this book, by the end of October, are you planning to try to read book #3 in the series right away? Or do you want to wait and start it in January? Thoughts? Or are you sick of Proust and want to stop reading him altogether, lol!

Personally, I'm not enjoying this one as much as Swann's Way, but I'd like to continue. I'd like a brief break between books, however. January would work for me, but I'm flexible.

You truly are an angel!

I would like to wait until Monday to start part 2, if you don't mind. And I would like to wait until January to start the third book. I just don't see keeping up with this during the holidays at all!

Maybe the second part will be lots better than the first. Our hero certainly does overanalyze things. Seems like it would drive him crazy.
--BJ

36 - Sounds great! Monday for Part 2, and January for Book #3...

That might give me a chance to sneak in the group read of Middlemarch in November...maybe, maybe not! :)

I think you would like Middlemarch.
--BJ

38 - I've always thought so too. Hope we are right!

Well, I almost forgot to pick this back up! But then I remembered and I think that I like this part better than the last part, so far. Our hero has taken the train to Balbec, vacationing with his grandmother. I do think he would drive me crazy.

I was talking to my daughter about these books, and we both think that it would take quite a translator. The language is amazing.
--BJ

I like part two better as well! He's definitely a sensitive young man, that's for sure...

Well, I stopped where they are hobnobbing with everyone at the beach. Funny that Mdm Villeparisis knows more about his father's trip than they do when Mamma writes every single day. I am about halfway through the book. My copy had added paragraphs at the end for some of the pages that had been removed by Proust for some reason.
--BJ

I'm a tiny bit farther that that, but not too much.

The part of my reading that made me laugh...was when that lady at the hotel was making fun of Mlle Villeparisis and her friend, saying she'd discovered they weren't really royalty. He went into a discourse about how each class of people appears to the other. He said that upper class men, on an average day, don't look like upper class, but instead look like a common drunk, and in many cases they ARE, or something like that...lol...

I also think it's amusing how he falls in love with every young lady he sees! This second part agrees with me MUCH better than the first one did...

Mdm Villeparisis is pretty funny with all of her namedropping. And then, this:

And indeed in such moments as this she was not natural; her mind reverted to her early training, to the aristocratic manner in which a great lady is supposed to show commoners that she is glad to be with them, that she is not at all arrogant.

Hilarious! And from the one who is supposed to be egalitarian!
--BJ

It's descriptions like that that make me grateful to be around people who are genuine and 'real'. I can't stand when people are constantly pretending to be different from what they are underneath...although it does make for amusing reading. :)

Marcel's summer at Balbec is my favorite part of what I've read of Proust so far. I've been stalled in Vol 4, Sodom and Gomorrah for several months, so maybe if you all continue on, I'll join you then. I've been enjoying lurking here.

#46 That would be terrific! After this book, we are going to take a break until January for book 3.

#45 I totally agree with that.
--BJ

46- Yay, we have a lurker! That would be wonderful. I'm hoping that if we keep encouraging one another, we can finish Proust one day. :)

I reached the place where Bloch is back in the picture. Nobody seems to have to work for a living, do they?

Here is my quote from this part:

When Bloch spoke to me of the attack of snobbery from which I must be suffering, and bade me confess that I was a snob, I might well have replied: 'If I were, I shouldn't be going about with you.'

I guess he learned that discretion is the better part of valor. In the last book he would say exactly what he was thinking no matter the consequences.
--BJ

I thought that Bloch comeback was a good one, but I'm glad he didn't say it. You're right...he is growing up a bit.

I've fallen behind on this over the weekend. Have a nasty head cold and can't concentrate on harder reads. Hopefully I'll get caught up shortly.

I read some tonight and got to the part with M. de Charlus, who shakes hands with two fingers. I am going out of town later this week (I am pretty sure, but not positive), so I will not be able to read any for those three days. Usually, I don't read any of this on the weekend, but since I was leaving I thought I would read a little.

Take care of yourself and don't worry about catching up. I am always ready for a break. Lots of other stuff to read! I will try to read some on Monday and Tuesday and then see where we are when I get back home.
--BJ

I got a couple of opportunities to read again, and I'm approx. 75% done, according to my Kindle. I think I have maybe 125 pages to go...

How do we compare? Should I slack off, or are you way ahead of me?

I have about 175 pages to go. I haven't picked it up since last Sunday. I just got back in town and don't know if I will read any tonight or not, but I will read some tomorrow. You can keep reading if you like and I will try to catch up. I have this feeling that I need to finish this book soon, or I might lose my bearing with it. I am so glad that you are reading it with me. :)
--BJ

I just got to the part where he is scouting out the Simonet girl. I loved some of the descriptions of the sea. Here is a part:

I went into my room. Gradually, as the season advanced, the picture that I found there in my window changed. At first it was broad daylight, and dark only if the weather was bad: and then, in the greenish glass which it distended with the curve of its rounded waves, the sea, set between the iron uprights of my casement window like a piece of stained glass in its leads, ravelled out over all the deep rocky border of the bay little plumed triangles of motionless foam etched with the delicacy of a feather or a downy breast from Pisanello's pencil, and fixed in that white, unvarying, creamy enamel which is used to depict fallen snow on Galle's glass.

I loved quite a bit of the descriptive parts through here.

I am probably still quite behind. I had a hard time reading yesterday, still tired from all my driving. But I hope that I can catch up soon! :)
--BJ

You're not too far behind! I've been sick for the past two weekends in a row and I'm seriously frustrated about that...so I haven't gotten to do any heavier reading. I might get a little more read tomorrow if I feel a bit better.

That's a great quote, thanks for sharing.

I am glad that I am not too far behind. I think it was a mistake for me to go an entire week without reading. When I started back I was wondering Now where am I? I am alternating this book with a Clancy book. Talk about different!

Hope you feel better soon.
--BJ

I got to read in it a bit today, and I'm now in the home stretch - about 50 pages to go!
The narrator is definitely an adolescent - not being able to make up his mind about which girl he prefers!
This book definitely got better as it went along.

I still have about 120 pages. He certainly drinks alot for an adolescent. Or maybe not. I got to the part with the artist Elstir at the restaurant and ended with the part where he finds the girl and says "It is she." Simonet? The one with the sad eyes?
--BJ

Today I read up to our Hero's visit at the studio of the artist Elstir. His is just about to put the finishing touches on his painting. Some of the descriptions of the art were just beautiful. It reminds me that I have not picked up my copy of Paintings in Proust, not even once! I want to pick it up, but I think I will wait until I finish this book. I still have almost 100 pages to go.
--BJ

The only 'books about Proust' I've read so far is How Proust Can Change Your Life. I read it before I even started Swann's Way. It did help me muster up my enthusiasm for Proust, and I thought it was an easy read. Maybe when we get to the heart of the 7 books, I'll branch out to other Proust related books.

I really, really, really, think the narrator picked the wrong girl. You think he'd know better than to pick someone who was going to make him miserable, just like Gilberte. I think he should have picked Andree. But I guess men like a challenge, so she probably didn't have as much appeal. Let me know what you think when you get to that part.

One thing that has surprised me is how he decides that someone will be his best friend or his girlfriend before he has ever met them or sometimes even before he has even seen them, and then it really happens. Like becoming friends with Saint Loup or even when he was stalking Gilberte and then he ends up going to her house every single day for a long time at her invitation.
--BJ

I noticed that too. I was saying to myself "Wow, things do seem to work out well for him, don't they?"

Speaking of which, he had a few sentences about all the coincidences that worked out for him. No kidding!!!

Here is where I stopped for tonight:

If, instead of misfortune, it is happiness, it may be that not until many years have elapsed will we recall that the most important event in our emotional life occurred without our having time to give it any prolonged attention, or even to become aware of it almost, at a social gathering to which we had gone solely in expectation of that event.

This at the party that he requested that Elstir give so he could meet Mlle Simonet (with one "n"). And not long after he accompanied Elstir to the beach to meet the girls there and then does not approach when they appear. I am trying to figure out exactly what makes our hero tick.

Oh, and how interesting that Elstir has painted Mdm Swann. Does every man know her? I think so.

Still have 80 pages to go. But I liked these 20 pages.
--BJ

Now at last we meet Albertine Simonet, and she does not seem to be a very nice person. Maybe she will change. Our hero enjoys all the female companionship now. I still have 60 pages to go. I guess it is obvious that 20 pages per day is about all I can manage. But the end is in sight!
--BJ

I have read up to the part with the essay about the letter from Sophocles to Racine. This was pretty interesting, I thought. Poor Saint-Loup is getting the short end of the stick. I still have 40 pages to go. I hope to finish this weekend, but if the football is too interesting, then I will try to finish by Tuesday night.
--BJ

I've been sick for nearly over two weeks, and I've had extra time on my hands, so I finished it.

I guess I can understand why he chose Albertine over Andree. Andree understands him, but Andree is too similar to him. With his sickness, he needs to love someone who is full of life and health. However, I still think Albertine is not going to be a good choice for him. Men. An old lady I know would say his "picker" is broken since he can't "pick" a good woman.

Saint Loup does get the short end, but I thought it was interesting when the narrator said he could be himself with the girls, and he felt refreshed after being with him, whereas after being with Saint Loup he felt exhausted. I think I know what he means. Certain friends are more exhausting, and you always need to have some friends who let you relax, laugh, and be yourself. But once he started to love Albertine the narrator probably started exhausting himself again from all the mind games he plays.

Again, just like in Swann's Way, I thought the prose got more beautiful and contemplative right at the end of the book. It's a good thing too, because it makes me want to keep reading, and I need all the motivation I can get with Proust! :)

With you it's football, for us, it will be a baseball weekend!

I am sorry that you have been so sick and I hope that you feel much better soon.

I was in a happy mood after my football game and went ahead and finished, too. I laughed when Albertine pulled the bell to avoid the kiss. She did, after all, warn him! And then when she gave him the gold pencil, I couldn't help but think about "Say Anything" where John Cusack said, "I gave her my heart, and she gave me a pen."

Interesting last line, once again:

And when Francoise removed the pins from the top of the window-frame, took down the cloths, and drew back the curtains, the summer day which she disclosed seemed as dead, as immemorial, as a sumptuous millenary mummy from which our old servant had done no more than cautiously unwind the linen wrappings before displaying it, embalmed in its vesture of gold.

Sounds like time to go, doesn't it?

I quite agree that the Place Names: The Place are the best parts of the books, which is a good way to end and good motivation to keep at it. Also, I looked at the Synopsis and was surprised at how often Albertine appeared in the first part. I guess this is why someone could finish the entire thing and then go back to the beginning. Things have more import once you know what happens later. For myself, I am going to be so happy if I get all the way through.

So we will start the next book in January?
--BJ

January sounds perfect! What's the title of book #3? I've got to hunt for it by then...

I answered my own question: It's called The Guermantes Way.

Sorry that I have been off LT for a few days! I need to go pull out book three, also! See you in January!
--BJ