June Group Read: Exploring the worlds of James H. Schmitz

James H. Schmitz is a science fiction author who wrote from the late '40s through the 1970s. He is best known for The Witches of Karres, but imho has written better works. Here is my bookshelf.


Many of his works, especially his shorter ones, were very hard to find for quite a while, but in 2000 and 2001, Baen published almost all of his oeuvre in a collection of 6 books, seen to the right of the shelf above. The book I would like to feature is Demon Breed, also found in the Baen collection The Hub: Dangerous Territory. Schmitz is known for his kick-ass female protagonists long before they became the current ubiquitous status quo in his stories about Telzey Amberdon, Trigger Argee, and the hero of Demon Breed, Nile Etland.

Gardner Dozois has said, in prefacing the Schmitz tale "The Second Night of Summer", in which humans on the planet Noorhut face an attack from aliens and are, unbeknownst to themselves, saved by the actions of a single woman with psi powers, Granny Wannattel, with the sole help of a friendly alien she calls her pony:

Schmitz was decades ahead of the curve in his portrayal of female characters—years before the Women's Movement of the '70s would come along to raise the consciousness of SF writers (or attempt to), Schmitz was not only frequently using women as the heroines in swashbuckling tales of interplanetary adventure—itself almost unheard of at the time—but he was also treating them as the total equal of the male characters, every bit as competent and brave and smart (and ruthless, when needs be), without saddling them with any of the "female weaknesses"—like an inclination to faint or cower under extreme duress, and/or seek protection behind the muscular frame of the Tough Male Hero) that would mar the characterization of women by some writers for years to come. (The Schmitz Woman, for instance, is every bit as tough and competent as the Heinlein Woman—who, to be fair, isn't prone to fainting in a crisis either—but without her annoying tendency to think that nothing in the universe is as important as marrying Her Man and settling down to have as many babies as possible.) Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Schmitz

Demon Breed is unfortunately not available for Kindle on its own, but seems to be readily available cheaply as a mass market paperback and can be found as an ebook in the collection by Baen, The Hub: Dangerous Territory. Some of his short stories are available on these sites:
https://www.freesfonline.de/authors/James%20H._Schmitz.html
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/24957
The novel Legacy is also available on the latter site.
.
"James H. Schmitz was one of the most popular writers in the John W. Campbell Jr. stable, and The Demon Breed (published as The Tuvela in Campbell's magazine, Analog) offers the Campbell formula in its most exciting and attractive form, with some variations that were Schmitz's trademark. That formula, simply put, was an ethnocentric view of humanity's expansion throughout the galaxy, during which we would encounter aliens that might at first prove nastier or more powerful, but which would eventually succumb to mankind's resourcefulness and combative intelligence. Schmitz's penchant for tough yet vulnerable heroines elevated his work to the top of the Campbell pack, and it is on full display here with Nile Etland, a scientist fighting a one-woman guerrilla campaign against an advance guard of Parahuans, an amphibious race that has clashed with humanity before and may be using an oceanic world as the staging area for a fresh attack. Along with Nile and her assistants -- a pair of highly intelligent mutant otters ready to wreak havoc at a moment's notice -- the novel's greatest draw is the setting: a pelagic world dotted with floating islands of vegetation, an environment as lovingly detailed as any in the genre, where the heroine's scientific knowledge provides the crucial edge against the technically superior invaders." by Steve on Amazon

Participants would be encouraged to read more widely of Schmitz' work, a highly enjoyable activity, but the main focus would be on this short book.

I stated that I didn't think The Witches of Karres was Schmitz' best work, but it is certainly his funniest. The reason I don't think it his best was because the novel is an extension of his novella of the same title published in 1949, and the plot wanders to some extent in the longer version, published in 1966. But it is a lot of fun and I'd love to move on into it with anyone interested after we finish Demon Breed.

There is no strict timeline; everyone is encouraged to drop in and share their thoughts.

Welcome to everyone. So far 16 people beside myself have expressed an interest in participating and I am looking forward to some interaction and discussion about this classic science fiction author.

Placeholder post. *smooch*

I started reading Schmitz in the '60s and kept up until his death. But though I revisited some of the stories when Eric Flint got the reprints going, I am looking forward to visiting his worlds again.

dropping off a star. Just found a nice SFBC edition of Witches so I won't have to "borrow" my wife's treasured copy, when you get to Witches. Since I re-read Demon Breed relatively recently I probably will not re-read again. It is such a good story tho ...

Added this to the group wiki!

Local library does NOT have any James H. Schmitz works, bummer.

If I were to BUY one, which one would you recommend as his best work?

Starred! Now to find my copy.....

Got it. Went for the Kindle version of The Hub: Dangerous Territory. It took me forever to see the little seal on the front of the cover that said Baen!! LOL/ Only $5.38.

>7 fuzzi: Legacy is free on the Gutenberg site, fuzzi, and it is a full-length novel. And to buy, I would go for the Baen compilation containing Demon Breed, the one Kim just got.

I tend to use my tablet for most of my ebook reading now, but I just realized that I probably have most or all of the Schmitz ebooks on my old nook that I still use sometimes. Way back when Baen was a pioneer in ebooks and offered many at low cost (or often free for first in a series). Then I remembered the Baen CD's that came with the paper books - and I have quite a few of them, 8 or 9 maybe - if any readers have baen books that came with the CD's they could check to see if they have Schmitz on their copies. There's also this reference: http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Schmitz%2C%20Jam...

Thanks for the suggestions, I will see if I can get a copy of Legacy. Why does the touchstone list it as A Tale of Two Clocks? Hmm.

>10 RBeffa: Thanks for that link, Ron.
>11 fuzzi: That is an alternative title (perhaps the original?) for the same book, fuzzi. And I would still strongly recommend either Demon Breed (in The Hub: Dangerous Territory or by itself) or The Witches of Karres as a better starting point.

The Baen CDs are online (by permission), available to download at http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/ . The first five Schmitz books edited by Flint are on the first CD, Honorverse; Witches of Karres is on the last, 1635 : The Eastern Front. The only one left is the book that's on Gutenberg (Legacy/Two Clocks). So Schmitz away!

Okay, that's something I never would have known, because when you look at the CD through the Browse feature, they don't show up. So I've downloaded the Honorverse CD and indeed, the first 5 books are on there in various formats, including .doc and .rtf. The .prc is for Kindle, right?

Answering my own question, yes, it is. Transfer the .prc files to the Documents file of your Kindle when attached to your computer and you will have the complete copies of the books with a functioning table of contents!

On the CD index, it's under Friends of Honor. I actually found it through the link RBeffa gave - very non-obvious on the CD!

Heh - I used .prc on my Palm, which I believe I was still using when the first CD came out (yes, I hung on to it for a long time). Neat that it works on Kindle.

It's June!! Time to start reading! Let me know what you are reading and where you are!

>13 jjmcgaffey: the zip and other files won't open on my iPad. Bummer.

>14 ronincats: On the instructions for sending to Kindle it didn't mention .prc, but said that .pdf could be converted to Kindle format (.azw). So I'm trying to save .doc as .pdf and seeing if that works. It does, if in a basic way.

>18 fuzzi: The zip files opened on my iMac using the utility Archive Utility. It may be a tablet can't do it, or you may need to put that utility on your tablet to do it. I think the utility was part of the regular Mac setup so should be a free Apple app.

>19 quondame: The .prc file works fine, the same as a .mobi file for the Kindle, and preserves the links enabling the table of contents to work, which I don't think will happen with an .pdf file.

>20 ronincats: Thanks!, oh! well wait!.....

Amazon/Kindle just rejected the *.prc file I sent:

The following document, sent at 08:46 PM on Sat, Jun 01, 2019 GMT could not be delivered to the Kindle you specified:
* Telzey_Amberdon.prc

The Kindle Personal Document Service can convert and deliver the following types of documents:
Microsoft Word (.doc, .docx)
Rich Text Format (.rtf)
HTML (.htm, .html)
Text (.txt) documents
Archived documents (zip , x-zip) and compressed archived documents
Mobi book

I don't read much science fiction but have been interested lately in expanding my genres so am going to hop on the group read. I went with the Kindle version.

>21 quondame: WTF???? Okay, I downloaded the CD.zip of Honorverse from Jenn's link. When I opened the Honorverse file on my computer (after unzipping it), I open The Hub folder and see all the different versions, and the .prc version actually had a book icon with an A on it. When I connected my Kindle to my computer with a cable, that is the file I moved to my documents folder, and it opened on my Paperwhite with no problem. At least there are also .doc and .rtf versions to use with the kindle personal document service, which I did not encounter at all.

>22 witchyrichy: Welcome, Karen!

>23 ronincats: I'm doing the email to name@kindle.com route, which would account for a raft of differences.

>21 quondame: Susan, you may want to try the program Calibre. https://calibre-ebook.com/ With it, you can convert most books to other types of books, except for some that have DRM. You can't convert most mobi/kindle docs, but you can convert to mobi/kindle and download or email to your kindle.

I'm in. I had originally bought a used mass market paperback copy cheaply, but it is so yellowed and has an advertising postcard in the middle (which annoys me). I've been afraid if I tried to take the postcard out that the book would fall apart, so I just purchased the Kindle version that Roni mentioned above. I may try to download some of the others from Baen that Jennifer mentioned.

.prc is actually a compressed file - but apparently the email-to-Kindle service doesn't recognize it. Phooey on them.

So in order to circumvent my "I don' wanna!", I picked up my e-copy of The Hub: Dangerous Territory (instead of my paper copy of The Demon Breed), and started reading from the beginning, starting last night (May 31st). I found that I know some of the stories, but mostly not! So this read will count as a BOMB, for Demon Breed if nothing else. I haven't gotten to the novel yet, still reading short stories. My, Schmitz can do inventive aliens/alien animals! And he tends to blend those two...

June already! Signing in.

Amazing! I downloaded from the Baencd website with no trouble at all & can start *Demon B* immediately. I'm thrilled to have access to all that Honorstuff, btw.
Thanks, y'all!

I'm here, and game, though rather confused with all the technical cast. I will buy a copy of The Hub for my kindle, and try and get hold of Legacy somehow because that sounds great! Looking forward to reading some of these works when I've figured out the best way to get hold of them!

Checking back in to say Legacy is also on that compilation, isn't it? It looks like it is, so I'll just buy a copy of that and my problems will be solved!

Well, I ate up Demon Breed (does that sound weird?) Thanks for organizing this, Roni. I loved Nile's resourcefulness, plus the clever ways she drew on the planet's resources. The P's (Parahuans? Tough one to remember/spell) conclusion that it was scarier if Nile was simply an accomplished and capable human being, rather than a super-being Tuvela, was funny and apt. I also liked that the unpredictability of humans was a primary strength. And I'm a pushover for otters!

>31 jnwelch: I'm so glad you enjoyed it Joe. One of my favorite stories of my late teens that held up extremely well on a re-read a couple years ago. I wish the story had kept the original title of "The Tuvela".

My husband found several paperback volumes of Schmitz under a pile of brodarts on a bottom shelf in a second layer of books. Mostly the reprints, so my memory of buying them isn't a figment, which feels good.

I gave up on the free links, bought a Kindle copy of The Hub.

Since it's now in my Kindle library, I can read it on my iPad.

>31 jnwelch: Yup, that sounds weird ;0)

>33 quondame: Yay!

I somehow got the idea that this group read was happening in July! I have The Witches of Karres on my Kindle so will be reading that but I may be getting a late start. Looking forward to being introduced to a new-to-me author.

I've finished The Hub now, so I've read Demon Breed - nice! I agree with >31 jnwelch:'s spoilered comments... I also enjoyed the other stories in the book, including another Nile Etland story. I'd read _one_ of them. Now I need to read the other compilations to see if I've missed more - I'm pretty sure I've read all of Telzey, but the Trigger and the mixed book may have more that are new to me.

I've started reading The Demon Breed. I'm very amused by the cover on the book I bought from Ammy.

When I was working in a bookstore while I was in college in the early 70's, literally *ALL* the SF had covers like this. We had a whole wall of covers with women who were bravely fighting with very few clothes, and what clothes they had were in peril of falling off altogether in the next moment. Had the artist ever seen an otter?

I've got the same cover, on my paperback - the more modern one on The Hub is considerably better as regards the otters. Still has nearly-naked woman, though...



Admittedly, Nile does textually spend most of her time in swimming clothes, not much described. And climb belt, which is also shown on the older cover. I suspect the artist got told "mutant, intelligent otter" and assumed humanoid. Huh, looking at the newer cover - the otter is still grabbing on to a stick, though the "hand" is far more similar to actual otter paws than on the older cover.

>32 RBeffa:. Thanks, Ron. I’m glad you liked it, too. The Demon Breed does hold up well, doesn’t it. It’s disappointing when an old favorite gets dated and loses its pizzazz.

I first read The Demon Breed as “The Tuvela”, in Analog when it was first published. Illustrations by John Schoenherr, who could, I’m sure, have done a better cover than either of those. I’ve re-read it fairly recently and I agree that it holds up well. The Schoenherr cover for Part 1 of “The Tuvela” is here: https://www.tor.com/2011/02/23/john-schoenherrs-the-tuvela/.

Hey, sorry, group, to disappear--had a migraine drop in! But I'm back and delighted to hear from you.

>24 quondame: As long as you end up with a copy, Susan; that's the important thing.
>25 rretzler: Glad to hear you ended up with a readable copy, Robin.
>26 jjmcgaffey: Glad your contrary streak didn't interfere, Jenn.
>27 humouress: Got you recorded, Nina. Hope you have found a copy.
>28 LizzieD: Peggy, I didn't think you were going to participate!! Glad to hear differently.
>29 HanGerg: Good luck, Hannah. Hope you can manage to download some of the free stuff.
>30 HanGerg: Legacy is in Trigger & Friends and also on the Honorverse cd.
>31 jnwelch: I knew you would enjoy it, Joe. I'll get some book discussion going tomorrow.
>32 RBeffa: Me too, Ron.
>33 quondame: Great, Susan!
>34 fuzzi: Glad you have a copy, fuzzi.
>35 humouress: Nina!
>36 DeltaQueen50: No problem, Judy.
>37 jjmcgaffey: Flint actually calls Trigger Schmitz' most well-rounded and well-developed character, Jenn.
>38 streamsong:, >39 jjmcgaffey: Aren't those covers something?
>40 jnwelch: Agreed, Joe.
>41 haydninvienna: Glad to meet you, Richard, and have you join us! Even in the cover you reference, the otter is holding a stick. And I can't remember it doing that in the text...

The Universe Against Her by James H Schmitz, finished June 6, 2019, 2 1/2 stars



Stories about telepaths and psi powers could hardly be avoided in science fiction and fantasy in the 50's and 60's and that topic lost interest with me rather quickly in retrospect. It probably explains why I never read this book from 1964 despite liking the author a lot. This story begins with a 15 year old girl described as a genius who is developing telepathic abilities with her pet "cat", a rather unique creature found as a kitten who has grown into something like a chameleon mountain lion. But Tick-Tock, the "cat", is an intelligent companion to the star of this show Telzey Amberdon. Unfortunately after about the first quarter of the book this part of the story which could have gone in interesting directions is done and we move on to the girl with super psi powers. There's an unclear description of how these telepathic powers come to life. The next thing you know Telzey is modifying her cranky aunt into a nice person and exploring the minds of fellow students, a dog and an ET. It is no surprise to me that we might soon have "the universe against her." However most of the book concerns a plot on the life of a friend and fellow student. Honestly I got bored with it very quickly.

Some editions of this book apparently contain several extra short stories but my older Ace paperback was just the single novel.

Eric Flint writes in one of his editorial bits that he considers Trigger Argee and Nile Etland (but only two works written with latter) much more complete protagonists than Telzey. She is so atypical and very much a loner despite some interactions with Trigger. Here are some of Flint's words on the subject:

Trigger Argee is, without a doubt, the most well-rounded character that James H. Schmitz ever produced. Unlike Telzey, she does NOT possess extraordinary psi powers...For the most part, Trigger makes her way by virtue of those basic human characteristics of intelligence, courage, tenacity, and a fierce sense of principle...There is none of the solitary splendor about Trigger that there is about Telzey. She is sometimes hot-tempered, frequently sarcastic and witty, always stubborn--and occasionally childish.

From the "Afterword" to TNT: Telzey and Trigger

>42 ronincats: Well, one does hold a bomb or two.... But yeah, the magazine cover is by far the best otters. And she's _still_ in a bikini!

Looking forward to Trigger. I'm still trying to hold off, though...trying to read more BOMBs this month.

>43 RBeffa: I read Telzey when she was a little bit older than I was - so I still read it through rose-colored glasses. Though I do agree that the plot against Gonwil is far less interesting than Tick-Tock, and her magical expansion of psi gets a little...simplistic?...after a while. I just (re)read the Baen Telzey Amberdon, which includes those stories and several more (Star Hyacinths, for one - not Telzey, but Dasinger the detective is the protagonist there).

>45 jjmcgaffey: Dasinger was interesting in his small part and would seem worthy of a short story or more of his own if done well.

>45 jjmcgaffey: Textual evidence says that Nile stripped off her coveralls and was in her swim briefs when she left the aircar. Also, Nile reflects to herself in what Koll is viewing after she captures him as such, "Nile had a mental picture of herself--lean, next to naked, smeared with colorful plant sap." It also says Sweeting is 7 and one half feet from nose to the tip of her muscular tail, so the proportions in >38 streamsong: would seem to be off. However, all the covers cited so far appear to be more accurate than my Ace H-105 version (60¢), seen below. And yes, it has the cardboard advert in the middle telling you that you can get the two-volume Treasury of Great Science Fiction for only 10¢ if you join the Science Fiction Book Club!



I'll grant you there is a lot of greenery in the background, but that is the most cumbersome swimming gear I've ever seen!

Our local library system once had several Schmitz books on the shelves, most notable to me was Legacy and The Demon Breed. Then they purged them three years ago. I posted this to my own thread back in 2016, when I rescued a SFBC copy of the purged Demon Breed at the friends sale. The cover of the hardback is pretty much the same as the cover of the paperback Roni just posted.
. As I recall I also picked up the old Ace 40c paperback I just read at>43 RBeffa: at the same sale.

>31 jnwelch: Just a clarification, Joe. That wasn't the conclusion of the Parahuans, but of one of their putative allies, the Lords of the Sessegur, Chiefs of the Dark Ships, in replying to a Wirrollan delegation urging a unified attack on the Federation of the Hub. The Sessegur evaluation is undoubtedly more realistic and accurate than that of the Parahuans.

>48 RBeffa: Nice, Ron!

I finished reading The Demon Breed yesterday and enjoyed it. I liked Nile and her resourcefulness and intelligence so much that I immediately read the short story, Trouble Tide, which I also enjoyed, but not quite as much. It struck me while reading The Demon Breed that Nile's character could have been written as male rather than female. There were no overtly stereotypical feminine characteristics associated with Nile, and I thought that rather refreshing, especially for a book written in the '60s. On the other hand, in Trouble Tide:

A few minutes later, he was easing Nile Etland's PanElemental off the landing terrace and into the air, fingering the controls gingerly and not without misgivings, while the doctor took care of her makeup.

and

She loosened her hair, fluffed, shook and stroked it into place.

Sigh...

I liked Schmitz's world-building. I found the various flora and fauna very interesting, although at times I felt they were used a little too frequently to get Nile out of trouble. There is no question that Nile used those resources wisely to get her way out of various situations, but it started to become a little too much for me. There just happened to be just the right plant or animal on the spot just when she needed them. I also thought that the story was a little too abrupt. Perhaps I've been reading too many "chunksters" lately, but I found myself wanting a little more build-up in the story. It started rather abruptly, and continued that way, and ended abruptly as well. At first, I was a little lost with Ticos and the Palachs until there was a little more backstory, which seemed spread throughout the story. It read more like an extended short story to me, and I found myself wanting more.

Some of the descriptions of Great Palach Koll reminded me a little of a miniature Yoda - just a little, though.

...he was a wrinkled miniature, not much more than a foot high. Cloaked and hooded, he looked like a shrunken mummy. But he could move like springing steel. Ticos had seen Koll leap eight feet...

His dark cowl and cloak were of utilitarian material...his influence on them was very strong.

>32 RBeffa: >40 jnwelch: I totally agree that this story holds up well. Nothing in it that dates it at all, which I can't say about all scifi from the '60s.

Thanks for organizing, Roni. This is another author that I will put on my reading list.

I found copies of The Demon Breed and Trouble Tide online for anyone interested.

The Demon Breed is here: http://baencd.freedoors.org/Books/The%20Hub/0671319841__10.htm

Trouble Tide is here: http://baencd.freedoors.org/Books/The%20Hub/0671319841___9.htm

I suspect that the other stories/books from the CD are online at baence.freedoors.org as well. I found them when I found the James H Schmitz Fandom Wiki. It doesn't have much information, but it does seem to have links to the online books.

If you have a Kindle, you can use the Send to Kindle plugin available on most browsers to send the page to Kindle as an ebook file. Works beautifully - I send a lot of Tor.com short fiction to my Kindle that way. If you're not aware of it - the link is here.

Also, via ISFDB, the cover from Analog SF where Demon Breed was originally published in serial form is:



I think Jennifer mentioned that it was the best cover, and I have to agree!

I just finished reading Demon Breed through a second time, and still find no text evidence of a stick in an otter's hand. Bombs, yes. Maybe it's a symbol that they are sentient?

Hmm, Robin, Trouble Tide was published in 1965, The Tuvela in 1968. The latter, as Ron commented above, was not atypical of the length of most science fiction books of the time, although on the shortish side to be sure at 153 pages. Most I remember, like those of Andre Norton were right around 200 pages. Maybe there was so little sexual typing because the book's action takes place in the wild, as it were, and not where the scientist Etland would be interacting with "civilization" as in offices and professional meetings. I paged through to see what Jath was wearing when we encounter her--"a brown-skinned girl, dressed down for the weather like the crewmen." So I went up to the description of the crewmen--"in swimming gear, muscular naked backs glistening in the slashing rain..." Mmmm!

I finished reading Demon Breed, too. I haven't read a lot of science fiction, and especially from the era, so I don't have a lot to compare it to - but I thought the opening quote by Gardner Dozois that Roni used in the first post was very apt:

" heroines in swashbuckling tales of interplanetary adventure—itself almost unheard of at the time—but he was also treating them as the total equal of the male characters, every bit as competent and brave and smart (and ruthless, when needs be) "

I was a big (fifth grade) fan of the original Star Trek episodes, which my brother and I eagerly awaited every Friday night. The few women depicted couldn't have been more different than Nile. Can you imagine her putting up with Kirk's BS?

I've really enjoyed all the cover art everyone has shared. I especially like the one in >51 rretzler:. The stick doesn't bother me, since I think otters are quite manipulative with their hands - abalone shells and all that. It almost looks like a scepter with that little knob at the top. When I blew up the page to look at cover details the otter in >39 jjmcgaffey: is also holding a stick. I think both indicate 'not your average otter'.

>52 ronincats: My hardback of Demon Breed ends on page 190. I went searching for my wife's paperback copies and she has two of them, one an Ace and one a 35p 1968 British orbit. They both end on page 157. The British cover is this (the cover wraps around to the back with the ocean scene):

>52 ronincats: >53 streamsong: Exactly - I am totally in agreement with Dozois about Schmitz's female characters as it relates to Nile and her non-stereotypical femaleness. I don't think that this has anything to do with Nile being in the wild, but all to do with Schmitz's portrayal of women. When I think about other '60s sci-fi authors, as Dozois says, none of the female characters compare to Nile, and most authors didn't really even tackle female characters - including my beloved Asimov and Le Guin (not saying that there weren't female characters, but they were not major characters.)

They were kesters too, but wingless giants: sea-havals, engaged in filling their crops with swarms of skilts.-- My favorite thing in the book to date is the bits he leaves explanationless.

Woo! I stopped at our town's ONLY used book store after work today, and snagged both Legacy and The Witches of Karres. I had store credit, so I didn't actually spend any money.

I've just finished the Original Edition of Edited Schmitz Stories - I read most of them along with Flint's version, but haven't yet read the edited versions of Planet of Forgetting (which Flint changed the name of, he mentioned) or Legacy. Neither of which I had read in the original version - I'm finding that I had read far less of Schmitz than I thought I had! The book also contains (some of) the edited Telzey stories - the ones that Flint felt he'd made substantial changes. I didn't see much of said changes - aside from changing "tapes" to "chips", which will probably look just as dated in a few years... It also contains Star Hyacinths, which did get some noticeable changes and I think they were improvements. Moving stuff around made for a much smoother read, without changing the actual content of the story at all.

>57 fuzzi: Wotta win!

>55 rretzler: I did mention one thing in my review - the short story with Nile ends with her being extremely upset about being fat (it's a side effect of a really weird event), while her (male) partner apparently doesn't care. Why? I can't make that make sense in any way other than "girls want to be thin and beautiful". Grump.

Legacy has several similar bits - men drooling over Trigger, and Trigger being uncertain of her looks/her clothes. Some of the former is to establish said men as villains (mostly of the pathetic type, but still), but some of it isn't - the school administrator spends some time discussing Trigger's "shape" (with another woman, at that), for instance. Why? Fan service? Author service? Author blindness ("don't girls always think that way, even the ones who can outfight most men?")? Ick.

"She was frightened; and knowing that now of all times she couldn't afford to be frightened simply was making it that much worse. For moments her thoughts became a shifting blur of anxieties. She tried to force them back to what she would say to the Everliving, to anticipate questions to which she must have answers. It didn't work too well. But the physical reactions faded gradually again."
--This is how one writes a real Hero. Schmitz makes Nile a genuine, no-holds-barred Hero in Demon Breed and I enjoy it.

Okay, I'm working my way through Legacy, and after 70 pages am wondering if it's ever going to go anywhere?

Did I just pick the wrong Schmitz for my first try?

I enjoyed it quite a lot, though it does start slow - Trigger's frustration about being on the university planet/campus is actually pertinent, later. And all kinds of weird things happen in the not-too-distant future.

He does spend some time setting the stage for the rest of the story, in most of his - "some time" may be a page or two, or several chapters.

I have no idea how Legacy would strike me as my first Schmitz, though, so...maybe? Hang on and finish it, it's not that long a book and I suspect you'll get hooked shortly.

>61 jjmcgaffey: thanks. One of my favorite scifi authors CJ Cherryh starts slow, so I didn't want to give up too soon.

I'm here at last and the month isn't over. I have an old library book -- the hardcover with the cumbersome scuba or whatever gear. Very sedate, really. Can't wait to start!

I gave The Demon Breed 3.5* and reviewed it on the book's page. It's got a surprisingly advanced attitude and is prescient about its cosmology.

Hey there, I just found this group and starred it. I'll pull out my copy of The Demon Breed and get cracking. My copy has the same cover as streamsong's (@38).

As a total aside, I browsed a Barnes & Noble today between my appointment and my meeting and found a recent reissue of The Word for World Is Forest. I was excited to find it because I've wanted to read that story for ages. They also had a 2-volume hardcover edition of the Hainish cycle of stories with lovely maps on the inside. But too expensive for me.

Now back to Schmitz and Nile and otters!

I think what I am finding most interesting in this reread of The Demon Breed is paying attention to the appearance of "gromgorru" through the story.

>66 justchris: Seems like one of those hippy-70s concepts that should've stayed around to me. "Grok" wasn't the only good coinage from the era.

>67 richardderus: Ha! I just used grok in a sentence yesterday.

Well, I finished my selection, but I wasn't impressed by my first Schmitz. The book had a couple plot twists that I found interesting, and a fairly strong female lead, but it struck me as standard SciFi/Fantasy of the 60s and 70s. I also kept guessing (correctly) what would happen next.


Legacy by James H Schmitz

Fairly standard scifi work with two-dimensional characters. There were some interesting plot twists, and a strong female lead. Entertaining.

I have Demon Breed on my iPad and will probably give it a chance, but not this month.

I am late but have finished reading The Demon Breed. I haven't read science fiction for a long time, and it took me a bit to get into the strangeness of the world and its various inhabitants. But, in the end, I enjoyed it and may try a few of the other stories in the version I bought for Kindle or recommended above. It was refreshing to have a strong, resourceful female character. And, I found it intriguing that, after making up all sorts of animals, flora and fauna, Schmitz chose oversized otters as her fellow warriors. That may have been what kept me reading, actually, as I was floundering early on.

I will be figuring out a way to work gromgorru into my vocabulary some time soon!

Thanks for organizing this as I would probably not have found Schmitz on my own.

I have finally started my read of The Witches of Karres and I am pretty sure that I am in for a fun ride. Lots of action and lots of humor and a young space captain that has no idea what these three children are capable of getting into!

sf ***1/2
The Demon Breed James Schmitz

Classic sf, very action and problem-solving oriented, but with a difference -- Schmitz's protagonist is a capable young woman who, while she has help from an older scientist (male) and her genetically engineered talking giant otters pretty much saves her home planet from an invasion by a rigidly hierarchical froggy alien race by her wits, skill, and knowledge of the floating forest environment. As with much of the writing of this period though, there is zero character development. In this case it results in, not so much a female protagonist, but a gender-neutral one. You could, with no change in the story, substitute 'he' for 'she'. Even her name Dr. Nile Etland is gender-neutral. (Elsewhere another character near the end is a 'she' named Wyll.) Men tend to have more obviously male names, Dan and so on, but they talk and behave no differently than Nile. That in itself is thought-provoking. You couldn't get away with it if you actually paused and had people interact the way people normally do, sit down and have a meal together and talk about this and that, or whatever. Did I enjoy it? Enough. Was I enthralled? No, it took me longer to read than it should have as there was so much relentless action I had to take breaks -- otherwise I simply stopped paying attention to the details of Niles' strategies. As with all classic sf, worth reading to understand how the genre has developed. Without a doubt Gene Roddenberry, for example, read Schmitz and incorporated ideas from him in the Star Trek series. ****

Back to add that >70 witchyrichy:'s comments on the richness of the flora and fauna is excellent, I thought it as a I read -- but didn't include that in my comments above. That is the best part of the book, the descriptions of the world. -- And the giant talking otters, duh!

The question that keeps coming to my mind is what caused Schmitz to have women protagonists? Any ideas Roni?

I have finished my read of The Witches of Karres and I totally enjoyed this fun story:



The Witches of Karres by James H. Schmitz is a science fiction novel about a young space ship captain who rescues three sisters who were being held as slaves. He then finds himself getting involved in one wild adventure after another as he comes into contact with alien invaders, space pirates and his own magical powers.

The three little girls are witches from the planet of Karres, after returning them to their home, the captain’s adventures continue and one of the witches accompanies him. It’s quickly apparent that she is the brains of the operation, despite being only 10 years old. They are able to induce the powerful Sheewash Drive that can instantly transport their ship to a different location, but this is also what is attracting the attention of others, all of whom want to have this magical technology for themselves. As they travel through the dangerous space wilderness of Chaladoor they encounter many page-turning challenges.

The Witches of Karres was originally published in novel form in 1965, this edition has been slightly edited to remove certain dated references but it is still full of action, adventure and humor. This isn’t a book with a deep message or philosophy, it is simply a good old fashioned space opera that doesn’t take itself or it’s science too seriously.

I did get to fit one volume of Schmitz into this month's reading The Hub: Dangerous Territory



Very lightly dated stories of human ingenuity against both aliens and other humans and presenting intriguing alien environments and species through the lens of how they can be used to combat encroaching aliens or humans. Unusually for their time, the female leads are distinguished only by the details of their descriptions from the male characters.

Late to the party, but I've finished Demon Breed and liked it a lot, for reasons that have largely been mentioned: the clever, competent hero, the well-imagined world, and oh the otters .... I quite liked the prose, which does exactly what it needs to do and stays out of its own way.

I got the "Dangerous Territory" volume (and paid for it before reading about the Honorverse CDs), so I'll return to this universe sometime soon.