Standalone Group Read - September - Thorn by Intisar Khanani

Thorn is a retelling of the fairy tale The Goose Girl. I've been wanting to read this one for a little while, since seeing a review praising the complexity of some of the characters- I saw a hint of this in Khanani's shorter work Sunbolt which I read last year, and am hoping to see more here in a longer work.

Princess Alyrra has never enjoyed the security or power of her rank. Between her family’s cruelty and the court’s contempt, she has spent her life in the shadows. Forced to marry a powerful foreign prince, Alyrra embarks on a journey to meet her betrothed with little hope for a better future.

But powerful men have powerful enemies—and now, so does Alyrra. Betrayed during a magical attack, her identity is switched with another woman’s, giving Alyrra the first choice she’s ever had: to start a new life for herself or fight for a prince she’s never met. But Alyrra soon finds that Prince Kestrin is not at all what she expected. While walking away will cost Kestrin his life, returning to the court may cost Alyrra her own. As Alyrra is coming to realize, sometime the hardest choice means learning to trust herself.

Reviews indicate that this one may be a bit darker than the summary suggests, and that the romance is not, as it may initially appear, insta-love. I think this one has a lot of potential- I know there's another popular retelling of this fairy tale, Shannon Hale's The Goose Girl, but I've not read it and I'm not really familiar with the source either. It may be an interesting comparison for those who have, though!

Bought it this morning...

I won't be reading along, but that cover is lovely. I noticed it somewhere else and it caught my eye enough to read the synopsis. Beautiful work.

I've already read it, so I'll be lurking on the thread. I'd agree with the reviews that it's darker than the back suggests.

I don't think I could compare it to Shannon Hale's version very well - I have too many fond childhood memories of The Goose Girl to be objective.

I read the synopsis of the fairy-tale on wikipedia yesterday, and it's quite gruesome... So I would not be surprised if the book were darker then the blurb suggests.

I'm a bit of the ways in, and finding it interesting so far. The tone and the prose remind me a lot of Zoe Marriott's The Swan Kingdom which I enjoyed. The switch has just happened.

I think it's fairly obvious that the mysterious sorcerer was the Prince, so I'm hoping that doesn't stay as a mystery for that long. I'm curious about what Alyrra did to Valka to ruin her chances at marriage- I am not sure whether Valka is going to have a legitimate grievance or it's going to turn out she's as shallow and vapid as Alyrra thinks she is (it's already come up that she only cares for trinkets etc).

I'm not really buying Menaiya as anything but unambiguously good at this point, despite all of the "but maybe they are just looking for a princess who is expendable," but I suspect that may change if we get more of the Lady's backstory and her grievance with them. I'm liking the white talking stallion a lot, and I can readily believe Alyrra not being very conflicted at not being a princess any more- but I suspect her conscience will eventually get the better of her.

>3 Bookmarque: It is nice isn't it! An improvement over some of the previous versions- see the one at the review I linked for example. I'm not a big fan of photographic covers in general though.

>4 pwaites: >5 zjakkelien: I've not read the synopsis, but I'm aware of at least one character death coming up that I was disappointed to hear about.

>3 Bookmarque: >6 sandstone78: Totally agree about the covers! The current one is very nice, but the one in that review is a monstrosity. That would certainly not induce me to pick it up...

Just got the kindle version; it will be my next read in that format.

>7 zjakkelien: Having looked at the review, I agree - that was a ghastly cover!

I picked this up on Kindle a couple of days ago. I just started; I'm about 20% in.

I'm not very happy with the "good sorcerer vs. evil sorceress" juxtaposition -- it seems a little too much like "wicked is women's magic" for my taste, especially since the heroine makes it clear, "I am no sorceress" (the implication being that the word is an insult). This is a disappointing contrast to Hale's The Goose Girl, where the heroine does have magic, and at least one of her important female friends also has magic (and gets her own novel afterwards). Female magic, in Hale's work, is as likely to be benevolent as otherwise. The Swan Kingdom, mentioned above in #6, also makes a point of showing female magic as good as well as bad. But then, maybe Khahani will surprise me and present some form of female magic in a more sympathetic light later on. (If not, the book's not getting more than three stars.)

Still, the book has a nice, readable style, and I do like the heroine and am intrigued to see what she will do next.

Edited as I've read certain reviews that indicate this book may seriously get on my nerves before it's done. I swear, if I never, ever read another magical guy, mundane girl book in my life, I'll be perfectly fine with that.

I've also started, and like kceccato, I'm at about 20%. So far I like it, it has a nice clear writing style. Although I have to say, every now and then the present tense throws me a little.

Thoughts so far: I think Alyrra's family is a bit over the top. I don't really understand why they treat her the way they do. I'd be very surprised if the guyin Alyrra's chamber is not the prince. And I'm a little miffed at the horse being disappointing in Alyrra for not wanting to be a princess. Why on earth would she? She's been treated badly all her life, so I think it's actually quite brave for her to consider following a different road. Although it happens like that for some people, having to follow a certain path just because you're born to certain people sounds crappy to me. Why should she care for her title? And why should she all of a sudden be responsible for 'her people'? The stupid horse has an opinion about what she should do, and he's trying to get her to do it. Well, I suppose she will, that's clearly how the book and fairytale will go, but I would think it refreshing if she told it to stuff its opinion where the sun don't shine, and went to shape her own life... Start a bakery, or something. What right does this horse have to force his expectations on her?

And yes, I'm aware I'm overreacting... Clearly a touchy point for me, and in truth, I'm really only miffed a bit, nothing worse, and I'm sure I won't mind the horse later on (hey, it's a talking horse, talking horses are intrinsically cool).

edit: Ah, I dared to read a few spoilers, and I see my spoiler was identical to sandstone78's in >6 sandstone78:. We must be right!

I'm surprised I'm not more bothered by the present-tense narration. The other places I've encountered it (Towers of the Sunset, Metropolitan, Amberlight) it's been something of a deal-breaker for me because I kept getting thrown out of the story, but it works fairly well here.

>10 zjakkelien: Yep, we were totally right :)

I see what you mean, for sure, and I agree based on her circumstances I could totally understand her wanting to get out of there because the princess life has been really horrible, but it seemed to me less like she chose the path of goose girl for herself and more like she decided not to fight her circumstances and let Valka have her position because it was the path of least resistance, and the "I can do whatever I want!" was an afterthought justifying that. I'm not convinced it actually is what she wants.

I saw the horse chastising her as him trying to get her to stand up for herself, but I'm not quite sure how far I could defend that reading, because rereading it I can see it as him just laying on the guilt to manipulate her because he thinks she would be a good princess too. (I've never been a fan of the whole "people who don't want power are the best people to put in positions of power!" thing- it's true that people who really, really, really want all the power they can get probably aren't good leaders, but I'm not sure the inverse is true- sometimes people just know themselves enough well enough to know that's something they won't or can't do well at because they don't have the temperament for it.)

I'll see how I feel about this as the book continues.

>9 kceccato: Reviews have promised me complications with the sorcerous women, but I don't know that they will rise above the status of "complicated villain that, despite how sad it is, must be destroyed for the good of everyone." I'm hoping to be surprised in that.

I've seen the same reviews as you, I believe, at least I've seen ones saying that Alyrra does not have magic of her own, and a case where she seems to, talking to the wind, it turns out to have been the prince all along somehow- I'm assuming it's going to come out that that's why he wants to marry her.

Very good point about the contrast between this and The Swan Kingdom regarding female characters with magic.

I should probably read Hale's The Goose Girl, it's been vaguely on my radar for years but I've never quite gotten around to it.

11> About that last spoiler, Yep, you got it. I found it a bit creepy that he'd been talking to her as the wind since childhood without her ever knowing who he was.

>11 sandstone78: Hmm, I see your point, I don't think being a goose girl is what she really wants. On the other hand, it is her choice. I don't like people (or horses) 'helping' others by pushing them in the direction they think they should go. Even if someone is not making the right choices...
I agree with you that not wanting power is not what makes someone a good ruler. That would make every good ruler an unhappy one... Perhaps you need someone who doesn't want power for power's sake, but who wants to put things right.

I read this a while ago and really liked it. I'll have to revisit for details to post here.

I've read that Khanani has written another book, Sunbolt, in which the heroine is a powerful mage. If I bear this in mind (and I definitely want to read it), it may help me deal with the absence of sympathetic female magic from Thorn.

I'm starting to like the heroine better as she seems to be taking a more active stand. I can see how the "little-me" attitude I find a bit annoying (though realistic, given how she's been treated most of her life) will gradually wear away.

I've finished, and I really enjoyed it. The only thing I would have preferred is it being less fairy-tale-like. She did a good job tying all the fairy-tale stuff together and making it plausible in general, but there were still some aspects that I felt sort of dropped out of thin air. The magic for instance has no explanation. I don't know, some if felt a little too fantastical to be realistic (all this wind and fairy business) (and I know you won't fault me for saying that about a fantasy book!).
But Thorn was a nice character. I didn't mind her not having magic too much, because the magic-users didn't seem that great themselves. Thorn was very kind and makes friends all around her, she values honesty, she turns out to have some insights in people's minds, managing to reach them when they are set on their course.
I felt the romance was realistic, and I like that even in the end there is no declaration of great love, more a realization that this relationship might grow into something good. The prince seems to be the knight in shining armor at first, but I think the rest of the book shows that although his heart is good in essence, he's also lazy in some respects. When Thorn wants justice from him, he doesn't give it to her, and she has to go look somewhere else. I like that she calls him out on the apple pie, that she sees the difference between her being allowed to address the wrongs she sees, and him seeing them as wrong for himself.

I read this over the weekend and after initially rolling my eyes at the unneccessary present-tense narration (why are so many authors doing this at the moment?) and being annoyed at the completely unexplained bullying of the heroine by her mother and brother, I settled in and found myself intrigued by Thorn, the characters around her and her growth from being absorbed in her own plight to seeing injustice and wanting to fight it. I found the Prince to be one of the least interesting characters and, like sandstone78 and zjakkelien I guessed his secret fairly early on. I loved the scenes of Thorn settling into life with the hostlers, learning how to make friends and how to be a friend, and also enjoyed the connections she makes in the town too, which broadened the scope of the story nicely without feeling extraneous to the main plot. I was very pleased with the twist in the apparent prince and his family good - sorceress evil setup and with the ambiguity of both sides, neither being fully good or evil. I did feel that the book ended a bit hastily, dropping many of the characters and threads that had been introduced with just a bare hint that they might get resolved in the future. I especially wanted a pledge from the prince to Thorn that he would try to change the culture of dismissing violence against women and children in the city - I thought she should have suggested to him that this would be a better wedding gift than the applecakes that he admitted himself were a bit of a feeble gesture. I wanted an explicit reference at the end of the story that he and Thorn would be working together on this once they became rulers. I wanted to cheer for Thorn in her showdowns with Valka when Thorn refuses to obey; those scenes were extremely satisfying. This was certainly one of the more thoughtful fairy-tale retellings that I've read and, while not perfect, had some definite strengths.

I think there are going to be sequels, right? Because I agree that there are some dangling threads... And I also liked that the sorceress wasn't only evil.

I saw mention of a companion novel that is forthcoming, but not sure if it will be a direct sequel. However, yes, there are plenty of side-stories she could continue.

I know I should be finished with this by now, but I am reading it in rotation with other books. Still, I'm now measurably over the halfway point.

What I like:
The heroine is a young woman of integrity. I just read the backstory of how she and Valka came to be enemies; I believe I liked her more at this moment than I have at any other time. Her ethical code seems to be her chief virtue, her strength, and I have reason to hope it will help her achieve Awesome by the time the book is done.

I also appreciate that the book spends as much time, if not more time, on Thorn's experiences in the city, and what she learns from them, as it does on her relationship with the Prince. It's also good that when she does interact with the Prince, she shows her strength rather than shrinking into a doormat.

What I don't like:

It's still clear that only evil women (the Lady, Thorn's mother) practice magic, and magic can only be any good when it's in the hands of men. Having to try hard to keep Sunbolt in mind.

The women we're supposed to like, Thorn included, follow very traditional gender roles. None of them seem to have any skill, talent, or ambition beyond caregiving. It would be nice, I think, if at least one of them had a noticeable interest in, and talent for, something else -- if one of them were a female healer, say, or a craftswoman. What's a little more vexing than the traditional gender roles is that not a single character we like feels at all moved to challenge those roles. To have some of the women quite happy in their role as caregivers would be just fine; to have ALL the sympathetic women happy in that role is a problem, for me anyway. (It's bothersome to me that only one woman we've seen so far wields any kind of power in her own right: Thorn's nasty mother.)

I like Thorn most of the time, but I like her better when she talks with the Prince or with Valka, where she asserts herself, than when she talks with Falada. It's in her conversations with the Horse at least as long as he is alive that the "little-me" attitude comes out the most. "I don't wanna learn magic! I just wanna be normal/ ignored/ safe!" It's actually a relief when an antagonist steps in. But I still hold out hope that this "little-me" syndrome will have dissipated considerably by the story's end.

I will probably award the book four stars.

>20 kceccato: I think her attitude when talking to the horse comes from him pushing her. I think it's quite understandable. I really don't like that pushing of his...