USE OF WEAPONS discussion (The Culture group read)

   

The man known as Cheradenine Zakalwe was one of Special Circumstances' foremost agents, changing the destiny of planets to suit the Culture through intrigue, dirty tricks and military action.

The woman known as Diziet Sma had plucked him from obscurity and pushed him towards his present eminence, but despite all their dealings she did not know him as well as she thought.

The drone known as Skaffen-Amtiskaw knew both of these people. It had once saved the woman's life by massacring her attackers in a particularly bloody manner. It believed the man to be a lost cause. But not even its machine could see the horrors in his past.

This thread is for the discussion of Use of Weapons, the third book set in the Culture universe.

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The Culture group read: Wiki page | Organisational thread

Well, it's officially March and I'm looking for a book to read so this seems as good a time as any to dive into Use of Weapons! I remember this as my favourite Culture book, but can't actually remember anything about it - so I'm curious to see how it reads now - and especially in the context of the two recent rereads! Rather excited :)

I have Use of Weapons ready and waiting to go, as well. :)

I'd forgotten it was funny. It's such a contrast to Consider Phlebas and Player of Games - although I know it's going to get much darker. But the first few chapters are almost whimsical.

Okay, I still love Use of Weapons. I've got a soft spot for blase competence, and Zakalwe is nothing if not competent. It stays whimsical for most of its run, and - a bit like Phlebas - isn't afraid to be outright daft in some of the more action-oriented sequences.

On this read though, I think my enjoyment was driven by my appreciation for the different perspectives on the Culture these three novels give us when read together. Phlebas is the Culture from the outside; Player is a 'normal' Culture citizen looking at a 'lesser' civilisation, and the machinations of Contact; and Weapons - finally - gives us Special Circumstances. It takes that throwaway comment made to Gurgeh - that SC agents tend to be non-Culture mercenaries, because Culture citizens aren't made the right way - and explores why.

You can't imagine a Culture citizen putting themselves through what Zakalwe goes through - he has a military background and a driving need to escape his past (indeed himself), so he embraces the danger and accepts that he doesn't always know what's going on, or why (could a Culture agent refrain from asking more questions?). Gurgeh might beat him at war games, but could never match his survival-driven ingenuity.

However, I was a little disapppointed in how Sma is handled on this read-through. She's vibrant, in control, smart - her role appears to be that of recruiting and handling the SC freelance talent - but she spends a lot of time off-page, floating in orbit waiting to hear how things have gone. This is probably about right in terms of a handler's role (and you have to assume the handler is human rather than drone only because of the anti-AI prejudice typical of non-Culture civilisations - Zakalwe, like Horza, clearly isn't a great fan or respecter of the Minds), but it's a shame as she's the only woman in the cast (Livueta and Darckense appear in memories only, and barely take shape as characters - they have even less agency than Sma).

Nice observations on the shifting POV relative to the Culture. I've read Weapons though over 5 years ago, and it may have been my first Culture novel, so had no such context. It's now a major part of my appreciation of what Banks is up to, in terms of social commentary. (Like many other fans, the other major part of what I appreciate is his take on the Minds and their role in the Culture, and outside it.)

I just started this today and am enjoying it so far. Intriguing method of presenting the plot, what with forward chapters and backwards one. I was really confused at first but found the humor sucked me in.

Sma: "'You know,' she said, 'I think I would like to kill Zakalwe.'

Skaffen-Amtiskaw: 'There's a queue.'

It's so refreshing after the rather straight ( sometimes dour) first 2 novels. I giggled most of the way through :)

Use of Weapon was the book that got me back reading the Culture novels a couple years ago.

Had read and enjoyed the Player of Games long ago but not really registered there was a series in the universe going on and still being written.

I've read this before but had completely forgotten anything about it except that I've read it. And I'm sorry to say that I'll probably forget it again, it just didn't do anything for me. A more light read than both Consider Phlebas and Player of Games and at times really funny, but I couldn't find it in me to care about the characters or the plot.

SPOILER I agree with Imyril that no Culture citizen would do what Zakalwe does and that's the most interesting point in this book in my opinion: Culture citizens don't fight for their way of life, they don't have to. They've relegated that responsibility to SC, the AIs and "aliens". In a way it's the ultimate self-centered culture: the citizens are kept comfortable, kept from (any real) harm, are pampered like children and don't have to worry about the outside world. I'm not really sure if it's the ultimate dream or the ultimate nightmare.

I'm a bit surprised that there is a Banks SF I don't like. I know some of them frustrated me (Feersum endjinn) and I remember I didn't understand what was going on in Excession (looking forward to trying to understand it this time around), but I wouldn't have thought there was one I downright didn't like. Maybe I'm just not in the mood for Banks this month :-)

It looks like I'm not going to get to Use of Weapons in March, but hey, this is a read-at-your-own-pace group read.

Just finished Use of Weapons, my favourite Culture read thus far.

4/5

>13 PiyushC: Tell us more!

I first read Use of Weapons about 15 years ago??? That long? My brother said it was his favorite book, and so I had to read it -- especially when I couldn't find a copy. Then it just became a challenge just to get a copy of it. I finally ordered through eBay -- and when the box came it was torn open and empty! I was astounded! All the trouble to get it, and finally I find it, and someone stole it! Finally I got another copy (I can't remember where) and read it. After that, every time I saw one available, I bought it. hahahaha I now have 3 copies and one on Kindle too. I've read it several times - but I think it's time to read it again!!!

You should have some good observations after several readings. And who knows, perhaps even something to say about the different editions!

I recently purchased 2 US editions, which retained some UK spellings but perhaps not all of them. I'm always suspicious when that changes, my view is that any variants are part of the vocabulary and ambiance of the work, and shouldn't be changed. In any case, I'd be interested in any comments you might have on that aspect of the book, as well.

Just finished Use of Weapons for about the 3rd time. I'd forgotten the twist. Iain Banks always has a twist toward the end of his books it seems. I also forgot that Cheradenine was so bereft? Depressed? Haunted by the past... So even though there is a lightness to the book, and humor, the main character is pretty much a mess. But I loved it and remembered how much I had loved it on past readings.

The Minds' humor is another reason I love the Culture novels. They're such smart-asses! But there in a pinch when they're needed.

I may have to go back and re-read it soon -- I didn't get the comment about how things went so bad at the Winter Palace. That seemed to have particular significance when the comment was made (I think it was by Sma), but couldn't really carry it through to later in the book. Did anyone else pick up on that?

You know, I remember finding that unexplained at the time and making sense of it later - and this I can't remember the logic for the life of me. Argh, brain!

>17 Alaskan_Bookie: >18 imyril:

If I remember right, the gist was that

(NASTY SPOILERS AHEAD)

he was expected by the Culture to break out of the Winter Palace with the forces he was heading, just as Elethiomel did from the Staberinde on the same day he sent the chair to Cheradenine Zakalwe, but he couldn't do it and was afterward no longer able to function as a soldier for the Culture as well as he previously did.