Electing Presidents in America

ConversazioniHistory: On learning from and writing history

Iscriviti a LibraryThing per pubblicare un messaggio.

Electing Presidents in America

Questa conversazione è attualmente segnalata come "addormentata"—l'ultimo messaggio è più vecchio di 90 giorni. Puoi rianimarla postando una risposta.

Modificato: Mar 10, 2016, 5:32 pm

The history of the American election process is and always has been a scandal ridden process. What passes today for vulgarity is a far cry from the vulgarities and scandals of times past.

What is so surprising about this year’s election process is the seeming insistence on political correctness that Donald Trump is resisting; and his supporters love him all the more for that resistance.

Also surprising is the fact that the Dems don’t seem to have learned anything from history. While they continue to pump out position papers right and left, it is Donald Trump who gives the American political circus what it really wants which is red meat. Red meat in the form of “the Wall”, protectionism, et. al. is what will win in any democratic forum in the end.

The Romans gave their circuses red meat entertainment.

The British and Canadians pride themselves on being cultured and civilized. Americans do not; in fact Americans enjoy the rough and tumble as well as the vulgar; just look at our tv pgms.

In summary, the election of presidents in America is ugly. Always was; always will be.

If The Donald is elected, this country will be in for one scary roller coaster ride.

Relax, until then.

But I say he wins, even though I won't and could never vote for him.

Modificato: Mar 13, 2016, 8:41 am

And then there are the sexual innuendos of campaigns past.........


Mar 13, 2016, 5:17 pm

The level of violence and his contempt for government in general, which Trump appears to be encouraging, is showing further resemblance to the period of the end of the Wiemar republic and the rise of the Nazi's. To an outsider, this appears to be what you are getting...

and remember, if you are contemplating moving to Canada, you cannot bring your handguns as settler's effects, and that is not the only change you will have to deal with...:-)

Modificato: Mar 13, 2016, 6:17 pm

golly, looks like we would have to learn how to play nicely and be civilized.

what's your secret? We obviously have much we need to learn.

seriously; where do we start? if we can't bring our handguns we will collapse into an identity crisis...

Modificato: Mar 13, 2016, 10:12 pm

1) the seats for our parliament are designed Federally by a reasonably even-handed neutral independant commission. Gerrymandering is far more difficult here. There are very few safe seats insuring political power for a party...the Feral (that was a typo for Federal...but I'll keep it in. Conservatives were at one point reduced to 14 out of 265 seats in the House of Commons.
2) a major government (tax) funded national broadcaster, insuring an even level of information to the population...Nation-wide as far as possible 92% of the country's area has access, over 99% of the population. And the radio service is often the most popular news broadcaster, even in urban centres.
3) a serious investment in education, (We are internationally rated with having the 10th best education system, the USA is 28 on the same scale, with most trade schools and universities being public funded, rather than begging alumini, or running entertainment level sports programs.
4) a mandated, single-payer health care program, reducing financial worries for the ordinary family tremendously. ( my wife and I pay less than $140.00/month for up to 5 free days in hospital, with whatever care including surgery can be provided in that time.) We're working on real Pharma-care at the moment.
5) A serious investment on multi-culturalism, trying to move our immigrant groups to full membership in the community with out the period that makes such groups vulnerable to organized crime. Now we are having some troubles with that, we were doing pretty well on that until the "War on Drugs" made the trade so valuable...thanks Reagan!" Still doing much better than US at this point.
6) An effective attitude of separation of Church and State...public resistance to too open religiosity on the part of members of Parliament, with more open Hindu, Sikh, Agnostic, Roman Catholic, Buddhist and Islamic minorities, you can't easily play the Fundamentalist card.
7) a country that has less abundance in resources reminding us constantly that co-operation rather than competition is the best way to accumulate services and stuff.
8) a far larger latitude in political parties further to the left, allowing more input from caring, rather than competing attitudes...
9) we aren't practising and institutional racists...see that bit about multi-culturalism, we do what Americans would call Class warfare instead.

10) and of course, the sometimes hideous examples of behaviour that our closest neighbour provides us...

So if you do want to come, remember that the ideas you grew up with will be challenged by numerous examples of un-American behaviours that worked out for us..that worked out for us.

Modificato: Mar 14, 2016, 10:10 am

Is it really that idyllic? I have never heard it described in that way before.

Would your Native Canadian Indians view it in the same light?

The Indians of the US were of course shamefully treated.

Mar 14, 2016, 5:35 pm

I don't believe that Canadian First nations people, while having a lot of work to do, yet won't change jurisdictions. Those first nations people I know certainly wouldn't... and fewer Canadians are actively working against them while they try to get better conditions. the current national government will get to economic stimulus by upgrading northern infrastructure as soon as it can, but the legacy of the previous government is massive, and dismantling it will take time.
Canada's not perfect, but i'm of course trying to get American immigrants that I would feel most comfortable with. What we really want are the Bernie voters, but not so many as to swamp us. My point 9 is the most contentious, but even so, there aren't legal efforts to erect barriers to political action to achieve Native goals.
On point 2: Our CBC is under constant attack, by people who believe information is property, not a utility, and our public broadcasting community has to be vigilant against pressure both from the business community, that wants it to be sold off so they can expand their market share, and those forces in the government who easily see the advantages to their political parties that would accrue if the CBC were brought to heel, rather than its mandate to be a third opposition party.

None of this is a secret, there's not a conspiracy, but a more open society gets the issues out in front, perhaps to the extent we are slightly bored with them, but victory by erosion is the Canadian way, often.
Another part of "the secret" is that we craft our government policies to succeed, and not to have obvious flaws. Canadians not only believe that government actions are beneficial, but act to make them so, rather than crafting them to fail and provide bad examples.
Perhaps "Our secret" is, in many cases, to regard our various governments as beneficial but flawed rather than agressors.

Mar 17, 2016, 10:33 pm

Resisting political correctness isn't always such a bad thing. It beats having conformity forced upon you. In most cases if it's disrespectful, it probably shouldn't be said, but doesn't mean it can't be said.

Mar 18, 2016, 12:02 pm

>1 Urquhart: "Donald Trump . . . gives the American political circus what it really wants which is red meat. Red meat in the form of “the Wall”, protectionism, et. al. is what will win in any democratic forum in the end."

"The British and Canadians pride themselves on being cultured and civilized. Americans do not; in fact Americans enjoy the rough and tumble as well as the vulgar; just look at our tv cgms."

It seems to me that there are more than a few British tv shows that are vulgar. More importantly, there seems to be substantial resistance in America to Mr. Trump. In yesterday's ABC/WP poll, 25% of those polled said Trump "has the kind of personality and temperament it takes to serve effectively as president" (versus 72% who said he does not).

Mar 18, 2016, 12:54 pm

10 cpg

It does not appear that the people voting in the primaries are voting along the line that the ABC/WP poll suggests.

Modificato: Mar 18, 2016, 1:27 pm

>11 Urquhart:

Really? For example, about 4060000 people voted in the Florida primaries, and Trump got about 1080000 votes, which is about 27%.

Mar 18, 2016, 1:33 pm

>12 cpg:

Trump's corresponding percentages in other recent primaries are: 24% (MO), 22% (OH), 20% (NC), and 16% (IL).

Mar 18, 2016, 1:43 pm

For someone with such low percentages, he impresses me as one very successful candidate.

FWIW, I would never be voting for him, but obviously many do.

Apr 1, 2016, 9:23 am

Success in the primaries is relative to the other candidates. Now that it is whittled down to 3 his support is not going up but the remaining candidates is. The problem for the GOP is that he already has most of the pledged delegates he needs. He will be their candidate and he will loose even if they have to sabotage him with a third party candidate. That is how Lincoln was elected, the southern Democrats ran a different candidate from the one the national party chose.

The US could still elect a liberal or a conservative in November but that depends on who wins the spot for the Democratic Party.

Apr 1, 2016, 10:01 am

>15 TLCrawford: "That is how Lincoln was elected, the southern Democrats ran a different candidate from the one the national party chose."

Another part of how Lincoln was elected was that the Republican party did not award the nomination to the candidate (Seward) who got the plurality of votes on the first ballot at the convention.

Apr 5, 2016, 2:55 pm

A Little bit of information on Donald Trump's father and the early influence on "Da Donald". Woody Guthrie was a folksinger whose attitude changes can be found in his songs, if you arrange them chronologically. This site is qute what I would have written on the subject.