Welcome

Welcome to The Last Cavalier, a group for fans of H. Beam Piper. The main purpose of this group is to discuss his life, his works and his worlds. Discussions about the continuation of his worlds by others are also encouraged and welcomed. So too are comparisons between Piper’s Terro-Human Future History and other authors future histories.

Thanks for the invite.
I've long been a fan of Piper and was devastated when I learned of his death way back when. Very sad.

I've been cruising the net tonight and just happened across ProjectGutenburg.org . It's a fantastic resource for ebooks and I found what appears to be everything Piper ever wrote at the following link.

http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/p#a8301

Check it out. I though I had read all of his work and am happy to find out differently.

brett

I don't think it's everything - there's at least three novels not there (Fuzzy Sapiens, Fuzzies and Other People, First Cycle) - but it is a lot. I did discover one story I'd never seen (Null-ABC). I think it's a great way to expose people to more Piper! I've been watching it build up, and helping it along in Distributed Proofreaders (pgdp.net).

I had heard about Project Gutenberg, but I had not visited the site. While I think the idea, intent and effort are admirable, I do have my concerns regarding the copyright status of works made available on it’s website.

A quick check of the U.S. Copyright Office online database shows that the copyright on Space Viking was renewed in 1991, so it is still protected. I do not know if the serialized version is the same as the published novel or if it has been abridged, but I would assume it is the same unless it is shown otherwise. The PG copy of Space Viking has no notice explaining why it is not protected by copyright and is in public domain.

The PG version of Uller Uprising is taken completely from the 1983 Ace edition, including the copyright notices. While the copyright renewal notice for Piper’s work and Dr. Clark’s original introduction are not valid, John F. Carr’s copyright for his introduction is valid. Yet it is included without any notice of that permission was granted to reprint it.

Besides the three novels already mentioned the novel Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, the novelettes “Gunpowder God”, “Down Styphon” and the novella “When in the Course–“ are not currently available at Project Gutenberg.

I don't know for sure - I've never gone through the whole process with PG over a book. The Piper ones, I know, are there because of a loophole in copyrighting, but I don't remember the details. The thing is, if there were currently-in-print editions of Piper's work, I'd be less happy about the PG versions - but since there aren't, it's a way of exposing some people who have never read Piper to his work. And there is no way for new readers, or old readers, to give anything to Piper's estate, or to Ace Books which bought all or nearly all his works and reissued them (but didn't keep them in print since).

There are frequently differences (generally minor) between the serialized and the novel versions of a story. Whether this should actually be used to differentiate them for purposes of copyright...

And I've no idea about Carr's introduction. Possibilities include that nobody thought of that (unlikely, PG's copyright hunters are used to thinking about such questions), the intro to a public domain story is automatically public domain (maybe unlikely - but copyright law is such a mess I don't know), or that Carr gave permission to have his work used (possible, I don't know how likely). Or something else I haven't thought of.

Anyway - as I said, I find the PG editions a great way to introduce people to authors who might be difficult to find in paper versions, like Piper.

As far as I know, there are no copyright loopholes. I believe that most of them are in the public domain (or assumed to be in the public domain) because the copyrights were not renewed as required by law. Searching the Copyright Office online database only shows Space Viking as having been renewed. Whether or not the database is complete and accurate is a total separate matter. I agree the PG versions and numerous editions being printed by small press publishers are good for exposing Piper’s work to a new generation of readers.

As for Carr’s introduction to Uller Uprising, under current copyright law it is protected whether or not it was registered with the copyright office. Therefore it should not be on the PG site without his permission. As for Uller Uprising itself, Ace published it with a 1983 copyright renew notice, but that is three years too late and is therefore invalid.

Thanks for the invite. I've been a fan of Piper's ever since I read the Fuzzy books lo these many years back. Then I discovered his other works slowly but surely. I was very saddened when I heard how he died - he was a great writer!

It should also be noted that PG is not some fly-by-night hack site. They are legit and have competent legal advice. There is nothing on their site that shouldn't be. If something does get past them, they deal with it immediately.
Their site is relied on by many and has to protect it's credibility.

As for Carr's intro, how do you know that he did NOT give his permission? I'd hazard a guess and say that he did. There is no reason not to.

If anyone has a legitimate complaint or concern about anything on the PG site or ANY site, bring it to the attention of the authorities and you can bet it will be dealt with.

I think Project Gutenberg is a worthwhile undertaking and I hope that it can eventually achieve making all public domain works available online.

I asked about Space Viking because it has a valid U.S. copyright for the published novel and I do not know if the serialized version is the same or different (many serialized novels are abridged).

As for John F. Carr’s introduction, no mention is made that he gave his permission for it to be put on the PG site. As you mention, they want to protect their credibility, so I would think when an author grants permission it would be mentioned. Why do you think he did grant permission and that there is no reason for him not to?