Pagina principaleGruppiConversazioniEsploraStatistiche
Cerca nel Sito
Questo sito utilizza i cookies per fornire i nostri servizi, per migliorare le prestazioni, per analisi, e (per gli utenti che accedono senza fare login) per la pubblicità. Usando LibraryThing confermi di aver letto e capito le nostre condizioni di servizio e la politica sulla privacy. Il tuo uso del sito e dei servizi è soggetto a tali politiche e condizioni.
Hide this

Risultati da Google Ricerca Libri

Fai clic su di un'immagine per andare a Google Ricerca Libri.

The Just City di Jo Walton
Sto caricando le informazioni...

The Just City (edizione 2015)

di Jo Walton

Serie: Thessaly (1)

UtentiRecensioniPopolaritàMedia votiCitazioni
8926519,508 (3.86)79
Created as an experiment by the time-traveling goddess Pallas Athene, the Just City is a planned community, populated by over ten thousand children and a few hundred adult teachers from all eras of history, along with some handy robots from the far human future - all set down together on a Mediterranean island in the distant past. The student Simmea, born an Egyptian farmer's daughter sometime between 500 and 1000 A.D, is a brilliant child, eager for knowledge, ready to strive to be her best self. The teacher Maia was once Ethel, a young Victorian lady of much learning and few prospects, who prayed to Pallas Athene in an unguarded moment during a trip to Rome - and, in an instant, found herself in the Just City with grey-eyed Athene standing unmistakably before her. Meanwhile, Apollo - stunned by the realization that there are things mortals understand better than he does - has arranged to live a human life, and has come to the City as one of the children. He knows his true identity, and conceals it from his peers. For this lifetime, he is prone to all the troubles of being human. Then, a few years in, Sokrates arrives - the same Sokrates recorded by Plato himself - to ask all the troublesome questions you would expect.… (altro)
Utente:bluejo
Titolo:The Just City
Autori:Jo Walton
Info:Tor Books (2015), Edition: First Edition, Hardcover, 368 pages
Collezioni:La tua biblioteca
Voto:
Etichette:Nessuno

Informazioni sull'opera

The Just City di Jo Walton

Sto caricando le informazioni...

Iscriviti per consentire a LibraryThing di scoprire se ti piacerà questo libro.

Attualmente non vi sono conversazioni su questo libro.

» Vedi le 79 citazioni

I'm surprised at how much I enjoyed this book. I think I was expecting to be bored to death by deep, philosophical discussions, as philosophy is not really a topic I like to give much of my time to, but I liked that Walton truly created her own interpretation of historical figures like Socrates and famous god(desse)s like Athena. They fit neatly into the story with the fictional characters, who all had compelling and individual voices. Every time I picked this book up I didn't want to put it back down.

The only negative thing here, in my opinion, was the ending. There wasn't much of one. The final chapter of the book was very intense. I felt just as enthralled by the debate between Athena and Socrates as the crowd that gathered to watch it. Athena's abrupt disappearance (in a sort of wrathful, literal deus ex machina moment) and the ensuing one page of chaos that followed left me unsatisfied with too many questions. I see now that this is the first of a series, which does explain the last-minute twists and loose ends, but the suddenness of the ending given just doesn't feel appropriate.

TL;DR: The Just City is a thoroughly engrossing book with a brusque ending that was I found to be a slight detriment, but not enough to spoil the rest of the story.
( )
  torygy | Mar 31, 2022 |
There's an awful lot of set up in this book. More than I have the patience for right now.
  fionaanne | Nov 11, 2021 |
Closer to 4 stars than three.

A very difficult book to classify. One might say "The Just City" bears the same relationship to classical Greek philosophy that science fiction does to science.

It's a story about an experimental attempt to create a city that embodies the ideals of Plato's Republic, and the places where reality is simply incompatible with the ideal, thus illuminating flaws in that ideal.

It's a sort of philosophical parable; the characters in the Just City (which include both adults from various times, and children/youths of ancient Greece) care and talk about justice, slavery, excellence, deception, and friendship. The practice of rhetoric is central in the way that the practice of science is in SF.

The viewpoint characters include a couple of Greek gods. Don't let this put you off the book, or dismiss it as mythology: instead, accept them as real elements of the universe in which the book takes place. (Or, just consider them as aliens, if that's more familiar.)

I liked the book very much, except for the treatment of one theme; but I also perceive that treatment to be a strength of the book. (just, an unpleasant one to read)


The theme is rape.

Early on in the book, when they're still setting up the Just City and deciding how everything will work, one of the women is raped by one of the men. After arranging to go for a walk with her in private, he tells her that he wants to have sex with her, ignores her refusal, tells her that she wants to, rapes her, and then tells her that she enjoyed it.

Afterwards, she tells some of the other women about it, and they discuss whether to bring the matter before the emerging city government: clearly, this violates the principles of the Just City.

But they're legitimately afraid that it won't be treated as obviously wrong, because the adult population is dominated by men from eras in which women had no rights. And they're legitimately afraid that the controversy would doom the experiment from the start. Better to keep quiet, they decide. She'll just avoid him in future.

And so from the beginning, the experiment is poisoned.

The whole book isn't about this, but it keeps creeping up, breaking through, one way or another. It's very well done, but very disturbing, which is why I think it's a huge part of the point of the book.

This theme arguably serves as a concrete fictional example of the question often raised by feminist critique of the Western canon: if all the canonical writers are male, then what perspectives are thereby excluded from the canon? What problems, what themes, what practicalities won't be considered?


It's a very feminist book, in a very subtle way.

It does end on a bit of a cliffhanger, but at the same time it's the right place for a book about the Just City to end: when the city breaks down as a functioning social order. But it doesn't resolve any of the issues that caused that to happen.

I may read the sequel (I assume there will be one); in terms of characters and plot, I came to be reasonably invested and curious. But in terms of the rhetorical substance of the book, it feels satisfyingly complete. ( )
  VictoriaGaile | Oct 16, 2021 |
Walton, Jo. The Just City. Thessaly No. 1. Tor, 2015.
Jo Walton is a writer I know best for her excellent reviews of older science fiction and fantasy novels at Tor.com. The Just City is an intriguing novel of ideas based on Plato’s Republic. The Greek Gods are still alive and well. Apollo goes to Athena to ask why Daphne would rather be turned into a tree than give in to his sexual advances. The only way he will ever understand is to become human, so he does. Athena sends him to a city she has established on a doomed island. People from across time who have read Plato in the original Greek and have prayed sincerely to live in the Republic are brought to inhabit the city designed on Plato’s model. Apollo courts a young woman who only wants Platonic romance, and Socrates shows up to foster a revolution among the robots being used as slave labor. Along the way, we get good character development and lively philosophical debates about personal agency. Fun. 4 stars. ( )
  Tom-e | Sep 23, 2021 |
Clever and detailed, not to mention elegantly written, but ultimately the narrative is constrained by the very strictures it sets out to explore.

I have a pretty high tolerance for musing, thoughtful, character novels which ramble gently without heavy plot, and of course the promise of Socratic dialogue in spades was a huge draw.

However, the book did drag in places even for me; I found myself skimming Maia's sections but avidly reading Simmea's and Apollo's.

What definitively knocked the last star off for me was Sokrates. Any story which includes him as a character is always going to be taking a risk, since he is a phenomenally influential character for whom readers will have high expectations. I suspect only Plato or another Socratic scholar could have any hope of pulling it off.

Matt Hilliard once said that authors should refrain from writing messianic messages or sermons unless they are themselves Messiahs. I wonder if perhaps this also applies to writing philosophical arguments, when authors are not philosophers. The didactic rhetoric and Socratic dialogue often fell flat for me, with logical disconnects between arguments. I would also argue that Socratic dialogue isn't really debate; it's artificial and constructed to prove the main speaker's point. Walton seems to have aimed for a halfway point between true rhetoric and group discussion, but didn't quite nail either in many instances. Sokrates versus Athena carried well (the Final Debate) but not so much Sokrates and Simmea/Apollo.

The novel did offer a robust defense of the Republic which often gets much flack, although in the end it did come down firmly on the side of Plato's ideas being too unworkable in many cases.

I think its other strong point (I don't usually say this) is the thoughtful and scintillating examination of feminism in this context, with full nuance and no easy answers.

I would happily recommend to any fans of Jo Walton's other works, or fans of literary and/or philosophical science fantasy. ( )
  Sunyidean | Sep 7, 2021 |
The Just City is a glorious example of one of the primary purposes of speculative fiction: serving as a map to the potentials and miseries of a possible world. But it is also a map that should be scrawled with the words, “here be dragons.”
 
Brilliant, compelling, and frankly unputdownable, this will do what your Intro to Philosophy courses probably couldn't: make you want to read The Republic.
aggiunto da bluejo | modificaNPR, Amal El-Mohtar (Jan 15, 2015)
 

» Aggiungi altri autori

Nome dell'autoreRuoloTipo di autoreOpera?Stato
Jo Waltonautore primariotutte le edizionicalcolato
Sanzio, RaffaelloImmagine di copertinaautore secondarioalcune edizioniconfermato
Stafford-Hill, JamieProgetto della copertinaautore secondarioalcune edizioniconfermato

Appartiene alle Serie

Devi effettuare l'accesso per contribuire alle Informazioni generali.
Per maggiori spiegazioni, vedi la pagina di aiuto delle informazioni generali.
Titolo canonico
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
Titolo originale
Titoli alternativi
Data della prima edizione
Personaggi
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
Luoghi significativi
Eventi significativi
Film correlati
Premi e riconoscimenti
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
Epigrafe
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
Wherever you go, there are plenty of places where you will find a welcome; and if you choose to go to Thessaly, I have friends there who will make much of you and give you complete protection, so that no one in Thessaly can interfere with you.

—Plato, Crito
The triremes which defended Greece at Salamis defended Mars too.

—Ada Palmer, Dogs of Peace
Yes, I know, Plato; but if you always take the steps in threes, one day you will miss a cracked one.

—Mary Renault, The Last of the Wine
If you could take that first step
You could dance with Artemis
Beside Apollo Eleven.
—Jo Walton, "Submersible Moonphase"
Dedica
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
This is for Ada, who took me to Bernini's Apollo.
Incipit
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
She turned into a tree. It was a Mystery. It must have been. Nothing else made sense, because I didn't understand it.
Citazioni
Ultime parole
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
(Click per vedere. Attenzione: può contenere anticipazioni.)
Nota di disambiguazione
Redattore editoriale
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
Elogi
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
Lingua originale
Dati dalle informazioni generali inglesi. Modifica per tradurlo nella tua lingua.
DDC/MDS Canonico
LCC canonico

Risorse esterne che parlano di questo libro

Wikipedia in inglese (2)

Created as an experiment by the time-traveling goddess Pallas Athene, the Just City is a planned community, populated by over ten thousand children and a few hundred adult teachers from all eras of history, along with some handy robots from the far human future - all set down together on a Mediterranean island in the distant past. The student Simmea, born an Egyptian farmer's daughter sometime between 500 and 1000 A.D, is a brilliant child, eager for knowledge, ready to strive to be her best self. The teacher Maia was once Ethel, a young Victorian lady of much learning and few prospects, who prayed to Pallas Athene in an unguarded moment during a trip to Rome - and, in an instant, found herself in the Just City with grey-eyed Athene standing unmistakably before her. Meanwhile, Apollo - stunned by the realization that there are things mortals understand better than he does - has arranged to live a human life, and has come to the City as one of the children. He knows his true identity, and conceals it from his peers. For this lifetime, he is prone to all the troubles of being human. Then, a few years in, Sokrates arrives - the same Sokrates recorded by Plato himself - to ask all the troublesome questions you would expect.

Non sono state trovate descrizioni di biblioteche

Descrizione del libro
Riassunto haiku

Copertine popolari

Link rapidi

Voto

Media: (3.86)
0.5
1 5
1.5
2 15
2.5 1
3 45
3.5 16
4 100
4.5 18
5 54

Sei tu?

Diventa un autore di LibraryThing.

 

A proposito di | Contatto | LibraryThing.com | Privacy/Condizioni d'uso | Guida/FAQ | Blog | Negozio | APIs | TinyCat | Biblioteche di personaggi celebri | Recensori in anteprima | Informazioni generali | 171,578,976 libri! | Barra superiore: Sempre visibile