Greatest french book... ever... ( this is not a hitlist - this is not a hitlist- this is not a Aaarg
ConversazioniLe Salon Littéraire du Peuple pour le Peuple
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1Macumbeira
The Stranger by Albert Camus
The Plague by Camus Albert
The Fall by A. Camus
A Happy Death by Camus A.
The First Man by Camus
Exile and the Kingdom by le petit Albert
Betwixt and between by la société A. Camus
The Myth of Sisyphus by Alberto Camelloto
Nuptials by Albertine Camusette
The Rebel by el senor Kaasmuis
The Plague by Camus Albert
The Fall by A. Camus
A Happy Death by Camus A.
The First Man by Camus
Exile and the Kingdom by le petit Albert
Betwixt and between by la société A. Camus
The Myth of Sisyphus by Alberto Camelloto
Nuptials by Albertine Camusette
The Rebel by el senor Kaasmuis
2absurdeist
Mac is on a Smack roll!
4aethercowboy
Perhaps we should ponder the perennial Planet of the Apes par Pierre: percentages paramount to pieces as Papillon.
6Macumbeira
Cheri Bibi !!!
I am impressed slick. Wow.
I am impressed slick. Wow.
7urania1
Okay, since this is not a hitlist, I won't hit Camus (although I may on another forum). No, I will gently usher him offstage and substitute Julien Gracq.
8Macumbeira
Le rivage des Syrtes ?
9Macumbeira
seriously the French list is made up by Proust-Flaubert-Hugo and Celine
The others you can fill in as you wish
The others you can fill in as you wish
12Macumbeira
10 don't know that one. Good ?
13Macumbeira
11 ( shaking his head in unbelief ) Blasphemy....
14urania1
>12 Macumbeira:,
Très fab. Dark scary gothic hermetic philosophy. I was biting my nails in terror throughout the entire read. Ask DavidX.
Très fab. Dark scary gothic hermetic philosophy. I was biting my nails in terror throughout the entire read. Ask DavidX.
15aethercowboy
Don't pass by an always-to-favor author of wordly constraint: G_org_s P_r_c; you may not wish to a-void his work.
17Macumbeira
Wait, we have the list :
Proust-Flaubert-Hugo and Celine
Balzac yes, Stendhal...yes
add Camus
top it with Diderot and Pierre de marivaux
I would sugest Gide but he is a bit boring Why not Huysmans or Samuell Beckett ?
Proust-Flaubert-Hugo and Celine
Balzac yes, Stendhal...yes
add Camus
top it with Diderot and Pierre de marivaux
I would sugest Gide but he is a bit boring Why not Huysmans or Samuell Beckett ?
18Macumbeira
P_r_c and Robbe grillet are a class appart. Shouldn't we put them together in another list ?
19Macumbeira
Together with Guillaume Apollinaire , Artaud, Quenau ? Roussel, Joyce , jarry and other Lewis Caroll's ?
21A_musing
I loath Celine, whose writings convinced me of the existence of Hell because to not imagine him in the innermost circle is unthinkable. Mann should have cast Celine as Faustus, but for his prior claims to the role of Mephistopheles.
Rabelais, Rabelais, Rabelais. All is a footnote to Rabelais. Well, all except La Fontaine.
I have not read Gracq, but he is on my TBR list, so there is a list there somewhere for him.
Rabelais, Rabelais, Rabelais. All is a footnote to Rabelais. Well, all except La Fontaine.
I have not read Gracq, but he is on my TBR list, so there is a list there somewhere for him.
23Macumbeira
Urania you know that I make this lists specially for you... So Julien is in....
Celine was a nasty bastard but his book " Voyage au bout de la nuit " is superb and really one of a kind. The passion with which it is written is breath taking.
Celine was a nasty bastard but his book " Voyage au bout de la nuit " is superb and really one of a kind. The passion with which it is written is breath taking.
24A_musing
Well, it should be good - it cost him his soul. But why the devil did he have to give up the soul before he even set pen to paper?
But I suspect you would like Herta Muller if you like Celine. I'm not so sure he's one of a kind.
But I suspect you would like Herta Muller if you like Celine. I'm not so sure he's one of a kind.
25Macumbeira
Hopla one more on the TBR list ! : )
26Macumbeira
My next list will be UNGLORIOUS LITTERARY BASTARDS...
Celine, Muller ( ? ), Ezra Pound etc
Celine, Muller ( ? ), Ezra Pound etc
27aethercowboy
>26 Macumbeira:.
Please, spell it correctly:
UInglourious Litterary Basterds
(you were right on the middle word).
Edit: I was wrong on the first word...
Edit: Twice!
Please, spell it correctly:
(you were right on the middle word).
Edit: I was wrong on the first word...
Edit: Twice!
28Macumbeira
huh ?
29PimPhilipse
Montaigne Montesquieu Sade Voltaire Rousseau Diderot ... pkchttt ...
(Yeah, those 18-th century guys really mean something for me (OK, Montaigne lived in another century... but somehow, for me, he's into enlightenment avant la lettre))
(Yeah, those 18-th century guys really mean something for me (OK, Montaigne lived in another century... but somehow, for me, he's into enlightenment avant la lettre))
31Macumbeira
ok
32Macumbeira
Pim, die zijn te oud !
34aethercowboy
'cause otherwise, he'll send Gargantua and Pantagruel after you.
35PimPhilipse
>32 Macumbeira:: Dan moesten we maar eens ... Maeterlinck van stal halen.
36polutropos
Mac,
you are not only great, you are also hilarious.
I could go along with the list in #1. I would also be prepared to make a list consisting only of the works of Balzac.
The one in #17 if we insist on variety.
Nobody in all these posts has mentioned Zola.
you are not only great, you are also hilarious.
I could go along with the list in #1. I would also be prepared to make a list consisting only of the works of Balzac.
The one in #17 if we insist on variety.
Nobody in all these posts has mentioned Zola.
37polutropos
#32, 35
Belgian Waffles have to translate now for the rest of us.
Belgian Waffles have to translate now for the rest of us.
38MeditationesMartini
Lists till the break of break of dawn! Imma have to go:
Balzac, Old Goriot
Proust, Recherche
Flaubert, Madame B
Sartre, The Age of Reason
Genet, Miracle of the Rose
Rabelais, Gargantua
Zola, L'Assommoir (anyone know why the title of this is seemingly never translated?)
Dumas, The Three Musketeers
and I wanted to leave the last spot for a French philosopher,but the names are crowding in hard and fast . . . I think I have to give it to Deleuze and Guattari, A Thousand Plateaux, because it succeeds better as metaphor story than say Discipline and Punish or Of Grammatology
Balzac, Old Goriot
Proust, Recherche
Flaubert, Madame B
Sartre, The Age of Reason
Genet, Miracle of the Rose
Rabelais, Gargantua
Zola, L'Assommoir (anyone know why the title of this is seemingly never translated?)
Dumas, The Three Musketeers
and I wanted to leave the last spot for a French philosopher,but the names are crowding in hard and fast . . . I think I have to give it to Deleuze and Guattari, A Thousand Plateaux, because it succeeds better as metaphor story than say Discipline and Punish or Of Grammatology
39MeditationesMartini
Oh oooops! Drop the philosophes, add Michel de Montaigne.
40Macumbeira
35 LOL
Couldn't get any closer than that !
Touché
Couldn't get any closer than that !
Touché
41rolandperkins
The Stranger by Albert Camus
The Fall by Albert Camus
Pensees {Thoughts by Blaise Pascal
Poems by Paul Verlaine
Poems by Paul Eluard
Paroles by Jacques Prevert
Poems by Pierre Emmanuel
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
JʻAccuse by Emile Zola
The Fall by Albert Camus
Pensees {Thoughts by Blaise Pascal
Poems by Paul Verlaine
Poems by Paul Eluard
Paroles by Jacques Prevert
Poems by Pierre Emmanuel
Les Miserables by Victor Hugo
JʻAccuse by Emile Zola
42semckibbin
Celine - Not a fan. Hate isnt an emotion I dig.
43rolandperkins
#41, I didnʻt intend to make any particular number of choices; it turned out to be 9. And I didnʻt intend any order of preference. But I must admit that Camusʻs The Fall was the first one that came to mind for this thread.
Two that should definitely have been on the list:
Moliere, especially for The Doctor in Spite of Himself--the only one of his that I have seen a production of (in English and more an adaptation than a literal translation, with Zero Mostel in the title role.) AND RABELAIS, agreeing with some of the above posts (and contrary to one of them.)
AND Claude Emmanuel Pastoret,
(1756-1844) historian and proto-anthropologist, especially for his Zoroastre, Confucius, et Mohammed of which I have done a translation.
On Les M. I should note that Hugo was better known, in his own time, as a poet than as a novelist. And for sheer sound-effects, some of his poems far outdo those of the poets I listed.
Some that I considered but who didnʻt finally "make the cut" for the list:
Voltaire: (his Candide is worthy of at least an Honorable Mention listing. And, I donʻt know the title of it, but he wrote something similar to the later JʻAccuse by Zola -- and, in the 18th c., was probably taking a greater risk than Zola.)
Honorable Mention also to Racine, especially for his Athalie and Brittanicus, to Francois Villon the 15th c. poet, and to Jules Laforgue, the
19th c. poet.
Two that should definitely have been on the list:
Moliere, especially for The Doctor in Spite of Himself--the only one of his that I have seen a production of (in English and more an adaptation than a literal translation, with Zero Mostel in the title role.) AND RABELAIS, agreeing with some of the above posts (and contrary to one of them.)
AND Claude Emmanuel Pastoret,
(1756-1844) historian and proto-anthropologist, especially for his Zoroastre, Confucius, et Mohammed of which I have done a translation.
On Les M. I should note that Hugo was better known, in his own time, as a poet than as a novelist. And for sheer sound-effects, some of his poems far outdo those of the poets I listed.
Some that I considered but who didnʻt finally "make the cut" for the list:
Voltaire: (his Candide is worthy of at least an Honorable Mention listing. And, I donʻt know the title of it, but he wrote something similar to the later JʻAccuse by Zola -- and, in the 18th c., was probably taking a greater risk than Zola.)
Honorable Mention also to Racine, especially for his Athalie and Brittanicus, to Francois Villon the 15th c. poet, and to Jules Laforgue, the
19th c. poet.
45rolandperkins
Questo messaggio è stato cancellato dall'autore.
46rolandperkins
To SLickdpdx (#44)
If I were re-writing my list (#43), Dumasʻs The Man in the Iron Mask would be on my "Honorable Mention" list. I read it in Tonga in the 80s. A lot of books find their way to those islands, and a lot more donʻt. I could get a hold of "Iron mask" only in a not very up to date English translation that was in our university library. On the other hand, on a visit to Tonga, in 2004, I bought the original French of Verneʻs LʻIle Mysterieuse in a small book & magazine shop which didnʻt exist when I lived in Tonga. I gave the Verne to our Public Library system here in Hawaiʻi; it has a small French Language collection.
His Count of Monte Cristo definitely wouldnʻt be on my list, because I hate "revenge" yarns. (Every time I catch someone writing one, I swear I will "get" them before I die! Grr ! and I donʻt mean get their book for my library!)
His short novels The Black Tulip and The Corsican Brothers were good. His Queen Margot has been on my TBR (which is only in my head, not on paper) for a long time.
If I were re-writing my list (#43), Dumasʻs The Man in the Iron Mask would be on my "Honorable Mention" list. I read it in Tonga in the 80s. A lot of books find their way to those islands, and a lot more donʻt. I could get a hold of "Iron mask" only in a not very up to date English translation that was in our university library. On the other hand, on a visit to Tonga, in 2004, I bought the original French of Verneʻs LʻIle Mysterieuse in a small book & magazine shop which didnʻt exist when I lived in Tonga. I gave the Verne to our Public Library system here in Hawaiʻi; it has a small French Language collection.
His Count of Monte Cristo definitely wouldnʻt be on my list, because I hate "revenge" yarns. (Every time I catch someone writing one, I swear I will "get" them before I die! Grr ! and I donʻt mean get their book for my library!)
His short novels The Black Tulip and The Corsican Brothers were good. His Queen Margot has been on my TBR (which is only in my head, not on paper) for a long time.
47Third_cheek
Joris-Karl Huysman's A Rebours anyone?
48anna_in_pdx
I'm a literary gourmand and also a sentimental fool. That said:
- The Little Prince (hey I SAID I was a sentimental fool) (I also loved Terre des Hommes by the same author)
- Proust Un Amour de Swann (only Proust I ever read so I am so waiting for the Proust read next summer)
- Poetry. I like so many French poets particularly:
* Hugo - Les Orientales
* Baudelaire - Les Fleurs du Mal
* Verlaine and Rimbaud (don't remember names of poetry books)
- Stendhal, the Red & The Black (read this in English though)
-Malraux, La condition humaine
- and of course Camus, L'etranger
I am a French Lit major....
- The Little Prince (hey I SAID I was a sentimental fool) (I also loved Terre des Hommes by the same author)
- Proust Un Amour de Swann (only Proust I ever read so I am so waiting for the Proust read next summer)
- Poetry. I like so many French poets particularly:
* Hugo - Les Orientales
* Baudelaire - Les Fleurs du Mal
* Verlaine and Rimbaud (don't remember names of poetry books)
- Stendhal, the Red & The Black (read this in English though)
-Malraux, La condition humaine
- and of course Camus, L'etranger
I am a French Lit major....
49urania1
>48 anna_in_pdx: Count me in as another sentimental fool. Le Petit Prince was the first novel I ever read en français (9th grade French class). It is the only French novel that I cannot bear to read in translation - not that I've read that many.
50urania1
For anna and Medelia
Art Poétique
De la musique avant toute chose,
Et pour cela préfère l'Impair
Plus vague et plus soluble dans l'air,
Sans rien en lui qui pèse ou qui pose.
Il faut aussi que tu n'ailles point
Choisir tes mots sans quelque méprise
Rien de plus cher que la chanson grise
Où l'Indécis au Précis se joint.
C'est des beaux yeux derrière des voiles,
C'est le grand jour tremblant de midi,
C'est, par un ciel d'automne attiédi,
Le bleu fouillis des claires étoiles !
Car nous voulons la Nuance encor,
Pas la Couleur, rien que la nuance !
Oh ! la nuance seule fiance
Le rêve au rêve et la flûte au cor !
Fuis du plus loin la Pointe assassine,
L'Esprit cruel et le rire impur,
Qui font pleurer les veux de l'Azur,
Et tout cet ail de basse cuisine !
Prends l'éloquence et tords-lui son cou !
Tu feras bien, en train d'énergie,
De rendre un peu la Rime assagie.
Si l'on n'y veille, elle ira jusqu'où ?
0 qui dira les torts de la Rime !
Quel enfant sourd ou quel nègre fou
Nous a forgé ce bijou d'un sou
Qui sonne creux et faux sous la lime ?
De la musique encore et toujours !
Que ton vers soit la chose envolée
Qu'on sent qui fuit d'une âme en allée
Vers d'autres cieux à d'autres amours.
Que ton vers soit la bonne aventure
Éparse au vent crispé du matin
Qui va fleurant la menthe et le thym...
Et tout le reste est littérature.
--Paul Verlaine
Art Poétique
De la musique avant toute chose,
Et pour cela préfère l'Impair
Plus vague et plus soluble dans l'air,
Sans rien en lui qui pèse ou qui pose.
Il faut aussi que tu n'ailles point
Choisir tes mots sans quelque méprise
Rien de plus cher que la chanson grise
Où l'Indécis au Précis se joint.
C'est des beaux yeux derrière des voiles,
C'est le grand jour tremblant de midi,
C'est, par un ciel d'automne attiédi,
Le bleu fouillis des claires étoiles !
Car nous voulons la Nuance encor,
Pas la Couleur, rien que la nuance !
Oh ! la nuance seule fiance
Le rêve au rêve et la flûte au cor !
Fuis du plus loin la Pointe assassine,
L'Esprit cruel et le rire impur,
Qui font pleurer les veux de l'Azur,
Et tout cet ail de basse cuisine !
Prends l'éloquence et tords-lui son cou !
Tu feras bien, en train d'énergie,
De rendre un peu la Rime assagie.
Si l'on n'y veille, elle ira jusqu'où ?
0 qui dira les torts de la Rime !
Quel enfant sourd ou quel nègre fou
Nous a forgé ce bijou d'un sou
Qui sonne creux et faux sous la lime ?
De la musique encore et toujours !
Que ton vers soit la chose envolée
Qu'on sent qui fuit d'une âme en allée
Vers d'autres cieux à d'autres amours.
Que ton vers soit la bonne aventure
Éparse au vent crispé du matin
Qui va fleurant la menthe et le thym...
Et tout le reste est littérature.
--Paul Verlaine
51slickdpdx
#46: I agree the Count's revenge is taken a bit (okay, a lot) too far for modern sensibilities. But I loved that book. He was very prolific and a good writer. I don't know how he could be left off.
I too enjoyed the Mysterious Island!
I too enjoyed the Mysterious Island!
52DavidX
You have driven me to violate my no list rule. When I am burning in hell for this I am naming names. At least that way I'll suffer eternal damnation in good company. ;)
All lists are in alphabetical order.
Poets:
Baudelaire
Chateaubriand
Lautreamont
Mallarme
Nerval
Rimbaud
Verlaine
Vivien(English, but she lived in Paris and wrote in french)
I haven't gotten to Apollinaire yet. I'm embarrassed to admit it.
Playwrights:
Artaud
Genet
Moliere
Racine
Sartre
Novelists:
Balzac
de Sade
Dumas
Gautier
Genet
Gracq
Huysmans
Lorrain
Proust
Rabelais
Rachilde
Stendhal
Verne
Villiers de l'Isle-Adam
Zola
I know that's way too many. I did the best I could.
I'm not saying anyone should alter their own list. I think it's fun and useful to compare favorites.
I love The Little Prince too. I'm also a sentimental fool...with some issues. Jules Verne is a childhood favorite I still have great fondness for.
Jean Genet is my saint. My number one and two novels, in any language, would be The Thief's Journal and Miracle of the Rose.
A Rebours and La Bas by J.K. Huysmans would be next after Genet's novels.
Baudelaire is the greatest poet of all time, excepting Homer, Nerval was the most beautiful soul who ever lived, and Theophile Gautier and Alexandre Dumas are the two figures in literature I would most like to have dinner with. They were such jolly, charming fellows.
I am a Dumas fanatic. The Marie Antoinette series is my favorite.
Marie Antoinette Series:
Joseph Balsamo1589632249
the Memoirs of a Physician1589632133
The Queens Necklace1589632095
Taking the Bastille1589632389
The Countess de Charney1589632303
The Chevalier de Maison Rouge158963229x
Of his other novels Georges and Le Reine Margot stand out as favorites. I also love his non-fiction Celebrated Crimes.
All lists are in alphabetical order.
Poets:
Baudelaire
Chateaubriand
Lautreamont
Mallarme
Nerval
Rimbaud
Verlaine
Vivien(English, but she lived in Paris and wrote in french)
I haven't gotten to Apollinaire yet. I'm embarrassed to admit it.
Playwrights:
Artaud
Genet
Moliere
Racine
Sartre
Novelists:
Balzac
de Sade
Dumas
Gautier
Genet
Gracq
Huysmans
Lorrain
Proust
Rabelais
Rachilde
Stendhal
Verne
Villiers de l'Isle-Adam
Zola
I know that's way too many. I did the best I could.
I'm not saying anyone should alter their own list. I think it's fun and useful to compare favorites.
I love The Little Prince too. I'm also a sentimental fool...with some issues. Jules Verne is a childhood favorite I still have great fondness for.
Jean Genet is my saint. My number one and two novels, in any language, would be The Thief's Journal and Miracle of the Rose.
A Rebours and La Bas by J.K. Huysmans would be next after Genet's novels.
Baudelaire is the greatest poet of all time, excepting Homer, Nerval was the most beautiful soul who ever lived, and Theophile Gautier and Alexandre Dumas are the two figures in literature I would most like to have dinner with. They were such jolly, charming fellows.
I am a Dumas fanatic. The Marie Antoinette series is my favorite.
Marie Antoinette Series:
Joseph Balsamo1589632249
the Memoirs of a Physician1589632133
The Queens Necklace1589632095
Taking the Bastille1589632389
The Countess de Charney1589632303
The Chevalier de Maison Rouge158963229x
Of his other novels Georges and Le Reine Margot stand out as favorites. I also love his non-fiction Celebrated Crimes.
53slickdpdx
Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I've now got to run out and get the Marie Antoinette series!
55absurdeist
That's fantastic! I've always wondered is there more to Dumas than The Count... and The 3 Musketeers... yes, indeed there is, thanks to you, Mr. X!
What do you think of Our Lady of the Flowers? Where does it rate among Genet's work?
What do you think of Our Lady of the Flowers? Where does it rate among Genet's work?
56DavidX
Our Lady of the Flowers was Genet's first novel, written in prison, his own private fantasy world, a masterpiece. I love all his novels, plays, and poems.
My ranking of the Genet novels.
The Thief's Journal
Miracle of the Rose
Our Lady of the Flowers
Funeral Rites
Querelle
Prisoner of Love
Divine of John Water's fame got her/his name from Lady Divine in Our Lady of the Flowers incidentally.
My ranking of the Genet novels.
The Thief's Journal
Miracle of the Rose
Our Lady of the Flowers
Funeral Rites
Querelle
Prisoner of Love
Divine of John Water's fame got her/his name from Lady Divine in Our Lady of the Flowers incidentally.
57A_musing
OK, gang, quick survey. Reading DavidX's posts above we all feel:
(a) Awed (by the scope of his knowledge of French lit);
(b) Ignorant and unread;
(c) Eager (to get reading) (while checking pockets soon to be emptied by amazon et al.);
(d) Eager (to draft DavidX for next summer's "Proust Cabal");
(e) All of the above.
So, David, are any of those Dumas books appropriate to read to a 9 year old whose recent books include Journey to the West, the Illiad and Gilgamesh? Or should I stick with the Count and the Musketeers? And could some of that Marie Antoinette series be appropriate for reading with a 12 year girl who is crazy about history?
(a) Awed (by the scope of his knowledge of French lit);
(b) Ignorant and unread;
(c) Eager (to get reading) (while checking pockets soon to be emptied by amazon et al.);
(d) Eager (to draft DavidX for next summer's "Proust Cabal");
(e) All of the above.
So, David, are any of those Dumas books appropriate to read to a 9 year old whose recent books include Journey to the West, the Illiad and Gilgamesh? Or should I stick with the Count and the Musketeers? And could some of that Marie Antoinette series be appropriate for reading with a 12 year girl who is crazy about history?
58Third_cheek
A rebours is a tasty novel, but La Bas? For me, Houellebecq's Atomised has more literary merit than La Bas among the shock-lit genre, not that I think it's especially good.
For myself, I'd want Laclos's Les Liasons Dangereuses.
Not much contemporary French literature among the suggestions so far, so what about Marie Darrieussecq and Andrei Makine?
59polutropos
Not that I think either of these could possibly displace anything on David's original lists, but only as an addition to #58, if we start adding contemporary, then Duras and Sagan need to be mentioned.
60anna_in_pdx
57: (e) for me....
61lilisin
Alright. I'm usually a lurker with this group but being French, I have to churp in!
One of the great French authors that gets overlooked has to be Romain Gary. Very famous in France but not well known outside. His Les Racines du ciel (The Roots of Heaven) is just extraordinary reading. Unfortunately he hasn't been re-published in English since about 1950 or so so you have to find used copies on amazon, etc... But should not be missed!
For modern authors I think JMG Le Clezio needs some mention. Patrick Modiano is also very famous in France and deserves mention.
For the classics I have to go with Dumas and Hugo (Les Mis is great but Notre-Dame is quite incredible) as my favorites.
I've read a lot of other modern French lit but, although quite good, I don't know if they belong amongst "the greats!".
One of the great French authors that gets overlooked has to be Romain Gary. Very famous in France but not well known outside. His Les Racines du ciel (The Roots of Heaven) is just extraordinary reading. Unfortunately he hasn't been re-published in English since about 1950 or so so you have to find used copies on amazon, etc... But should not be missed!
For modern authors I think JMG Le Clezio needs some mention. Patrick Modiano is also very famous in France and deserves mention.
For the classics I have to go with Dumas and Hugo (Les Mis is great but Notre-Dame is quite incredible) as my favorites.
I've read a lot of other modern French lit but, although quite good, I don't know if they belong amongst "the greats!".
62anna_in_pdx
61: Merci for your input! I have Le Desert but have not read it yet. I will have to look for Romain Gary, who I had not heard of before.
I loved The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Looking forward to reading Les Miserables next month with this group.
I loved The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Looking forward to reading Les Miserables next month with this group.
63Third_cheek
61>
I'm not so sure about Le Clezio (though I've only read him in translation). Although I guess that on the basis of his Nobel Prize we can expect him to do something great in the future.
It's a cheap joke, sorry.
I'm not so sure about Le Clezio (though I've only read him in translation). Although I guess that on the basis of his Nobel Prize we can expect him to do something great in the future.
It's a cheap joke, sorry.
64lilisin
No, no, the joke was good. :)
That's why though I only said Le Clezio needed mention and not Hugo-like praise. I'm quite partial to Le Clezio's "L'africain" but only because it gave me a wonderful glimpse into my mother's childhood growing up in Senegal.
That's why though I only said Le Clezio needed mention and not Hugo-like praise. I'm quite partial to Le Clezio's "L'africain" but only because it gave me a wonderful glimpse into my mother's childhood growing up in Senegal.
65slickdpdx
63: His op-ed yesterday or the day before in the NY TIMES was worse than nothing special. But, that's certainly not the correct measuring stick.
66anna_in_pdx
65: Well, that's a low bar. Most op-eds in the NY Times are much worse than nothing special.
67slickdpdx
Sorry, it was Sunday, which if I had thought about it would be obvious. It seemed a promising enough topic.
The Savage Detective
By J. M. G. Le CLÉZIO
Claude Lévi-Strauss, the last great French philosopher, reshaped the simple art of gathering information about so-called primitives.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/opinion/08le-clezio.html?th&emc=th
The Savage Detective
By J. M. G. Le CLÉZIO
Claude Lévi-Strauss, the last great French philosopher, reshaped the simple art of gathering information about so-called primitives.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/opinion/08le-clezio.html?th&emc=th
68DavidX
As a 45 year old 9 year old I would say pretty much anything by Dumas or Verne would be ideal for a 9 year old. Dumas' Camptain Pamphile and Georges would be excellent choices. Gautier's Captain Fracasse would be a wonderful story for a 9 year old as well.
Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame is another favorite from childhood. I reread it a couple of years ago and it was every bit as wonderful as I remembered it. I have not yet read Les Mis.
I read Swann's Way years ago but have yet to read the rest of In Search of Lost Time. It is on my life goal list.
Moby Dick was my favorite book when I was eleven. But Clarel I will never read, I assure you. Life is much too short.
I have read none of these contemporary authors. I very rarely read something by a living author. Just because there are so many incredible dead authors left for me to read. I will make note of the modern authors mentioned for my I should probably make myself read this list.
It is not so much the shock factor of La Bas that I like. It is Huysmans beautiful writing. The bit about the bell ringer is my favorite part. I have had a crush on Huysmans since I was a teen.
A_Musing, I am very impressed that your 9 year old is reading The Iliad. I have hope for the future now.
Sadly, I cannot read or speak a word of French. I hope to learn enough before I die to read a few lines of my beloved Baudelaire in the original language.
I am a self educated art school drop out. You are all much smarter than me. What I do have is passion and enthusiasm for great literature and art.
I think these lists are very helpful as recommended reading lists. Maybe not limiting them to a top ten is a good idea.
Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame is another favorite from childhood. I reread it a couple of years ago and it was every bit as wonderful as I remembered it. I have not yet read Les Mis.
I read Swann's Way years ago but have yet to read the rest of In Search of Lost Time. It is on my life goal list.
Moby Dick was my favorite book when I was eleven. But Clarel I will never read, I assure you. Life is much too short.
I have read none of these contemporary authors. I very rarely read something by a living author. Just because there are so many incredible dead authors left for me to read. I will make note of the modern authors mentioned for my I should probably make myself read this list.
It is not so much the shock factor of La Bas that I like. It is Huysmans beautiful writing. The bit about the bell ringer is my favorite part. I have had a crush on Huysmans since I was a teen.
A_Musing, I am very impressed that your 9 year old is reading The Iliad. I have hope for the future now.
Sadly, I cannot read or speak a word of French. I hope to learn enough before I die to read a few lines of my beloved Baudelaire in the original language.
I am a self educated art school drop out. You are all much smarter than me. What I do have is passion and enthusiasm for great literature and art.
I think these lists are very helpful as recommended reading lists. Maybe not limiting them to a top ten is a good idea.
69polutropos
David #68
Behind me on a bulletin board I have an Einstein quote: "I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious."
That is in reference to your self-deprecating "I only have passion and enthusiasm". THAT is what it takes, man. You have that, and there are no limits.
Thank you for sharing your passion and enthusiasm. We are richer for it.
Behind me on a bulletin board I have an Einstein quote: "I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious."
That is in reference to your self-deprecating "I only have passion and enthusiasm". THAT is what it takes, man. You have that, and there are no limits.
Thank you for sharing your passion and enthusiasm. We are richer for it.
71absurdeist
I agree with cowboy in #15, Perec is a must.
And tell me, where the hell is Colette on this list? Abominable list w/out mention of The Claudine Novels.
And tell me, where the hell is Colette on this list? Abominable list w/out mention of The Claudine Novels.
72DavidX
71. Yes, Colette should definitely be on the list, as well as George Sand.
Celine belongs on the list too. He was a very nasty man and a great writer. Journey to the Edge of the Night and Death on the Installment Plan are important books because they are so uniquely unrepentantly hateful and so well written. On my bad mood days I channel Celine.
I will add Camus for Mac. I left him off my list because he was jealous of Genet because Sartre called Genet the greatest writer of the twentieth century and for that I had to punish him.
And A-Void looks awesome. I must order a copy.
70. Hidey ho Porius. Cathedral is exquisite. The description of Chartres and it's history in the beginning used to be published as a pamphlet for tourists visiting the cathedral. I would love to find one of those. I want to be des Essientes/Durtal.
I left off philosophers entirely. The greatest poets, novelists, playwrights, and philosophers are french. This list could go on and on and on.
Re: The Count of Monte Cristo.
Just before writing Monte Cristo, Dumas wrote Georges. It's the story of the son of a mulatto(like Dumas) planter in the Isle de France. He strikes the son of the wealthiest white planter on the island for insulting his father and treating him as an inferior because of his race and is sent away to France by his father for his protection. He rises to the top of French society and later returns to Isle de France to avenge the social injustice done to his family. It is a story about avenging social injustice, like Monte Cristo. Which is something, I, and many other people relate to, hence the popularity.
I didn't mean to leave Hugo of my list, likely the result of synaptic failure(brain fart).
I had to correct this post because I inadvertantly wrote Notre Dame instead of Chartres as Huysmans Cathedral. Which I take as a sign it's time to reread it.
Celine belongs on the list too. He was a very nasty man and a great writer. Journey to the Edge of the Night and Death on the Installment Plan are important books because they are so uniquely unrepentantly hateful and so well written. On my bad mood days I channel Celine.
I will add Camus for Mac. I left him off my list because he was jealous of Genet because Sartre called Genet the greatest writer of the twentieth century and for that I had to punish him.
And A-Void looks awesome. I must order a copy.
70. Hidey ho Porius. Cathedral is exquisite. The description of Chartres and it's history in the beginning used to be published as a pamphlet for tourists visiting the cathedral. I would love to find one of those. I want to be des Essientes/Durtal.
I left off philosophers entirely. The greatest poets, novelists, playwrights, and philosophers are french. This list could go on and on and on.
Re: The Count of Monte Cristo.
Just before writing Monte Cristo, Dumas wrote Georges. It's the story of the son of a mulatto(like Dumas) planter in the Isle de France. He strikes the son of the wealthiest white planter on the island for insulting his father and treating him as an inferior because of his race and is sent away to France by his father for his protection. He rises to the top of French society and later returns to Isle de France to avenge the social injustice done to his family. It is a story about avenging social injustice, like Monte Cristo. Which is something, I, and many other people relate to, hence the popularity.
I didn't mean to leave Hugo of my list, likely the result of synaptic failure(brain fart).
I had to correct this post because I inadvertantly wrote Notre Dame instead of Chartres as Huysmans Cathedral. Which I take as a sign it's time to reread it.
73Third_cheek
68> There's an excellent translation of Les Fleurs du Mal in the Oxford Classics series - English/French side by side, give it a go...
I read A-Void years ago and thought little other than how clever Perec obviously was. It's an impressive formal exercise but beyond that I didn't think so much of it. The collection of Perec's essays and fragments - 'Species of spaces and other pieces' - is worth a look.
Claude Levi-Strauss was a surprisingly entertaining writer, if not exactly a philosopher - his Tristes Tropiques is a great read, especially in conjunction with Derrida's Of Grammatology (though you probably all already know this). I was lucky enough to attend a Derrida lecture... he was obviously peddling the same line on just about everything in his final years, and he admitted as much, but he was also funny - something I hadn't expected.
Philosophers - Simone de Beauvoir and Simone Weil anyone?
I read A-Void years ago and thought little other than how clever Perec obviously was. It's an impressive formal exercise but beyond that I didn't think so much of it. The collection of Perec's essays and fragments - 'Species of spaces and other pieces' - is worth a look.
Claude Levi-Strauss was a surprisingly entertaining writer, if not exactly a philosopher - his Tristes Tropiques is a great read, especially in conjunction with Derrida's Of Grammatology (though you probably all already know this). I was lucky enough to attend a Derrida lecture... he was obviously peddling the same line on just about everything in his final years, and he admitted as much, but he was also funny - something I hadn't expected.
Philosophers - Simone de Beauvoir and Simone Weil anyone?
74DavidX
I enjoyed the Derrida documentary done shortly before his death. For me, it is much easier, and more fun, to follow Derrida talking than to read him. And yes, he was quite funny.
75DavidX
Simone de Beauvoir should definitely be on the philosopher list. Has any one mentioned Foucault yet? I'm afraid I'm ignorant of Simone Weil(adding to tbr list immediately).
Have Voltaire, Rousseau, and Diderot been mentioned yet?
There are just so many great french authors, poets, playwrights, and philosophers. These lists may have to break up into subcategories.
Have Voltaire, Rousseau, and Diderot been mentioned yet?
There are just so many great french authors, poets, playwrights, and philosophers. These lists may have to break up into subcategories.
76Third_cheek
>75 DavidX: I think they've all had a mention. Though they could do with more support. I think the list is based on the merit of fiction more than on general literary merit, sadly. I propose La Nouvelle Eloise en lieu of Reveries of a solitary walker, which would be my preferred Rousseau.
As to Simone Weil. There are several collections, some focusing on the more religious/mystical writings (which aren't really my taste - eg 'Gravity and Grace') and others on the more broadly secular. I'd recommend her essay on the Iliad - The Iliad, or the poem of force and Oppression and Liberty.
A good general collection is that edited by Sian Miles.
As to Simone Weil. There are several collections, some focusing on the more religious/mystical writings (which aren't really my taste - eg 'Gravity and Grace') and others on the more broadly secular. I'd recommend her essay on the Iliad - The Iliad, or the poem of force and Oppression and Liberty.
A good general collection is that edited by Sian Miles.
77DavidX
Ditto on Eloise and Reveries of a Solitary Walker. Rousseau is a character in Dumas' Marie Antoinette Series incidentally. Dumas' characterization paints a very endearing portrait of Rousseau. It still makes me smile to think of it.
Thank you for the information on Simone Weil. I'll put it to good use.
Thank you for the information on Simone Weil. I'll put it to good use.
78devondoyle
What about George Bataille? His book Story of the Eye surely belongs here?
79tomcatMurr
Simone Weil was a sanctimonious prude who needed a good.... you- know-what. She would have been a lot happier.
80copyedit52
post 72:
"Journey to the Edge of the Night and Death on the Installment Plan are important books because they are so uniquely unrepentantly hateful and so well written."
I agree. And when I'm in the mood for essays, Montaigne.
For phenomenogy: Henri Bergson
For so-called mystery, or novels of detection: Sebastien Japrisot, though perhaps because I've read him more recently than others, including Simenon, and was surprised that he's not as well known as he should be. Jean-Claude Izzo is okay too.
For lucidity, Camus, of course, and, because he is so obscure, Henri de Monfreid, who wrote (I've read) 89 books, only one of which has been translated into English: Adventures of a Red Sea Smuggler, also published, simply, as Hashish.
"Journey to the Edge of the Night and Death on the Installment Plan are important books because they are so uniquely unrepentantly hateful and so well written."
I agree. And when I'm in the mood for essays, Montaigne.
For phenomenogy: Henri Bergson
For so-called mystery, or novels of detection: Sebastien Japrisot, though perhaps because I've read him more recently than others, including Simenon, and was surprised that he's not as well known as he should be. Jean-Claude Izzo is okay too.
For lucidity, Camus, of course, and, because he is so obscure, Henri de Monfreid, who wrote (I've read) 89 books, only one of which has been translated into English: Adventures of a Red Sea Smuggler, also published, simply, as Hashish.
81unlucky
Re: Third Cheek: I think to some extent Weil's mystical ideas found in Gravity and Grace can be secularized, though. Several of her ideas- but especially her concept of attention and its relation to justice- are found mostly or only on her spiritual work and are some of her most philosophically interesting contributions even if their origin is theological.
Her essays The Power of Words and Human Personality are also notable works.
And Tomcatmurr: she was an exemplary individual who fought oppression her entire life and died because of her compassion for others and her inability to shake her sense of responsibility. A little respect, I think, is owed to her.
Her essays The Power of Words and Human Personality are also notable works.
And Tomcatmurr: she was an exemplary individual who fought oppression her entire life and died because of her compassion for others and her inability to shake her sense of responsibility. A little respect, I think, is owed to her.
82LolaWalser
Le petit prince, like it's even up for discussion. (And no, no one cares if you find it either heartwarming or sickening.)
Sorry.
Encore un effort, les scribouillards!
Sorry.
Encore un effort, les scribouillards!
83rolandperkins
He may not have been prolific, but there's little
doubt, to my mind that Albert Camus (who was
of Algerian Birth, and was part Spanish) is the
greatest French writer of them all
doubt, to my mind that Albert Camus (who was
of Algerian Birth, and was part Spanish) is the
greatest French writer of them all
84LolaWalser
Will the provocations never end! :)
Hi, Roland--fascinating choice (see >1 Macumbeira:), I hope they'll bite, les Camuseaux...
Hi, Roland--fascinating choice (see >1 Macumbeira:), I hope they'll bite, les Camuseaux...
85dypaloh
Provocations? I don’t know, except this Alcamust fella . . . he seems some stranger or rebel philosopher stoned on visions provoked by the mythos of syphilis.
86LolaWalser
>85 dypaloh:
Brilliant observation, dypaloh! Dead centre on the missing link between the glory that was Al-Andalus and the starry gutter of Rimbaud.
What can Camusolini teach us about the difficulties of reconciling the franks and les beurs today, we wonder...
Brilliant observation, dypaloh! Dead centre on the missing link between the glory that was Al-Andalus and the starry gutter of Rimbaud.
What can Camusolini teach us about the difficulties of reconciling the franks and les beurs today, we wonder...
87Macumbeira
Lola, tu veux le beurre et le franc du beurre. C'est l'un ou l'autre.
88LolaWalser
Nom d'un nom de nomnomnom! Les croissants au beurre pour tout le monde!
Does it not worry you Mac that we still haven't identified the best French book... do you suppose... it might have been... whispers ***written by a Belgian***
Does it not worry you Mac that we still haven't identified the best French book... do you suppose... it might have been... whispers ***written by a Belgian***
89Macumbeira
Must have been. Those Gauls steal our artists. Brel, Axelle Red, Johnny Halliday and so many others.
But writers ? Let me think...Georges Simenon ? Marguerite Yourcenar ?
But writers ? Let me think...Georges Simenon ? Marguerite Yourcenar ?
90LolaWalser
Huysmans? Rodenbach? VercorsHAEREN?
91Crypto-Willobie
Candide?
Andre Gide: "Victor Hugo, alas!"
Andre Gide: "Victor Hugo, alas!"
92LolaWalser
Yeah, I never got that. I suspect it's a joke of some kind.