THE ROBBER BRIDE - rolling book discussion - July '09 onwards...
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1avaland
Just setting up a thread in preparation.
For those of you who like discussion questions, here's some from her US publisher.:
Topics for Group Discussion:
Note: some of these questions relate to material on the publisher's website. See link below.
1. In The Robber Bride Tony says that people like Zenia don't get into your life unless you invite them in. What devices does Zenia use to first gain entry into the lives of Tony, Charis, and Roz? How does she alter her techniques to attract and control men?
2. Is there one character you identify with more than others? Why?
3. On the surface, Tony, Charis, and Roz are not a bit alike yet similarities exist. For example, during their childhoods they each developed what could be called "dual" identities. How do the psychological devices they developed as children help or hinder them? In what ways do their own children differ from them?
4. While seeming all powerful, the constantly changing Zenia lacks a center of her own. Is it possible for women to achieve the same kinds of power that men do in today's society, or do they have to break rules and operate as outlaws? Discuss Charis's grandmother. Do women have a kind of power that is different from male power?
5. Magic can mean two things: sleight of hand played by stage magicians, and true "magic," or supernatural ability. What role does each kind of "magic" play in the novel, if any?
6. The name of the restaurant where Zenia reappears is called The Toxique. What role does naming--of persons and places--play in this novel?
7. War provides a subtext, and even possibly a framework, for this novel. The male characters are not the only ones affected by it. How are the others affected? How is Zenia affected? Which wars are mentioned?
8. Read the poem "The Robber Bridegroom," reversing gender as you read. What does this poem, taken together with the poem "She," tell us about the nature of evil?
9. Discuss the poem "The Loneliness of the Military Historian". What does it tell us about differences between the way men and women traditionally deal with violence? Does Atwood make a value judgment?
10. The American writer Lewis Hyde has asked, "Why is the Trickster the Messenger of the Gods?" Is Zenia a trickster? Is she also a messenger of the gods, and how?
11. Is there a difference between the lies others tell and Zenia's lies? Are there "good" lies and "bad" lies? Do the hearers play a role in the construction of these lies?
12. Think of female villains from literature and film. What do they seem to have in common? Is female villainy different from the male variety?
13. William Blake said of Milton's Paradise Lost that Milton often seemed to be of the devil's part without knowing it. Does Atwood have a sneaking sympathy for Zenia? Do you?
There are some additional, intriguing resources HERE on the publisher's website. There is the original Grimm's fairy tale: "The Robber Bridegroom", a review, and an address Margaret Atwood made to the American Booksellers Association regarding the book.
Perhaps we can post our overall responses to the book and then address whatever particular points we would like to. If we have any questions for others, put them out there.
For those of you who like discussion questions, here's some from her US publisher.:
Topics for Group Discussion:
Note: some of these questions relate to material on the publisher's website. See link below.
1. In The Robber Bride Tony says that people like Zenia don't get into your life unless you invite them in. What devices does Zenia use to first gain entry into the lives of Tony, Charis, and Roz? How does she alter her techniques to attract and control men?
2. Is there one character you identify with more than others? Why?
3. On the surface, Tony, Charis, and Roz are not a bit alike yet similarities exist. For example, during their childhoods they each developed what could be called "dual" identities. How do the psychological devices they developed as children help or hinder them? In what ways do their own children differ from them?
4. While seeming all powerful, the constantly changing Zenia lacks a center of her own. Is it possible for women to achieve the same kinds of power that men do in today's society, or do they have to break rules and operate as outlaws? Discuss Charis's grandmother. Do women have a kind of power that is different from male power?
5. Magic can mean two things: sleight of hand played by stage magicians, and true "magic," or supernatural ability. What role does each kind of "magic" play in the novel, if any?
6. The name of the restaurant where Zenia reappears is called The Toxique. What role does naming--of persons and places--play in this novel?
7. War provides a subtext, and even possibly a framework, for this novel. The male characters are not the only ones affected by it. How are the others affected? How is Zenia affected? Which wars are mentioned?
8. Read the poem "The Robber Bridegroom," reversing gender as you read. What does this poem, taken together with the poem "She," tell us about the nature of evil?
9. Discuss the poem "The Loneliness of the Military Historian". What does it tell us about differences between the way men and women traditionally deal with violence? Does Atwood make a value judgment?
10. The American writer Lewis Hyde has asked, "Why is the Trickster the Messenger of the Gods?" Is Zenia a trickster? Is she also a messenger of the gods, and how?
11. Is there a difference between the lies others tell and Zenia's lies? Are there "good" lies and "bad" lies? Do the hearers play a role in the construction of these lies?
12. Think of female villains from literature and film. What do they seem to have in common? Is female villainy different from the male variety?
13. William Blake said of Milton's Paradise Lost that Milton often seemed to be of the devil's part without knowing it. Does Atwood have a sneaking sympathy for Zenia? Do you?
There are some additional, intriguing resources HERE on the publisher's website. There is the original Grimm's fairy tale: "The Robber Bridegroom", a review, and an address Margaret Atwood made to the American Booksellers Association regarding the book.
Perhaps we can post our overall responses to the book and then address whatever particular points we would like to. If we have any questions for others, put them out there.
2Nickelini
Would it be an unpardonable sin if I posted here at the end of June? I'd like to read this before my holidays, but I won't be near a computer in July.
3janeajones
Oh horror of horrors -- an early poster!
Certainly, I would think you could post here as the thread is up -- you'll give us all inspiration.
Certainly, I would think you could post here as the thread is up -- you'll give us all inspiration.
4avaland
>2 Nickelini: sure, I agree with Jane, go ahead. I may post early also as I have just finished the book.
5avaland
I just noticed Beatles1964's thread from a year ago also titled 'The Robber Bride' where she listed some discussion questions. They appear to be the same questions I found at the publisher's site online. Apologies, Beatles, that we didn't get to reading it until this year!
6Nickelini
Who out there is in on this group read? I'm on page 377 out of 529, and am absolutely loving this book! I think it might be my favourite Atwood yet (I've read Oryx and Crake, the Handmaid's Tale, Surfacing, The Penelopiad and Alias Grace. I liked all of those too, but not as much as this one). I should finish in the next day or so and will be back to comment on the above questions.
8jdthloue
it will be a re-read for me...and i probably won't get to it for another week or so...but i have my old copy that is full of barely decipherable marginalia.....love that "scribbling in books"......
9neverlistless
I'm also rereading this one for this group. I started in May, but put it aside for a while... I'm going to try to finish this weekend.
Thanks for posting the questions Lois!
Thanks for posting the questions Lois!
10Nickelini
My edition of the book had the same list of questions as the above list, so I've been thinking about them while reading.
2. Is there one character you identify with more than others? Why?
When I started reading Charis's story, my first reaction was that I was going have to endure her--I'm soooo not into new agey airy fairy stuff (my yoga is all about fitness and not about my chakras). But I quickly was drawn to her, and found her the most interesting character. Right now I can relate to feeling very sensitive and easily bruised by the cruel real world, and I'm definitely a pacifist at heart. I really liked how she sought gentle and positive emotions. And I thought it was way cool how she could see people's coloured auras. I'd like to have that gift (wouldn't that make life easier? "Whoa, ugly brown-grey oozing off him, let's go the other direction".) However, I also agree with Roz when she describes Charis as "an endearing nincompoop". Charis is way more gullible than I am--she's so trusting of people, whereas I'm a skeptic and an analyst.
The other character I related to quite a bit was Tony, because I can relate to her academic passion.
2. Is there one character you identify with more than others? Why?
When I started reading Charis's story, my first reaction was that I was going have to endure her--I'm soooo not into new agey airy fairy stuff (my yoga is all about fitness and not about my chakras). But I quickly was drawn to her, and found her the most interesting character. Right now I can relate to feeling very sensitive and easily bruised by the cruel real world, and I'm definitely a pacifist at heart. I really liked how she sought gentle and positive emotions. And I thought it was way cool how she could see people's coloured auras. I'd like to have that gift (wouldn't that make life easier? "Whoa, ugly brown-grey oozing off him, let's go the other direction".) However, I also agree with Roz when she describes Charis as "an endearing nincompoop". Charis is way more gullible than I am--she's so trusting of people, whereas I'm a skeptic and an analyst.
The other character I related to quite a bit was Tony, because I can relate to her academic passion.
11Nickelini
13. William Blake said of Milton's Paradise Lost that Milton often seemed to be of the devil's part without knowing it. Does Atwood have a sneaking sympathy for Zenia? Do you?
I think most writers have a fondness for all their characters on some level. In this novel, I think this shows in how Roz, Tony and Charis are drawn to Zenia, and how they WANT to believe in her.
But do I like Zenia? No way. For one thing, she's not real. I never see her motivation, so I can't sympathize. And I really dislike liars. But she's interesting!
I think most writers have a fondness for all their characters on some level. In this novel, I think this shows in how Roz, Tony and Charis are drawn to Zenia, and how they WANT to believe in her.
But do I like Zenia? No way. For one thing, she's not real. I never see her motivation, so I can't sympathize. And I really dislike liars. But she's interesting!
12avaland
>6 Nickelini: I really loved the book during this rereading. Couldn't remember it much about it from the first reading.
>10 Nickelini: I actually thought I identified with all three. As each was introduced, I switched allegiances, so to speak.
>11 Nickelini: Zenia is powerful and certainly that can be attractive in its own way. She's aggressive and goes after (and then takes) what she wants. And she seduces the other women by telling stories that not only feed into their vulnerabilities but also allegedly exposes her own (lies!) (actually this is a bit of question #1 also)
>10 Nickelini: I actually thought I identified with all three. As each was introduced, I switched allegiances, so to speak.
>11 Nickelini: Zenia is powerful and certainly that can be attractive in its own way. She's aggressive and goes after (and then takes) what she wants. And she seduces the other women by telling stories that not only feed into their vulnerabilities but also allegedly exposes her own (lies!) (actually this is a bit of question #1 also)
13torontoc
I loved this book. Atwood's character development is superb.The individual women and their situations are so well written. The descriptions of the Toronto Island and Queen Street in Toronto obviously resonated with me as I know those places. ( I'm pretty sure that the restaurant "Toxique" is a take-off on one called " Peter Pan" on Queen St.)
The plot kept me interested as we figure out what happened to Zenia.
This was a re-read and it reminded me how I always wait for the latest Atwood book to be published.
The plot kept me interested as we figure out what happened to Zenia.
This was a re-read and it reminded me how I always wait for the latest Atwood book to be published.
14avaland
>13 torontoc: have to agree with you, torontoc. I've been a bit preoccupied so haven't been in here much; things should lighten up a little for me after this weekend.
My questions echoes one of the reading group questions above. Are the three women complicit in some way in their own victimization? And what, if anything, could they have done to prevent any of what they have suffered. And would being invulnerable to Zenia's tricks (or lack of a better word at the moment) make them less who they are or less caring as human beings...
Would they have gone to the funeral if they lawyer hadn't called them and made the request on Zenia's behalf?
My questions echoes one of the reading group questions above. Are the three women complicit in some way in their own victimization? And what, if anything, could they have done to prevent any of what they have suffered. And would being invulnerable to Zenia's tricks (or lack of a better word at the moment) make them less who they are or less caring as human beings...
Would they have gone to the funeral if they lawyer hadn't called them and made the request on Zenia's behalf?
15torontoc
I think that the three women would have gone to the funeral- morbid curiosity and the sense that they wanted closure.
As far as the question about victimization- not really at first- they were fascinated with Zenia and I think that no one really believes that a " friend" would treat them so badly-The rest I have to think about-
As far as the question about victimization- not really at first- they were fascinated with Zenia and I think that no one really believes that a " friend" would treat them so badly-The rest I have to think about-
16janeajones
Hah! I had forgotten what a wonderfully delightful, engrossing and wicked book The Robber Bride is. Truly Atwood at her best. I do remember that my husband also thought it was particularly well written and funny when he read it when it first came out.
But what struck me this time through was the mythic dimension of the tale. Zenia is the dark side of Tony, Charis, and Roz -- what Diane Wolkstein calls the witchy, bitchy, miserable, woman -- Ereshkigal, Inanna's dark sister, whom Inanna must descend into the underworld to meet in order to come to the full realization of herself.
It's one of the oldest recorded myths in history -- Inanna -- "The Descent of Inanna": http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr141.htm
But Atwood's reinterpretation is thoroughly modern, and the trio of heroines also slyly resemble the three fairies in Disney's Sleeping Beauty as well as The Witches of Eastwick (originally published in 1984).
But what struck me this time through was the mythic dimension of the tale. Zenia is the dark side of Tony, Charis, and Roz -- what Diane Wolkstein calls the witchy, bitchy, miserable, woman -- Ereshkigal, Inanna's dark sister, whom Inanna must descend into the underworld to meet in order to come to the full realization of herself.
It's one of the oldest recorded myths in history -- Inanna -- "The Descent of Inanna": http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr141.htm
But Atwood's reinterpretation is thoroughly modern, and the trio of heroines also slyly resemble the three fairies in Disney's Sleeping Beauty as well as The Witches of Eastwick (originally published in 1984).
17avaland
>16 janeajones: Jane, what fascinating insights! I love your "engrossing and wicked" book! Yes, agree about the dark side. Atwood is brilliant!
18Nickelini
The July August 2012 issue of The Walrus features a new short story by Atwood that uses characters from The Robber Bride. I haven't read it yet, but you can find it online at: http://walrusmagazine.com/articles/2012.07-summer-reading-i-dream-of-zenia-with-...
