What's your favorite Wolfe book, and why?

I know, I know -- it sounds like one of those dreadful "What I did on my summer vacations" assignments, doesn't it?

Sorry, I don't mean to be so teacher-ish, but this is a game my dad and I used to play, and I have no one around to play it with anymore! My kids don't read Stout, (the more fools they), and my dad, at 81, tends to be much more into W. E. B. Griffin these days. He doesn't dip back into the Wolfe books as much as he used to.

And I'm generally interested in not only what people think, but why they think it.

So here goes: I can't narrow my favorite Wolfe books down to one. My very favorites, however, are:
The Doorbell Rang -- I just love the idea of Wolfe taking on "the big fish" himself, and the scene where Archie confronts the FBI agents is still one of my very favorites.

The Black Mountain -- even though it's atypical Wolfe, I delight in seeing Wolfe stay in command of everything even when he's being interrogated by the Yugoslavian police.

Too Many Cooks -- this might just be a sentimental favorite, b/c it was the first Nero Wolfe book I read, but I still find it a wonderful romp, though I try not to read it on an empty stomach!

I agree with 2 of your choices and your reasons. The Black Mountain was a favourite, but I have found that it less enjoyable on re-readings, probably because it is action rather than character based.

My enjoyment is directly proportional to either Wolfe's discomfort - physical or emotional, or the emergence of a strong and attractive character. Wolfe under any form of stress is a particular joy and when Stout nails a character, it is instant empathy.

The Doorbell Rang: I would add the final scene between Archie and Saul: one of the (very) few where Archie trumps Saul. It is also an extremely effective statement against the abuse of power. Rachel Bruner is one of those characters.

Too Many Cooks: Also the first Wolfe book I read. Wolfe simpering and pandering to fellow a genius, in an attempt to procure the recipe for saucisse minuit is a delight, as his distress at confusing shallots with chives. I also rather like Stout's characterisation of the odious little Gershom Odell.

The Silent Speaker: One of Stout's better mysteries. Phoebe Gunther, however, is the main reason for inclusion in this list: principled and beautiful, and seemingly immune to Archies charm. Phoebe Gunther's only rival is Julie Jaquette from Death of a Doxy; but I suspect my admiration for Julie Jaquette has as much to do with Kari Matchett's portrayal of her for TV, as for the character.

I have not yet read all the books but I do have two that stand out as favorites.

The Doorbell Rang by far, Wolfe, alone, standing up to the most powerful man in America is just wonderful.

Number two may not be on anyone else’s list; I think it is a very upsetting book to read, A Family Affair. Stout really demonstrates that the crew is really a family and how hard it is to loose one of their own.

Ooh! Good topic. Is there a limit? I would rank The League of Frightened Men, Some Buried Caesar (Lily at her best), Too Many Women (I just found this one amusing!), In The Best Families and If Death Ever Slept for Archie-centric stories, and Champagne For One. If I can only have one favourite, it would probably have to be the latter - I love the episode, too.

AdonisGuilfoyle: There's absolutely no limit -- I'm just interested in WHY fans like the books they do. I have to say that I too love A Family Affair -- to me it is a fitting end to the series -- isn't it the last Wolfe book Stout wrote? I agree with TLCrawford that this books shows just how tightly knit the group has become.

I also have to second AdonisGuilfoyle's (what a great screen name! Is it the name of a literary character? It sounds tantalizingly familiar.) vote for Some Buried Caesar - I enjoy rereading it often, as a touchstone for Lily's growth as a character. What I love about Lily is that Stout has her maintain her essential independence and feistiness throughout the entire series.

And Death of A Doxy is one of my favorites, as well, in large part because of Julie Jaquette.

SPOILER warning:
I also love In The Best Families for many reasons -- one of which is Stout's skillful replaying of Sherlock Holmes at the Reichenback Falls theme. Brilliant! And the whole bit with Lily's "Houri de Perse" -- what a great bit of theater.

Speaking of theater, and going a little off-topic -- am I the only Wolfe fan out there who didn't enjoy Tim Hutton's TV series? I was very disappointed in the first four episodes, and never watched after that. I thought the whole series was filmed a la the Warren Beatty-Madonna "Dick Tracy" film -- with really garish colors and an overly broad brush, so that the series seemed to portray the whole Wolfe ensemble as a spoof or a parody rather than a "serious" series. Even the color of Hutton's shirt on one of the episodes -- a brilliant purple -- totally contradicted Archie's punctilious sense of sartorial appropriateness.

I was so shaken after those first episodes that I went back and reread most of the series -- looking for clues I'd overlooked in the books that Stout had intended to make Wolfe and crew a parody. I didn't find those clues.

My problem with the series is my belief that it takes highly skilled actors to tread that fine line between caricature and character. I thought Maury Chaikin (sp?) portrayed Wolfe as a blustering, bombastic, bellowing burlesque; rather than a character with numerous personal quirks that add to Stout's multi-dimensional creation. And the actor that played Inspector Cramer showed Cramer as the broadest of Irish cop stereotypes. This is not the man who bought Archie a quart of milk in The Doorbell Rang.

So, for fans of the TV series -- trot out your arguments! I really am interested in knowing not just what people think, but why, as I said. You may not convince me, but I will enjoy reading your thoughtful comments. Fire away!

We can expand this thread to include favorite scenes, including best death scenes, best confrontation with Cramer scenes, best interactions with R-R-R-Rowcliffe scenes, best Wolfe heroines, best villains, etc.

I just want to ask everyone to go into detail about why they've listed these things as "best".

And thanks to everyone for posting on this thread! I really look forward to some interesting conversations!

I didn't care for the A&E attempt at the Nero Wolfe series. I think it was because we all get an idea in our head what things and especially people should look like. Cramer was fine but Wolfe and Archie just didn't fit.

I see Archie more on the lines of a Robert Mitchum and Wolfe should be played by an older Orson Welles.

After years of playing "Who would you cast?" my kids and I came up with who we think would be a perfect fit for Archie -- the actor who plays Captain Malcom Reynolds in the s/f Firefly series by Joss Whedon, Nathan Filion. He's good-lucking enough to be a bit of a lady-killer, but neither drop-dead gorgeous nor a pretty boy, and has shown himself to be a master of the thoughtful but cocky and self-assured manner. We're still batting around who could play Wolfe. The late Orson Welles would have been perfect, we think.

Nathan Fillion is a great choice. I had previously thought that William Holden would make a reasonable Archie - a younger Holden, of the "Sabrina" or Bridge on the River Kwai vintage. And Adel Niska (Michael Fairman) for Zeck! Firefly is easily the finest Science Fiction produced for TV, and one of the two or three finest shows ever produced; witty, intelligent and relevant to a modern society struggling to reconcile disparate political, social and economic realities.

I rather enjoyed the A&E series. I agree it is highly stylised and, apart from some of Archie's more outlandish suits, the art direction succeeds in evoking 40's and 50's environment in which the episodes are set. The BBC's "Hercule Poirot" and ITV's "Foyles War" do a better job in this respect, avoiding dome of the excesses evident in A&E.

The shows strength is the respect it pays to the narrative. I agree that the characterisations lack absolute fidelity with Stout's creations, but they are good enough for my tastes. Timothy Hutton's Archie is the only character that I still find remains difficult to accept. His characterisation choices were well thought out, but exaggerated almost to the point of parody, a little like his clothes.

I suspect that Nero Wolfe would defy any actor, even Orson Wells. So much of our perception of Wolfe is nuance seen through Archie's discriminating eye: a finger tapping the arm of a chair is rage, only because Archie tells us. I don't know how his character could be portrayed subtly without Archie's voice regularly intruding. Only those of us intimate with his habits would understand, and then only if the director had like sensibility. I initially found Maury Chaykin's Wolfe annoying to the point of distraction. I persisted (I'd paid good money and invested quite some time in locating a copy of the series), and now cannot see Wolfe's face without seeing Chaykin's. I enjoy Chaykin's Wolfe and accept that it is the same Wolfe I have read, portrayed for a different audience and acted with the stage in mind.

Bill Smitrovic's Inspector Cramer is a joy, but it ain't the Cramer I got to know from the page.

Cogitno: I have some of the same problems with the dramatization of Robert B. Parker's Jesse Stone series on TV. Tom Selleck (a grossly underrated actor, IMHO) is terrific as Jesse Stone, but some of the other characters just don't match up with my visual images -- but I enjoy the show nonetheless.

However, I will not speak about the Spenser for Hire travesty. There is now a pause for a gnashing of teeth and grinding of jaws.

But I'm thrilled that you second our choice of Nathan Filion and also love Firefly!

Did you like the William Conrad TV series? He presents a different Nero, too. I can envision both your stars, and think Orson would have been great. However, I think Mitchum is too straight for Archie. Archie has a twinkle in his eye, sarcasm and wit. I just haven't seen Mitchum play any of those type characters.

saxhorn - Are you confusing Robert Mitchum with William Holden? I know I do all the time. If you were answering cogitno, he was speaking of William Holden who had a magnificent twinkle in is eyes. :) Have you seen "Paris When it Sizzles" with William Holden and Audrey Hepburn? I think he would have been a great Archie, alas, he is no more. So, who now? I've not seen Firefly, and I'm thinking from the above comments, it's another thing to go on my queue at Netflix.

As for the A&E TV Wolfe series, RachelfromSarasota (may I call you Rachel?), have you looked around in the other threads here? I know we've talked about this before. One of things which I found, was that the first three or four episodes were quite bumpy. Everyone seemed to be trying to find the right tone. Maury Chaikin began as blustering and bombastic, but he toned it down into what I thought was a very respectable Wolfe. I think Timothy Hutton improved as well, though I'm still not sold on him as Archie. One of the things I did like about the series, was that it was done almost as a stage play. The actors were a set group, they were melodramatic because it was the type of production which was being aimed at. An artistic view. That is how I was able to enjoy it, I stopped worrying about it's faithfulness and began enjoying its creativity. What stands out in my mind are the vivid colors, rich, warm, boiling with life.

As for my favorite stories, it's been quite awhile since I've read through the whole canon, I started here, then got distracted by my TBR shelf. But the ones which are vivid in my mind are:

Some Buried Caeser, for many of the above listed reasons. Love Lily, have a picture burned in my brain of Wolfe on the rock in the middle of the pasture with the bull and Archie fretting at the fence. Also the chicken dumpling story. A woman's husband left her three times because of her temper, but returned because of her cooking. :)

Too Many Cooks Again with the recipes and cooking theme (I love to cook), Wolfe's wheedling to get the recipe, and the interaction between Wolfe and the staff at the resort. I think it's inspiring.

Black Mountain, for the insight into Wolfe's past.

I can't remember the name of the book, or possibly it was a short story, but the one where an irascible and stubborn old lady gets killed and it makes Wolfe mad. It had a twin story where the victim was a young boy. I loved the lady that got killed. I want to be her when I grow up. Not murdered, just irascible and stubborn.

I love the predictability of all the main characters in Stout's books, and the creativity and humanity of all the secondary characters. I can "see" them as I'm reading.

MrsLee: I believe you are referring Hattie Annis from either Counterfeit for Murder (in Homicide Trinity) or "Assault on A Brownstone" (in Death times Three). The latter is an earlier draft of the same story published after Stout's death.

RachelfromSarasota: I suspect you of being a perfectionist, and myself as less discriminating than the norm ... I didn't mind Spenser for Hire. I agree however, that it honours and the characters a great deal less than A&E did the Stout stories. I do recall watching Spenser in company and feeling a little smug at my familiarity with the characters: I may be confusing smugness with appreciation.

Firefly: Only 14 episodes. A tragedy, Gao yang jong duh goo yang!

Saxhorn: The Willliam Conrad series was OK. It didn't evoke the period nearly as well as the A&E series did. Oddly enough, I thought Conrad was to fat and humourless, and I can't remember Archie at all.

AG - I won't tell RachelfromSarasota about your name. *smirks knowingly*

MrsLee and AG - I already fell into that trap several months ago!!

I bought the A&E Nero Wolfe series and watched all the episodes. At first I believed Archie (Hutton) was too animated. I 'read' him as laid back, not 'jumping around' like Hutton. The clothes were wrong - I think there was an orange suit at one point?!? Wolfe (Chaikin) seemed to be acting his outbursts. He didn't ring true with me.

But as I watched more of the series, I began to enjoy them more. I'm glad I watched the shows, especially after having read the entire series of books from first to last!

Well, Cogitno, I was responding to Moovyz statement about Mitchum. I think Holden would have been better as Archie.

My wife and I discussed this yesterday and tried to think of some other Archie's. One that came to mind was Robert Redford (especially a la Sundance). An older actor who might play Archie similar to Hutton was Bob Cummings.

I agree that the first few episodes of the A&E series were rocky, and they smoothed out as the characters developed their roles. Actually, I think the whole series was sort of tongue-in-cheek and I enjoyed the humor. Therefore, the overdone clothes for Archie were not a big thing for me.

Of course, now reading the books, every character has the intonation and delivery of the series.

As for favorite book, I love "Some Buried Ceasar" for many of the same reasons others have stated. I would like to have seen Lily portrayed in the series.

I'm having so much fun reading all your comments. Thanks so much for posting. I've spent way too many years living in places where no one I know has even heard of the Nero Wolfe books, much less read any of them. It is wonderful to be able to really discuss my favorite books in detail with all of you.

You guys have convinced me that I owe it to myself to give the A&E series starring Tim Hutton and Maury Chaikin another try. I've become a fan of several shows where the first few episodes or even the entire first season was a very bumpy ride -- but quite often everything fell into place later and the cast just gelled.

I was wondering about AdonisGuilfoyle's nom de e-verse, myself.

And yes, everyone -- my real name is Rachel -- so go right ahead and use it!

Mrs. Lee, if you are a fan of good TV and enjoyable s/f, you owe it to yourself to see Firefly. Since there was only one season, it probably won't be hard to get hold of a copy. Watch the pilot episode first, if you can. It wasn't actually the first episode shown, and it probably is not vital -- but this is the recommendation of my adult children, who are all Brownshirts -- avid members of an on-line and real-life Firefly fan group.

TV's been one unexpected problem for me since I joined LT in June. Normally summer is the time when I catch up on any films or TV shows I've missed. I'm a high school teacher, and work almost an hour away from my house, so I end up leaving for work around 6:00 a.m. to make our school's morning formation on time. And since I do lots of extra stuff at school, I usually don't get home until 5:00 p.m. That leaves me time to cuddle the dogs, correct papers, go over lesson plans, read for a little while, and hit the hay. I'm usually in bed and snoring by 9:00. So my summers are my catch-up viewing time.

But since joining LT I've gotten so many more recommendations for books to read that I'm finding I just don't have the time for TV. By no means is this a major problem -- except that I promised myself I'd watch some documentaries I plan on showing to my students next year -- and I can't seem to budget the time away from all these great books!

BTW, I agree with Cogitno (my mind keeps insisting on seeing that name as "cognito") that Mrs. Lee is thinking of Hattie Annis, whose story was paired with that of Pete Drossos (the little boy who is murdered) in Golden Spiders.

Here's a puzzle for you (kind of like the game some folks are playing in the Steven King group):
does anyone remember the name of the only woman who Wolfe willingly let into his sanctum sanctorum (his kitchen)? I do. . .(chuckles evilly)! Wanna play?

Rachel, you better define "let into" his kitchen.

As I recall, the A&E episode with Penelope Ann Miller had her and Archie eating in the kitchen of the brownstone. Does this constitute "Let into?"

And darn, you know I lent all my Nero DVDs to my daughter so that she could introduce her brother-in-law to Nero Wolfe. So, I can't check for more instances and I have more DVDs than books (awful confession!).

Ah, the convenience of the internet. Like a sore tooth, Mrs. Lee's comment about AG's screen name just wouldn't let me rest. I take no credit for this, however, as it was seeing the initials instead of the spelled out name that gave me the hint I needed to solve the puzzle.

So, AG, are you solely a fan, or could it be that you are O.E. MacBride? Sigh. And now I have added yet another book to my devoutly desired to acquire list!

RachelfromSarasota: You are probably thinking of Maryella Timms from Cordially Invited to meet Death, published in Black Orchids. Maryella solves the Corned Beef and Hash problem in the Wolfe kitchen by introducing pig chitlins into the recipe.

The second episode of Firefly was the first produced, but was a considered little dark by the Nework (Fox). The "new" first episode was the replacement. I would watch them in the following order Episodes, 1, 2, 5 then in order. Episode 5 (Out of Gas) has useful historical exposition - and is so good, that if you aren't hooked after it, you can forget the remainder.

I always have trouble pinpointing a single favorite, but Fer de Lance is amazing, especially insofar as almost all the elements we will come to enjoy seem fully mature already in that book. Some Buried Caesar, The Black Orchid, and The Black Mountain are all among my favorites. Which of the stories do you all tend to like? I'm rather partial to the one in which the plot turns on Wolfe's desire for corn-on-the-cob, picked just at the right time and shipped to him in crates.

Cogitno was indeed correct -- I was thinking of Maryella Timms in Cordially Invited to Meet Death. As far as I know, it's the only time in the canon that Wolfe (& Fritz) willingly allowed a woman into the kitchen, and gave her culinary opinions any weight.

As far as this forum goes, I haven't seen any of the shows, for reasons listed in a previous post, so I can't comment on them. So when I pose a question or a comment, I'll be referring to the published works. But it would be interesting if the folks who are fans of the TV show/s would point out differences between the shows and the books.

Now, as far as short stories go: my absolute favorite is Disguise for Murder published in Curtains for Three -- I love the denouement! I think it's one of the most exciting climaxes in any of the books. I also enjoy Poison a la Carte published in Three at Wolfe's Door -- where we meet another Annis, no relation to Hattie, mentioned in a previous post, who was in the novella Counterfeit for Murder.

And I have a distinct fondness for the story in which Wolfe acquires Jet (I was so pleased that Wolfe turned out to be a dog lover!) -- but the name of the story escapes me -- it might be Die Like a Dog, but I'm not sure.

BTW, in Murder is Corny, mentioned by Ostrom, Wolfe goes on a mini-tirade about the shameful way American women cook corn. I grew up in wonderful fresh corn country (the small farms of WNY), and I decided to test Wolfe's assertion about the best way to cook fresh corn. But alas, either my culinary skills were at fault, or my taste buds -- for my family and I could discern no real difference in taste between the three ways I cooked our just picked ears: Wolfe's way, wrapped in its stalk, in a very hot oven; boiled with the addition of a little milk; and steamed. Our only conclusion was that just picked sweet corn is terrific, no matter how it's prepared.

I've avoided this post for a while as I have such a hard time picking one Wolfe over another. They all have the good points, and perhaps a few minor annoyances.

My list seems to coincide with everyone else's, for the most part.

I love "Fer-de-lance", simply because it's the first. I did not get introduced to Wolfe with this one, but I quickly picked it up after first reading the first Wolfe book (I don't remember which one I read first, possibly "Some Buried Caesar").

"Some Buried Caesar", "Black Mountain" and "Death of a Dude" are all supremely enjoyable because we find Wolfe out of his element and having to cope. That is my favorite part of the series... watching such a creature of habit, having to break habits.

I like the entire Zeck trilogy. Again, because (at least in "In the Best of Families") we see Wolfe completely give up on the "safety" of his habitual ritual. Ooh, I like that!

I can not say that I enjoyed "All in the Family" but I have only read it once. Perhaps, being the last, I didn't want to see this wonderful series end this way. But I intend to give it another shot. I have read the entire corpus once, and have read specific titles multiple times. Now that I own the entire collection, I am on my second read-through so I'll give it another try. Another reason I didn't care for it, I feel that Wolfe is such an exceptional judge of character, that I just can't see him letting Orrie Cather "get one past him", so to speak.

Oddly enough, if you named any other in the series, with the possible exception being "Black Orchids", I'm not sure I could tell you, off the top of my head, what it was about. Many of the stories "run together" in my mind. Often I will re-read a particular
title, only to find that I have no idea "who-done-it".
The titles often confuse me.

One final thought... I hated the Robert Goldsmith's attempts at reviving the series. This guy, although he is strong on the details and history, simply doesn't narrate the way Archie (Stout) did. I have done some free-lance writing of my own and I am in the midst of my own novel (have been for some time, more on that later) and I have often been tempted to give this a go. Try a few chapters and ask a true Wolfe fan to see if it meets the expectation. I am, someday, going to produce and direct, a local theater production of "Fer-de-lance". I have always wanted to do this as I think it would make a terrific stage play. I already have it completely worked out on paper, as far as acts, design and scenery, I just need to write the actual dialog portion. Mostly, I want to do this so that I can cast the roles. I know in my head what the characters should look and sound like. I just hope there are enough local "large" male actors to select the right man. LOL!

On a side note (and I think I'm going to start a separate thread on this), does anyone else but me have a hard time translating the way you envision the layout of the brownstone versus the way some of the diagrams and descriptions are shown to us, from web-sites, fans and even Stout's explanations in interviews, etc.?

That may be confusing... here's what I mean... I see the office very specifically in my mind. The dining room, the front room, the plant rooms, the bedrooms and on and on. I could actually draw a floor-plan, complete with books, globe, bed, etc. But when I see diagrams drawn from Stout's descriptions in the fan sites or if Archie starts describing the position of his desk in a later novel, it doesn't work out at all with the picture in my mind. I'm sure I simply did not pay enough attention to Archie's descriptions in my first readings to get the placements right and now my picture, that I developed in my mind as a natural effect of reading, just doesn't match.

I find it frustrating because I can't go back and change the pictures in my mind. It's not like an an artist that can simply paint over the canvas. These things are permanently imprinted in my mind.

Does anyone else have this problem? Or am I just a nutcase?

Moovyz - If you are a nut case, then there are two of us. I just gave up and see it the way I want to, regardless of what Archie says! ;)

Hattie Annis is the one! Love her.

Rachel, That's why I typed the AG, so you would have a clue to work on.

I am also one of the nuts who doesn't find the layouts and diagrams meet what I see. I have always put this down to the fact that I began reading the books as a teenager with, perhaps, not the best sense of proportion.

I figure, I see them my way and Archie see them his.

Interesting point about the brownstone's layout and the pictures in our minds! I feel the same way, but I never seriously tried to imagine the exact configuration as I read. I wonder if someone has collected all the descriptions in the books and examined them for consistency. I suppose that's how the various drawings referred to were made. Has anyone ever compared THEM for consistency?

About the Goldsmith books. While I can definitely tell the difference, I don't hate them. Lacking anymore authentic Wolfe stories, I found them enjoyable. Just my opinion, and I am definitely a nutcase!

My grandparents livid in and owned several houses similar to brownstones but more humble. My picture of Wolf’s home does not at all coincide with the drawings I have seen. Maybe I should do one of my own.

Mrs.Lee, we've just 'met' -- but you seem to know me very well -- I can be compulsive about tracking down new knowledge.

About the problems visualizing the brownstone -- whew! I thought it was just me -- that I was spatially challenged or something. Glad to know others are experiencing the same difficulty.

Moovyz -- I hated the Robert Goldsmith books for only one reason -- his writing is so very, very different from Stout's. I truly feel that if you are going to continue a long-established series, then you owe a moral debt to the original author to continue to write in his voice and not your own. Frankly, as a literary analyst, Goldsmith (is that the right name?) did not even try to do that -- as a matter of fact, it didn't seem to me that he had even read the books -- he exhibited what seemed to be a very superficial knowledge of the characters and Stout's style.

I have the same problem with the continuation of Dick Francis' works. I don't care a hill of beans if his son is the one assuming the mantle -- Francis had a voice distinctly his own, in every one of his books, and the least devoted readers can expect is someone who TRIES to reproduce that voice.

Sorry, folks, you punched one of my buttons! Anyway, Moovyz, I have few talents -- but one of them is literary analysis. When I was ten I figured out, on my own, that Victoria Plaidy and Jean Holt were the same author. When I was eleven I did the same thing with Barbara Michaels and Elizabeth Peters. This was way before the internet, and it took me a year or so to confirm my conclusions. So. . .when you write that Wolfe opus, think about letting me take a gander at it. I would be more than happy to see if you're channeling Stout!

Uh oh! Goldsmith, Goldsborough . . . My only literary talent is I like to read. I defer to RachelfromSarasota on all matters literary!! ;) Now, if anyone wants to talk about chemical engineering, I might have a chance!!

I think I need to apologize for coming on so strongly! I know I'm opinionated, but I really don't mean to offend anyone or denigrate anyone's taste. One of my few gifts is that when I immerse myself in a particular author's work, I somehow absorb that writer's style, and anything I write for the next few days seems like I'm channeling that author. (This was a real problem in junior high when I read most of Lovecraft for one whole semester. My essays and book reports read like they were written by an elderly antiquarian with a very warped world view!) Since this comes so naturally to me, it is irritating to me, as a fan, when I pick up the continuation of a series and find that it seems nothing like the original works. Sorry -- it's just one of my pet peeves as an avid reader.

But I myself absolutely love books that other people find irritatingly banal -- so I certainly don't ever intend to deprecate anyone else's taste in reading or viewing material! I just find it more interesting on a thread if I can take a peek into a reader's head and find out why he/she likes or dislikes a particular author or book. That helps me decide how to deal with other LTers' book recommendations.

I was just kidding, Rachel. Please don't take offense - I didn't mean it that way. No need to apologize!

Yes, please don't apologize for that. This site is a pleasure to visit, as this is one of the few remaining discussion boards on the net that certain people haven't run over.

I came here just now to actually cool down. In addition to books, I love movies, golf and poker. I had got into a rather personal heated exchange on another board. And my wife and I were just remarking on how rude people have become.

Personally, I think the internet is the culprit in much of this. It allows people to post anonomously and belittle and degrade others without fear of punishment.

I posted an anectdotal story about a hand I had played in a play money poker tournament on the internet. A few nice people got the laugh desired. But more than 70% of the respondants simply "flamed" me for writing a story about "play" money. You'd think I had said something bad about the Pope to a Catholic. They were completely rude and obnoxious and even went to far as to create a satyrical "MySpace" page about the poker teacher who teaches in Candyland with a twist on my screename at the top.

And of course I, too, can fire off when my buttons are pushed so I gave a bit of it back. But all in all I thought it totally unjustified and it really began to bother me how rude people have become.

Do any of you use AOL? If you do, you know the comment area in the bottom of each news story. I am constantly appalled by the remarks, especially the racist ones whenever there's a story about Obama.

I really wonder if people became this way, for the reasons stated earlier, or were they always really like this, just hidden?

Anyway, please don't be sorry for simply being honest and straightforward. As long as it's not an attack against another, I'm sure none of us will mind.

I have seen the flowering of discourtesy (how's that for a twisted metaphor?) proliferating on the internet over the past few years. I think there are a few reasons for this: first, the anonymity; second, the speed and ease of e-communications; and third, the lack of personal expense (both in terms of time, postage, and paper). When writing a letter to the editor, years ago, the very process was necessarily lengthier than than dashing off an email -- one had to procure paper and pen or typewriter, write a legible epistle, acquire an envelope and stamp, and then go out and mail the durned thing. A lot of steps and time to reconsider during each one.

I have been depressed by both the unnecessary rudeness of many posts (not too many on LT, thank goodness); and the rising level of illiteracy displayed therein. Sigh.

But I meant what I said. . .and I am glad no one took offense, but if we were having an in-the-flesh conversation I would also have back-pedaled to make sure my rather strongly expressed opinion did not hurt anyone's feelings.

I'm glad I didn't tread on anyone's toes!

I agree with your reasons of speed and expense. But even if one went far enough to actually get the letter in to the big blue box with the funny door, the envelope would have contained something that at least has respect in it even if it did catch fire on the way.

I think it all ties in together, all the way back to the losing of family values aused by the infernal boob tube, lack of all sitting around the dinner table and so on. But over time, people have stopped caring about others, almost completely, and have switched that to an internal self promotion.

It's evident everywhere, from tatoos to piercings (and no, I'm not a prude... my daughters have several and I support them) to Girls Gone Wild and beyond. With this internalizing everything, there has to be a vent of some sort. Once, it was love and caring and charity... now it's anger, frustration and isolation.

The world in general doesn't help matters. Torrorists, war, disease, natuaral disasters... everyone had become dulled by the amount of information we are forced to take in. What once moved us, now is just a passing glance. Heck, I remember when teachers used to tell us how we could all become President of the United States if we worked hard enough. Today, that position seems like a step below a mafia boss. There are very few heroes any more.

I apologize for the negative tone of this. Lately, I have really begun to notice these things, even in people that were close to me. And although I generally view myself as an optimist, it's getting harder and harder to stay "up".

Well, enough of that bummer ride...lol. It's not all doom and gloom. I just wish there were more signs that we were headed back into a more positive direction.

I'll keep reading my Nero Wolfe's and be inspired by those views of a different time and place. It's great that we always have that escape.

We've gotten really off-topic here, but I wanted to let Moovyz know that there are an awful lot of people of every age out there who still care passionately about helping others. During the 6 weeks I've had off from teaching high school, I have gotten more involved with CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) and the Red Cross -- and both organizations are filled with folks who volunteer huge chunks of their time solely to help those in need. It's been a rewarding experience for me personally and fills me with hope and admiration for all those volunteers who so selflessly give of themselves!

Here's a conundrum: what charities did Wolfe support?

I seem to remember in "Black Mountain" that he sent money to the Serbian (or Croation, or Yugoslavian) rebels freedom fighters.

I'm sorry about that rambling, negative rant. It seems the world is heading in the wrong direction. Hopefully, these kids are really strong because they have their work cut out for them.

Hey, if you can't vent a little to your reading pals, who can you vent to?

I've just been rereading "Over My Dead Body" which I find highly entertaining. I first came upon the story through the A&E series. So, of course, I see the characters and hear their voices.

What I particularly like about the story is how flustered Wolfe gets with Carla Lovchen, and the delightful character of Madamme Zorka (sp.?). The scene in Wolfe's office where she reveals her true name and hometown is priceless.

I watched the last half of the A&E version of The Golden Spiders today. I watched the first half weeks ago and could never get around to finishing it. I thought it was better than the series episodes - I think this was the original, sort of a pilot for the series.

It's hard to pick a favorite book - I'm so damn old my memory sort of squishes them all together, without being able to clearly distinguish the individual stories from the resulting gallimaufry (take that, Wolfe!). And I just went through the entire series within the past two years!!

Here's another question that interests me more: What are your favorite 'wisecracks' by Archie? It would be amusing to research this, but you with better memories than I can probably list dozens before I can find the time to extract a few.

Hey, Rachel - sorry for not being able to put you out of your misery sooner! If the others haven't already helped you to work it out, 'Adonis Guilfoyle' is the pseudonym that Archie suggests for himself in If Death Ever Slept (he needed a name that would match his own initials, because of his monogrammed luggage, hence MrsLee's clue) - it tickled me, and I thought it would be an original moniker!

Thanks -- but MrsLee's clue did send me into research mode and I finally figured it out! Cool nom de plume!

etrainer - Are we the same age? We have the same memory! I think I love when Archie makes wisecracks about Wolfe's weight, etc. They are so affectionately insulting! I also like it when he pins down a character's personality with a few well chosen words.

Mrs Lee, NO, I'm much older than you!! I still haven't tried the info you sent me. I'm traveling next week, so maybe late one evening, with no family asking for my help with this and that, I can give it a try.

#1 RachaelfromSarasota

My Dad and your Dad sound like they had similar tastes. My Dad introduced me to Nero Wolfe when I was a teenager and we used to talk about them as I read them. The last about 15 years of his life I was buying W.E.B. Grifffin novels as gifts for him on every occasion!

He died about a year ago and I'm now re-reading all the nero wolfe vovels in order of publication--sort of a tribute of what we shared in love of books (of many genre). In fact just finished Too Many Cooks!

My favorite Nero Wolfe is which ever one I'm currently reading. I started with the William Conrad series in which Lee Horsely (Of Matt Houston fame) played Archie, then my sons bought me a collection of Nero Wolfe radio shows on cd. Most of them had Sidney Greenfield as Nero Wolfe and a different person played Archie in each one. Then I finished with the A&E series. So I had no set idea of what they looked like. But I do Like the A&E series better then William Conrad's.

SPOILER ALERT!

I just finished reading In the Best Families and thought it was a great story. I love the fact that Wolfe gets out of his house for five months, loses 117 pounds (taking him down to a svelt 168), and dons a disguise that even Archie doesn't detect, all to defeat an underworld crime boss. This book really has 2 plots; the above plus a regular murder mystery. The solution to the murder mystery is actually not too difficult given the clues surrounding the death, but the plot to get rid of the crime boss is ingenious. The story is set in 1950 and references a few of the earlier novels.

saxhorn

I love that one, too. Have you read The Black Mountain? In that one he is climbing all over the mountains in Montenegro--where he originally came from. Hubby likes the ones where Wolfe is out and about rather than just sittinig and thinking, so this is one of his favorites. I just like them all.

I'm rereading them in order and the next one up will be Where There's a Will--#8. I've been taking a break because I've been doing group read on LT this fall. But I'm ready to go back to some "fun" reading again.

Haven't read that one yet. I'm trying to find the League of Frightened Men. I've been trying to read them in order, obviously didn't work. May be I'll have to order from Amazon.

#47 Sometimes Ebay has some good deals on multiple books, too. Hope you find them, I too have enjoyed them all. Have you read the thread in this group about In the Best Families? We read the trilogy together and put our thoughts there, it's never too late to revive a discussion thread and add to it. :)

Rachel wrote:

"Speaking of theater, and going a little off-topic -- am I the only Wolfe fan out there who didn't enjoy Tim Hutton's TV series? I was very disappointed in the first four episodes, and never watched after that. I thought the whole series was filmed a la the Warren Beatty-Madonna "Dick Tracy" film -- with really garish colors and an overly broad brush, so that the series seemed to portray the whole Wolfe ensemble as a spoof or a parody rather than a "serious" series. Even the color of Hutton's shirt on one of the episodes -- a brilliant purple -- totally contradicted Archie's punctilious sense of sartorial appropriateness."

I hope no one will mind me harking back to this July 2008 post, but I can't help it. "You stick to it, Archie, like a leech on an udder." (FDL, Chap. 19) And like Archie I've stuck to it. When I first read this I knew I had read about Archie wearing a purple shirt in one of Stout's books, but I couldn't remember which book. Finally, today I found it.

I admit I was chagrined when I read this post, because it was Timothy Hutton and Maury Chaykin in the A&E Nero Wolfe series that introduced me to Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin and Stout's wonderful books. I started reading the books two days after "The Doorbell Rang" episode, and I've been reading them ever since. Once I read the books I appreciated the series even more because the series was so faithful to Stout's books.

The fact that Timothy Hutton, portraying Archie Goodwin, wore a purple shirt in one of the episodes does not contradict "Archie's punctilious sense of sartorial appropriateness." Archie does wears purple, though it irritates Wolfe, and also because it *does* irritate Wolfe.

The Silent Speaker, Chap. 24:
"He Wolfe does not like purple. Once Lily Rowan gave me a dozen Sulka shirts, with stripes of assorted colors and shades. I happened to put on the purple one the day we started on the Chesterton-Best case, the guy that burgled his own house and shot a week-end guest in the belly. Wolfe took one look at the shirt and clammed up on me. Just for spite I wore the shirt a week..."

Michael Jaffe (producer), Timothy Hutton (executive producer, actor, director) and Sharon Doyle (head writer) along with the rest of the cast and crew of "Nero Wolfe" took great pains to capture Stout's Nero Wolfe in the series, and I think they did a terrific job. Little touches that might be omitted or over-looked, like the Holbein prints in the office, the gold bottle opener, and the picture of Mount Vernon on Archie's bedroom wall were included on the "Nero Wolfe Mysteries" sets, and most of the dialog for the series comes directly from the books. I say "most satisfactory" to everyone involved with the "Nero Wolfe Mysteries."

Compared to the 1981 Nero Wolfe series, where William Conrad (Cannon) played Wolfe and Lee Horsley (Matt Houston) played Archie, in modren day New York, the A&E one was much better in that it at least made an attempt to follow the books.
So for me at least the A&E series was more fun to watch.

Re #49's post about the Sulka shirts: "Chacun a son gout" as the farmer said when he kissed the cow. I'm glad that the A & E series turned you on to the Wolfe books, Rectangle, even though I still insist (after a little on-line digging) that Sulka's shirts were never as garish as Hutton's ensembles. But each to his own.

My favorite Nero Wolfe book has got to be THE DOORBELL RANG. SPOILER ALERT: It is an absolutely priceless moment when Wolfe orders Archie NOT to open the door for J. Edgar Hoover. "Let him get a sore finger" is Wolfe's comment - Wolfe at his Wolfiest!

I just turned my eldest daughter on to the Wolfe books. She'd already read and enjoyed another of my favorites, TOO MANY COOKS, but this time I made her read the Zeck trilogy, in order, followed up by THE DOORBELL RANG. Next on the menu is another favorite, THE BLACK MOUNTAIN.

The only Wolfe work I don't enjoy very much is the story about the cartoon strip. But even that is worth reading, for Wolfe's command of language if nothing else.

And I love the evolution of Lily Rowan in the books.