Adding Title comes up with Spanish language edition only
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2laytonwoman3rd
I tried adding The Cat Who Saved Books to my wishlist after seeing it recommended on an LTer's thread. The touchstone used on that thread goes to an English translation of the original Japanese book. https://www.librarything.com/work/26490812
However, when I try to add it from that page, I get the Spanish language edition. I solved it by finding the correct ISBN elsewhere and using that to add the book to my wishlist.
(Sorry...I posted this originally while signed into my husband's account. Which is why the first message above is deleted. He cares nothing for this issue!)
However, when I try to add it from that page, I get the Spanish language edition. I solved it by finding the correct ISBN elsewhere and using that to add the book to my wishlist.
(Sorry...I posted this originally while signed into my husband's account. Which is why the first message above is deleted. He cares nothing for this issue!)
3Taliesien
>2 laytonwoman3rd: Yes, this is a known issue with Quick Add. I don't recommend people use it at this point, just use good old Add books. There are a couple of topics floating around regarding it but the end result was that the "fix" was to show you what book you were going to get before you added it in case it wasn't the book (wrong lang/wrong book) you actually wanted.
I've asked what LT is using to determine the search criteria for that new feature but didn't get a response. In this case, neither the ISBN nor Title are the most used (based on editions & copies) in the work so it can't be that. The source is just returning what LT is searching for and that ISBN is the spanish lang edition but why is LT sending that specific query? If you're on a work page where the default work title is "The Cat Who Saved Books" that's the only identifier LT should be sending to any source (other than perhaps the primary author,) Amazon/Library since even being on a specific user's edition (title/isbn) of that work doesn't result in that edition being used to search for the Add. It's just bizarre.
I've asked what LT is using to determine the search criteria for that new feature but didn't get a response. In this case, neither the ISBN nor Title are the most used (based on editions & copies) in the work so it can't be that. The source is just returning what LT is searching for and that ISBN is the spanish lang edition but why is LT sending that specific query? If you're on a work page where the default work title is "The Cat Who Saved Books" that's the only identifier LT should be sending to any source (other than perhaps the primary author,) Amazon/Library since even being on a specific user's edition (title/isbn) of that work doesn't result in that edition being used to search for the Add. It's just bizarre.
4laytonwoman3rd
>3 Taliesien: Thank you. I thought maybe I was doing something peculiar with the way I was adding. I think the first time I tried using the quick link it did not show me the book first, but just plunked it into my wishlist collection. I deleted it, tried it again, and it did show me the Spanish language title. Oh, well, lesson learned. And now I need to go check a few other titles I've added to my wishlist lately, to make sure they are the correct editions.
5AnnieMod
>4 laytonwoman3rd: It works more often than >3 Taliesien: will make you believe for English books - not as much for non English ones IMO.
It has issues with new(ish) translations because the majority ISBN (however it is actually determined) is not the English one but for wishlist items where you do not care about the edition, it can work just fine in a lot of cases.
There seems also to be some caching in cases like here - the English one should be winning but my suspicion is that once upon the time the Spanish did and this is stuck. Leave this open - LT may be able to find something around this and find a solution.
The touchstone goes to the work itself and shows the English title in the list of touchstones because of the canonical title of the English CK - any time you reference this work from the .com site, the Canonical title shows up.... Now, the way the works look, even without the canonical, it will be the English one but it is the canonical that forces it here.
It has issues with new(ish) translations because the majority ISBN (however it is actually determined) is not the English one but for wishlist items where you do not care about the edition, it can work just fine in a lot of cases.
There seems also to be some caching in cases like here - the English one should be winning but my suspicion is that once upon the time the Spanish did and this is stuck. Leave this open - LT may be able to find something around this and find a solution.
The touchstone goes to the work itself and shows the English title in the list of touchstones because of the canonical title of the English CK - any time you reference this work from the .com site, the Canonical title shows up.... Now, the way the works look, even without the canonical, it will be the English one but it is the canonical that forces it here.
6laytonwoman3rd
>5 AnnieMod: This is the first problem I've noticed using the quick link, and I only do that to add something to my wishlist, so it isn't frequent. (I'm more likely just to buy the book, y'know?) And, of course, most of the books I'm adding are originally in English. Is the canonical title automatically generated, or does someone have to enter it in the CK field?
7MarthaJeanne
>6 laytonwoman3rd: The canonical title is always entered by a member.
8AnnieMod
>6 laytonwoman3rd: Someone added it manually. Nothing in CK is automatically populated - every single piece of information in it is manually added my someone.
It is needed when the winning title has a lot of crap in it (the series name twice for example...) or, especially for translations, when they winning title is not the English one. Each language site has its own canonical title so the Spanish LT can have the Spanish version if there is a Spanish edition, the Russian one - the Russian and so on if the site does not calculate it for them in a way that makes sense.
Two examples of translations:
Professor Andersen's Night - the English one wins by a large margin so we do not need CT
While We Were Dreaming - the English records are losing badly so if we do not have CT, another language's version wins (the original in this case).
As a rule, we let the site calculate the title - and intervene with a CT only when really needed.
It is needed when the winning title has a lot of crap in it (the series name twice for example...) or, especially for translations, when they winning title is not the English one. Each language site has its own canonical title so the Spanish LT can have the Spanish version if there is a Spanish edition, the Russian one - the Russian and so on if the site does not calculate it for them in a way that makes sense.
Two examples of translations:
Professor Andersen's Night - the English one wins by a large margin so we do not need CT
While We Were Dreaming - the English records are losing badly so if we do not have CT, another language's version wins (the original in this case).
As a rule, we let the site calculate the title - and intervene with a CT only when really needed.
9calm
I noticed that somebody has used a Spanish canonical title for Starship Troopers https://www.librarything.com/work/7802/commonknowledge/62496908 and Stranger in a Strange Land https://www.librarything.com/work/6904/commonknowledge/46260769
I don't know if any other works or authors are affected.
I don't know if any other works or authors are affected.
10AnnieMod
>9 calm: It happens occasionally when someone does not understand how the site works OR (much more likely in cases like this) when someone combines a Spanish title and does not do the follow-up CK "check and clean if something came in wrongly" (as the CK merges, all the CK of the minority work will be merged into the result)...
When I find these, I just tidy them up.
When I find these, I just tidy them up.
11r.orrison
>9 calm: Fixed. They didn't need Canonical Title on the English site.
Usually the combination log says "(by combination)" if that was the case - it did not on these books.
Usually the combination log says "(by combination)" if that was the case - it did not on these books.
12laytonwoman3rd
>7 MarthaJeanne: I thought that was the case. Thanks.
13Taliesien
>5 AnnieMod: ">LOL! "it can work just fine in a lot of cases" isn't exactly the definition of a reliable feature, which is my point.
If work page -> Quick Add can't generate the same result as Add Books -> work name every time, there is a logic error. Using the same source of course.
Media type may be a factor but I haven't taken the time to extract the # of paperback/hardcover copies in any of the works that generate the unwanted edition being served back. I've already ruled out the most used ISBN, edition title and # of copies for every one I've looked at, thinking that LT "majority rules" might being used to apply some sort of invisible default edition of a work.
If work page -> Quick Add can't generate the same result as Add Books -> work name every time, there is a logic error. Using the same source of course.
Media type may be a factor but I haven't taken the time to extract the # of paperback/hardcover copies in any of the works that generate the unwanted edition being served back. I've already ruled out the most used ISBN, edition title and # of copies for every one I've looked at, thinking that LT "majority rules" might being used to apply some sort of invisible default edition of a work.
14r.orrison
>9 calm: I don't know if any other works or authors are affected.
Lots. The user appears to be adding the Spanish title as the Canonical Title on the English site for all their works.
Lots. The user appears to be adding the Spanish title as the Canonical Title on the English site for all their works.
15calm
>11 r.orrison: Thanks. I wouldn't know how to fix that and appreciate all the helpers who do.
>14 r.orrison: I am sorry to hear that. I wouldn't even know how to find the person who added the Canonical Title. As far as I understand that is not the use of that feature and hope that someone can explain things to that user.
>14 r.orrison: I am sorry to hear that. I wouldn't even know how to find the person who added the Canonical Title. As far as I understand that is not the use of that feature and hope that someone can explain things to that user.
16gilroy
>2 laytonwoman3rd: I noticed if you click on advanced, then change the option from paperback to hardback, you get the English version of the book.
Sometimes, you have to look at the advanced features.
I also noticed that all the ISBN add options are Amazon, so the data coming across may not be correct, though for wishlist, I don't know how much that matters beyond author and title.
Sometimes, you have to look at the advanced features.
I also noticed that all the ISBN add options are Amazon, so the data coming across may not be correct, though for wishlist, I don't know how much that matters beyond author and title.
17r.orrison
>15 calm: I wouldn't even know how to find the person who added the Canonical Title.
From the Common Knowledge page for the work:
https://www.librarything.com/work/6904/commonknowledge/46260769
Click the History link (on the far right of the "Common Knowledge" group header line)
Click "All" at the top right (which shows the entries that have been deleted)
You'll see a line saying "canonical title" "Forastero en Tierra Extra&ntil…" "eng" which shows that the Spanish title was added on the English site. At the end of that line is the name of the user that made that entry.
Point at the user name with your mouse, and a little >> button appears to the right.
Click that >> button to see all the entries made by that user.
You can scan through there for entries where they've put "Original Language" "English" and a non-English Canonical Title. Those probably need to be fixed.
From the Common Knowledge page for the work:
https://www.librarything.com/work/6904/commonknowledge/46260769
Click the History link (on the far right of the "Common Knowledge" group header line)
Click "All" at the top right (which shows the entries that have been deleted)
You'll see a line saying "canonical title" "Forastero en Tierra Extra&ntil…" "eng" which shows that the Spanish title was added on the English site. At the end of that line is the name of the user that made that entry.
Point at the user name with your mouse, and a little >> button appears to the right.
Click that >> button to see all the entries made by that user.
You can scan through there for entries where they've put "Original Language" "English" and a non-English Canonical Title. Those probably need to be fixed.
19gilroy
>18 MarthaJeanne: Yeah, I've already done that, but the only sources that come up in the box are Amazon.
20kristilabrie
Closing.
22timspalding
Languages are now being taken into account, so this example is fixed. It will fall down sometimes—our data isn't perfect—but this should solve 90% of the problem.
