Lyra's Christmas Carol

For the last few months, well, year actually, I've been designing Rich Tong's Lyra's Books Christmas Carol. It was really tough as Rich wanted them made so he could get the books into the hands of readers by Christmas. He has just put out, via social media the two editions, I am so pleased with the way they came out!
Here's his copy and, hopefully, photos of the Lettered:
A CHRISTMAS CAROL - LETTERED EDITION
Trimmed page size - 265 x 175mm
A modern design binding, fully bound in white Harmatan 'Katsina' goatskin with a foil blocked design by Gary Gianni wrapping around the full cover. The top edge of the text block is gilded and the bottom edge is deckled. The book has been printed on 160gsm Zerkall Mould Made paper, some of the last to come from the Zerkall mill before it closed. Endpapers are hand marbled by Freya Scott of Paperwilds.
Internally, there are six tipped in colour plates with loose tissue guards, 12 black and white letterpress prints and five two colour stave headings by our artist Gary Gianni.
The book is signed by the artist, Gary Gianni and our afterword contributor, Simon Callow.
The book comes with a cloth covered portfolio containing five signed prints of the colour artwork from within the book. The prints were overseen and approved by the artist at the Chicago studio where the paintings were originally scanned. These are the closest representations of the actual paintings as it is possible to get. Each print is signed and numbered.
Both the portfolio and book come in a bradel bound solander box, with leather spine and cloth front and back boards. Set under a frame on the front board is a letterpress print of a Gianni artwork. The trays inside are lined with white suedel.
Prices etc coming at the end of the week along with a website update, including a new project page and all details on the shop pages. I will need to start contacting current rights holders (numbered and lettered) from Monday next week, 28th of November, and they will have until Thurs the 1st of December to make their purchase. We will then hold lotteries for any available lettered and both ‘rights’ and ‘non-rights’ copies of the numbered edition on the 3rd of December. We will be sending out books as soon as payment has been made. It's tight but I think we can do it!

https://i.postimg.cc/VN2gKJWX/316407216-1006505926956881-7914791634075962544-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/65KjsGJ0/316408472-1006506266956847-81872583446045437-n.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/HstSTsTC/316408909-1006506783623462-83494105577972526-n.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/85rKGRzy/316409973-1006506203623520-5139015467017382571-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/SKPTHTk2/316410263-1006505860290221-3234776459547117258-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/nhR0QRsR/316420214-1006505633623577-6612792300463887591-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/QCQf9j51/316535144-1006506123623528-2148357750358965908-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/DzS5QrL2/316548826-1006506003623540-6416279765474658061-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/9QFL05fw/316674622-1006506436956830-3892822061158819303-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/tRWSmNfJ/316677550-1006506236956850-7047500484920794685-n.j...
https://i.postimg.cc/4yk8xYKX/316818105-1006506060290201-3818300979404095374-n.j...

OK, how do I post pictures?! Bugger, I forgot what I have to copy and paste! Help.

Looks beautiful, I assume it's been fully subscribed for a good while now.

>3 Shadekeep: Thanks! What do I have to do to do that? btw, is there a permanent topic that tells you? I keep on forgetting ...

Just put the image URL inside an image tag to get a picture. Here's an example:

<img src="https://i.postimg.cc/VN2gKJWX/316407216-1006505926956881-7914791634075962544-n.jpg"/>

If you also want to control the size of the image, you can include height and width attributes. Be sure to keep them in the same ratio as the original image, unless you intentionally want to add distortion.

<img src="https://i.postimg.cc/VN2gKJWX/316407216-1006505926956881-7914791634075962544-n.jpg" height="300px" width="500px"/>

>4 Shadekeep: They are offered to the rights holders for a few days, if there are books left it will go to lottery. I think Rich wants an easier life than the stress of direct sales.

>6 Shadekeep: wow, thanks! I think I'll have to put this in a note somewhere, m

>7 marceloanciano: Thanks! I'd be surprised if many make it to lottery, but if they do then I may try my hand at landing one.

>8 marceloanciano: PS - I should mention that you can also set just one of the size attributes, and most browsers will automatically scale the other axis accordingly. So you could set an image at a height of 400 pixels (400px) and the width should automatically scale to the corresponding value of the original ratio. You can also use percentages instead of pixel values (width="50%"), and that corresponds to a percentage of the total area that contains the image.

The lettered looks amazing, and it's great to see the Bradel bound solander get another appearance after The Case of Death and Honey (if I am remember correctly).

Having some trouble with the book's cover - what is below the bow? It looks like the image is of a window, with a bow on top, but what are the 6 shapes in a 3x2 grid? And is there a particular passage it is inspired by?

>11 What_What: seems like it may be from one of the last few paragraphs of stave 1. Talks about Marley floating through the window, along with other spirits floating in the air covered in chains

>11 What_What: The bits under the bow are panes of glass in the raised window, with snow settled along the bottom edge of each. It's a nice use of the cover's negative space.

Thank you both, I can see it now!

>1 marceloanciano: Not that this matters too much, but I've noticed that there is no text at all on the lettered state book boards/spine - only on the enclosure. Design decision?

>16 punkzip: It was. Rich went backwards and forwards and tried titles, I did feel that the simplicity and meaning of Gary's foil design, of the chains of the past holding us down, lost the power by a title. Also, the fact that the solander box was an integrated part of the whole and that had the title, so the book became part of the whole, not just a box that held a book. I love the way the box became the title. Freeing the book to be something 'other', it was the design.

>17 marceloanciano: I agree with the design choice, it's a very strong and appealing result without text. Kudos.

Pricing is up.
Numbered £500
Lettered £1,950

https://www.lyrasbooks.com/shop/

Prices are lower than Dorian which is nice (I was expecting about the same). A shorter book than Dorian, but more art.

>20 punkzip: Dorian was 550 and this is 500 - I appreciate that the price is down, but of course more than anything else I appreciate the craft and skill involved in this beautiful production!

Does anyone else prefer the traditional green binding design of numbered edition over the lettered edition, as impressive as it is?

>22 ultrarightist: I agree the green leather design is more appealing to me, although my mind might think differently if I had an extra $2,000 lying around... I think generally I have just never been a huge fan of white leather.

>20 punkzip: >21 astropi: Dorian included shipping so the prices are in fact more or less the same.

>22 ultrarightist: >23 Kyle81: I'm inclined to agree. The deep green leather and red slipcase are wonderfully evocative of Christmas, and I tend to prefer my books to be elegant and somewhat understated. That said, I do admit to the occasional pang of envy whenever Lyra's unveil a Lettered edition and in this case it is a thing of beauty. But then I remind myself that I would likely be too afraid to touch it - never mind open it - were I to own it. Basically a case of 'too rich for my blood'. The numbered is to my mind the ideal compromise - a book as a work of art that I would still plan to read. Having said that, I still might be tempted to put my name in the hat should any Lettered become available, haha.

>22 ultrarightist: At the risk of sounding like Scrooge himself, I totally agree. Aesthetically I greatly prefer the numbered over the letter. I have a visceral dislike of white leather though I appreciate what they are shooting for here design-wise. aside from the aesthetics, I feel like the lettered is just needlessly over-the-top. I've never liked solander boxes and I have no need of mini-prints of the artwork (they're in the book after all and I'm not framing and hanging these). Obviously it does appeal to some and thats fine. For me, however, less is more in this particular instance. Always fun to see new editions/variations though, even if they're not all my cup 'o tea...

>25 wooter: I love Gary Gianni's cover design on the lettered, and always appreciate Rich's foil work, though that on it's own is less an "upgrade" than an alternate design.

I'm agnostic about portfolios and prints as I never end up framing them - they simply sit in the box with the book that presumably contains the exact same artwork. However, I do like this particular solander design and drastically prefer the protection of boxes over slipcases.

At the end of the day, the Zerkall paper upgrade on the lettered is probably the biggest draw for me, but I'm not sure that would justify it were I lucky enough to win the lottery.

>26 NathanOv: drastically prefer the protection of boxes over slipcases. It's hard to think of many situations where books need such a degree of protection. What are you doing, throwing them across the room?

Trouble is, one couldn't do much with the prints even if one wanted to. Any damaged or missing elements, reducing the condition from 'as new', might drastically affect the price, and we're potentially talking thousands here. And that includes the solander box. It's such an intrinsic part of the overall design that it itself needs protection.

>27 Levin40: Well, for one thing I'm frequently removing them to read, and I've come across far to many poorly-sized, rough, or dust/dirt-attracting slipcases that scuff and wear if not actively scratching / damaging. So perhaps it’s more a general cautiousness around slipcases.

However, solanders also remove the risk of spine fading, entirely keep out dust, and offer some added level of environmental protection.

I like the look of the Lettered edition very much, and am a fan of solanders, but the Numbered is what is in my range. And that only just. Both are handsome volumes. (And I'm also in the crowd that doesn't have much use for any accompanying portfolio. All my books with them have retained them in their case.)

This is not meant to be an early appearance by Mr. Scrooge, but it is important to recognize that 'A Christmas Carol' is a charter member of private press royalty, i.e., a work of literature or poetry that has been issued in private press format numerous times, almost always with pleasing results. Additionally, the various editions differ markedly in style, offering the book collector a wide range of choice.

For my part, I own the Arion Press edition, the Hand and Eye Letterpress edition and a marvelously inventive edition from Mark McMurray's Caliban Press and the latter two check all of the boxes for me. Phil Abel's edition, especially the deluxe edition with hand-colored illustrations, is a delight. Angela Barrett's drawings are delicate and evocative and the book is a perfect reading size. Mark McMurray's edition entitled 'A Ghost Story of Christmas. Being a Christmas Carol' is a marvelous example of the book arts in the same vein as Claire van Vliet's work with her Janus Press, replete with various media including wood engraving, relief engraving, pochoir, mounted collages, and pop-ups.

My point? As attractive as the Numbered and Lettered editions from Lyra's Books are, the collector has a wide range of varying styles to choose from in acquiring a copy of 'A Christmas Carol'. Take advantage of this, do a bit of homework, and determine which edition checks all of YOUR boxes.

>30 dlphcoracl: I only discovered it last year, but Caliban Press's "A Ghost Story of Christmas" has become my favorite edition of A Christmas Carol. Mark McMurray's interpretation of the text through various artforms makes for a remarkable reading experience.

>31 NathanOv:

I also recommend the Caliban Press edition of 'The Tempest'. Unfortunately, Mark McMurray's other choices of what to publish are, to say the least, quite quirky and not to my taste. Equally problematic, he publishes a new edition every other blue moon, i.e., very sporadic and few Caliban Press editions.

P.S. The master of employing unusual art forms and devices in book design and illustration is undoubtedly Claire van Vliet and the Janus Press. After nearly a half century they now have a substantial bibliography which you should explore for similar reading experiences.

>24 Levin40: Fair point! That said, Coraline was £600 and that did NOT include shipping.

>30 dlphcoracl: A couple of these actually are available, at prices not that far off from Lyra's.

Arion Press - $1,000 on eBay.
Hand and Eye - Never seen one on the secondary market.
Caliban Press - $700 on Biblio.

>34 What_What:

Quick comments…..

1. The ideal price for the Arion Press edition is about $700 and this book sells poorly at auction. It has an odd, oversized shape that is user unfriendly and the illustrations are cartoonish, not to everyone’s taste.

2. $700 for the Caliban Press book is excellent and this is a viable option for anyone looking for a private press edition of ‘A Christmas Carol’.

>35 dlphcoracl: Might you be so kind as to share a few photos of the Caliban Press book? The Biblio listing only has a single photo, which (to use the Westworld expression) doesn’t look like anything to me…

Look beautiful. Though I expect nothing less from Rich!

>36 BorisG: they don’t quite do it Justice, but here are a few I posted last year:

https://www.librarything.com/topic/335394#7619677

>36 BorisG:
>38 NathanOv:

Those are excellent photos - I certainly cannot improve upon them.

Again, the $700 price from Priscilla Juvelis (if bought directly from her) is excellent and she is a most reliable bookseller. One can also contact Mark McMurray directly - calibanpress@gmail - although he may not respond for several days to weeks. I purchased my copy directly from Mark.

https://www.juvelisbooks.com/pages/books/11334/charles-caliban-press-dickens/a-g...

>38 NathanOv:
>39 dlphcoracl:

Thank you, both! Based on the photos, it’s a very impressive edition, but Lyra’s Books approach is closer to my heart.

>41 supercell: Congratulations!

Sounds like there will be no lettered copies available - all were taken up by the owners of the previous book. And 13 rights copies are up for grabs in the lottery as well as the additional 100 copies that will always be available.

Has anyone already received an email from Rich after the lottery?

He’s sending out the emails on Wednesday morning.

Thanks for the info!

>45 BorisG: Good luck!!

Just received an email from Rich.
Wonder if I got lucky because it seems like a less desirable title …

>47 j3tang: Hopefully it’s desirable to you!

But that’s how his rights system is supposed to work - not all copies are tied down with previous owners, and some are always available for everyone else.

>47 j3tang: I'm not sure how much "less desirable" it is when 137/150 numbered rights holders and all lettered rights holders bought it without even having a clue as to what the next book would be.

I’m on the fence - I like it, maybe just not enough; it was a non-rights numbered edition. If it carried rights it would have been an easier decision for me.

>49 whytewolf1: From the interview on
https://www.collectiblebookvault.com/post/minds-of-the-press-vol-5

"For the Classics, the next couple of titles will likely be – The Lost World by Arthur Conan Doyle and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum. "

>51 duonkha: That was not published until after preorders for rights holders closed

My numbered arrived today and just want to say that Rich and his team knocked another one out of the park. Stunning edition. A beautiful binding (as is always the case with Lyra’s), lovely overall book design and letterpress printing. Really loved the illustrated stave headings. The 18 illustrations (12 b&w and 6 colour) though, they are the real highlight. Extraordinary. I had an idea of what to expect from Gary Gianni after Arete’s The Case of Death and Honey… but all the same, I’m really blown away again here. The 6 colour plates are something truly special.

Another work of art from Lyra’s that I am super grateful to have in my collection.

>53 GhostOfKasparHauser: Thanks, it was a book that is very close to Gary Gianni's heart and he really felt it was the right time for him to create a Christmas Carol.

Only tangentially related, I just came across the 2022 Will Ferrell & Ryan Reynolds movie "Spirited" (Apple streaming original). Silly modern musical take on A Christmas Carol. Could have been at least 30 min shorter, but worth it for the first Reynolds musical number as a cynical PR consultant (the Scrooge stand-in). Thought folks here might appreciate the comparison with fancy traditional Lyra's Dickens.

>53 GhostOfKasparHauser: Completely agree with everything you've said here. I just received my numbered and it's breathtaking. Even my wife (who could not care less about my book collection) was stunned by the thing purely as an object.

Looks like Lyra is the premier affordable fine press now. Not a fan of most of their publishings, but they sure are gorgeous.

>57 Undergroundman: I disagree. Thornwillow is much more deserving of the title.

>57 Undergroundman:
I agree with you.

>57 Undergroundman: >59 wcarter: Not sure what would even put them in contention for that title. Their pricing seems fair, but nothing exceptional about it.

>60 NathanOv: I agree, and at least personally I have had no luck in securing one of their titles, compared to say the ease with which I can get a Thornwillow or No Reply book. I would have liked to get A Christmas Carol, for example, but even the lowest edition went to lottery. And at $500 for that edition I don't know that they particularly qualify as notably affordable, compared to say the new Amaranthine Library line. There is literally nothing available from the Lyra shop at the moment, which does speak to their success, but doesn't in my mind nominate them for a populist press. It seems like if you're not already in their rights chain, it's down to luck whether you can even partake.

>58 edkennedy: Agreed. Lyra's books seem appropriately priced compared to other offerings, but there is nothing exceptional in terms of value. Century Press and Thornwillow (at least the less expensive states, their more expensive states are not particularly good values) are probably the best letterpress values.

>62 punkzip: Don’t forget TOC.

>63 kdweber: Strong agreement on TOC. Their quality and value for letterpress is superb.

>61 Shadekeep: By affordable I mean under $1000. Numbereds, and lower editions.

>61 Shadekeep: Not to quibble, but since we're talking about affordability, A Christmas Carol was actually £500, which at today's exchange rate at least, is about $620.

>62 punkzip: Consider the craft also. My Barbarian Press Molly Holden cost $700 as well. It was typeset and printed by hand on gorgeous fine press paper. A Christmas Carol was typeset and printed by a machine on non-fine press paper. Both are beautiful books, but only one has extraordinary value at the price.

One man's "affordable" is another man's "Holy crap!"

>68 Glacierman: 😂 One of my collecting mentors is a big Kelmscott / Doves guy. He wisely told me to set a budget for each year, "Something reasonable, say, $30,000." Holy crap indeed!

>67 edkennedy: All true, but I think you're overlooking the strength of Lyra's Books, which are the leather bindings. I didn't much care for Stardust personally, but I think Coraline and Christmas Carol are really well-done. If you're into these full leather presentation books, Lyra's is extraordinary value. A Thornwillow full-leather by comparison might start at twice the price.

>69 grifgon: "If you're into these full leather presentation books, Lyra's is extraordinary value. A Thornwillow full-leather by comparison might start at twice the price."

Is that because Lyra's numbered leather bound states are good values, or the TW full leather books are overpriced? It seems to me that the sweet spot for TW are the paper/half-cloth states.

>68 Glacierman: Exactly right. Affordable for whom? I prefer to focus on value, which is what you actually get for your money. If one can afford anything published in the fine press field, all of the books are affordable, but they may or may not be good values.

>70 punkzip: I'm personally in the "TW full leather books are overpriced' camp, though mainly because the upgrade doesn't appeal to me. However, the half-leather subscriber prices are right in line with what Dorian sold for.

As someone who's not a fan of full leather bindings, I think the real value of Lyra's is in the design and artwork. To me, Dorian feels more like a nice presentation for a new suite of Gregory Manchess paintings than a book I'd collect on its own merit.

Value is so subjective, especially for objects like quality books, that I don't know how meaningful many of these comparisons are.

That said, most of the Lyra's releases don't really have an "entry level" tier that would be equivalent to a Suntup letterpress AE or the recent "library" Amaranthine release. Maybe Stardust quarter cloth and Coraline quarter cloth come closest.

The numbered Christmas Carol, for example, doesn't seem like any part of the vision was sacrificed to keep price down. So yeah it's more expensive than Century Press, but it's also top craftsmen at the top of their game. I guess they could have printed it on a hand press rather than a Heidelberg, but I'm not sure that this particular concept even would have benefitted from that, so it seems a bit silly as a hypothetical.

>67 edkennedy: "non-fine press paper"

What does this mean? I didn't recognize the paper brand, but I assume they were just choosing a paper based on supply chain availability. What makes a paper "fine press" versus not? The paper they used is certainly archival quality, thick, and has a nice texture.

>74 abysswalker: The Heritage paper is definitely fine press quality. It's nothing you'd drool over — akin to Superfine or Flurry or Munken — but it's a good paper for showing off letterpress while keeping costs manageable. Arion and Thornwillow Presses both use comparable papers all the time. As the biggest fine presses, the paper they use is sort of ipso facto fine press.

A lot of this forum is collectors talking past each other because the various communities that come together here have extremely different understandings of what makes something "fine press" and what is to be valued therein.

>66 whytewolf1: A Christmas Carol was actually £500

Oops, yah. An even bigger punch to the figgy pudding for me, then.

>68 Glacierman: One man's "affordable" is another man's "Holy crap!"

Amen to that. I have to pause before shelling out above a dollar amount that many collectors here probably consider loose change. I agree with what punkzip wrote about the value being proportionate to the book in question. I did consider A Christmas Carol pretty much in line with the price, but at the same time I do maintain that Lyra's availability model leaves a lot to be desired for the collector who isn't already in their membership chain. Affordable or not doesn't enter the equation if I can't lay hands on the dang thing.

>72 NathanOv: I'm personally in the "TW full leather books are overpriced' camp

Same here, or at least they haven't really done a leather edition that I absolutely must have. I am very content with their cloth and paper editions.

>75 grifgon:

Talking past each other and comparing fine presses that aren’t really comparable. Comparing Lyra’s and Barbarian is a futile (and somewhat silly) exercise. The same could be said for comparing No Reply Press and Amaranthine. Or Arion Press with Books Illustrated.

I, for one, am extremely happy there are all these fantastic fine presses publishing books from all over the literary map with disparate methods and audiences targeted. It makes it so one has a smorgasbord of options for collecting finely crafted editions.

>70 punkzip: A Thornwillow full-leather at twice the price would actually be reflective of an in-stock "webshop price" of about $1500 (assuming the state wasn't pre-sold out). However, at the introductory or subscriber price, you'd be looking at more like $995, and you're looking at what is likely to be a much lower limitation than Lyra's in this state. (This is all general FYI, as I know grifgon already knows this.)

As far as sweet spots, for me, frankly, that would typically be the half-leather state (at the subscriber price of about $595-695), which is also roughly equivalent to what a Lyra's Dorian (also half-leather) sold for. I would say that the half-cloth editions are the best overall value, though.

>77 GhostOfKasparHauser: Completely agree 👍👍

>78 whytewolf1: One of the unsung praises of Thornwillow is the quality of their leather, too, which is always the best of the best. A single TWP full-leather may have a $300 hide behind it.

>77 GhostOfKasparHauser: Agree, also!

>79 grifgon: Interesting! And very cool. :)

>77 GhostOfKasparHauser: Comparing Lyra’s and Barbarian is a futile (and somewhat silly) exercise.

Could not disagree more. In fact, comparing presses and their products is one of the best way to determine what a consumer may enjoy and wish to collect. I see NOTHING "silly" nor "futile" in such comparisons which frankly is done every day for probably millions of products. When you go shopping for a car, I bet you compare what you're interested in across various manufacturers. When you go shopping for a computer, I bet you do the same. And yet, somehow, when it comes to books, we're told "oh dear! no, you can't compare the two! Sure, they're both letterpress publishers that consider themselves fine press, but don't you dare compare them!" Now that, in my mind, is silly.

>81 astropi: I agree with our Ghostly friend because you are not comparing like things. Apples and oranges. Comparing a book from Suntup with a book from Greenboathouse is like comparing a commercial jetliner to a handmade bespoke bicycle. Well, except they if they cost the same. Bad analogy. 😂 But I do think that if you're mindful of the craft, these books become extremely different from one another to the point of being categorically different and therefore incomparable.

>82 grifgon: Well, comparison is just as much about looking at differences as similarities. I think that first Sudden Immobility vs. A Christmas Carol comparison was totally fair, because it took two items at similar price points and highlighted the high quality materials and printing you can get in one over the other, if that happens to be your preference akin to >81 astropi:'s point.

Of course each press is taking their own approach, but fine press is still a relatively small niche of publishing, so of course most fine presses can be fairly compared on what they offer at different price points, or on numerous other factors.

>82 grifgon:

A fair point, but when does the comparison become apples to apples for fine press? Never?

Is a Suntup to Thornwillow an apples to apples comparison? Or Arion Press to Thornwillow? Barbarian Press to Foolscap Press?

>83 NathanOv: Yeah, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "compare". I took GhostOfKasparHauser to mean that you couldn't the books of different presses without an eye toward their craft methods. Of course, the craft methods themself are the primary point of comparison in fine presswork. "Each press is taking its own approach" sort of underplays how vast the craft differences are.

>84 ultrarightist: Barbarian and Greenboathouse can be compared pretty directly, as they use (so far as I know) the same craft methods and oftentimes the same binder. Thornwillow Today and Lyra's use essentially the same craft methods, except in the sewing of the books. Thornwillow Pre-2010 was extremely different. Arion Press is all over the map in the methods they use, so it depends on the edition. Etc. Etc.

>85 grifgon: "Thornwillow Today and Lyra's use essentially the same craft methods, except in the sewing of the books. Thornwillow Pre-2010 was extremely different"

How do TW today and Lyra's differ in the sewing of the books? How was pre-2010 TW extremely different?

>82 grifgon:

This was my point. Aside from being often of similar price points there is little point in comparing Sudden Immobility to Stardust (or a Christmas Carol). One is small run, hand-crafted, choosing literature targeted at a very specific audience. The other has hand-crafted elements but also more mass production methods and has chosen a popular fantasy genre work with mass market appeal. Even going by publishing choices these presses are all targeting different audiences. Will there be some overlap, at times, sure.

And while some may have the funds to collect fine press editions of literary works they aren’t really interested in, just for the artisan aspect, the art, the letterpress, the paper, the binding… that’s a very exclusive group of people.

If Lyra’s published something along the lines of Sudden Immobility the comparison becomes relevant, otherwise one is comparing apples to oranges, like you said.

For an analogy, I wouldn’t compare a $100k 4x4 truck to a $100k sports car. It would be silly.

>86 punkzip: Lyra's sewing: https://www.instagram.com/p/CGDMvaVJet1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Thornwillow's sewing: https://www.instagram.com/p/BuWv3IgFjsj/?hl=en (I'm sure there's a video somewhere on their Instagram too.)

Both Smyth-sewn, but with very different machines. (Compare that to the needle and thread handiwork that many private presses employ: utterly different.)

Pre-2010 Thornwillow books were set with hot metal, printed on handmade paper made at the press itself (a nearly unique achievement for fine presswork), and largely printed on proofing presses or platen presses. The change in methods to polymer, machine-made paper, and Heidelberg cylinder press is what has empowered Thornwillow to make their books more widely accessible. Thornwillow did wonderful work then, and does wonderful now, but the editions are fundamentally different.

>87 GhostOfKasparHauser: I totally agree with your agreement of my agreement with you. 😂 Come to Portland and I'll buy you a beer!

>87 GhostOfKasparHauser: “ For an analogy, I wouldn’t compare a $100k 4x4 truck to a $100k sports car. It would be silly.”

You might not set them side by side and compare their merits (though you certainly could, but if you have a $100k budget and both have been on your radar, then there’s plenty you can still compare.

I think it’s silly to claim sorry, these books simply can’t be compared when there’s clearly plenty of overlapping merits to consider when it comes to actually selecting books for one’s collection.

>89 NathanOv:

I don’t know about that. If you want/need a truck you’re probably not looking at a sports car and the same the other way. I don’t see much to compare there. I guess you could, but for me, comparing a truck to a sports car would be silly.

For me, I’ll compare Lyra’s to Barbarian or Amaranthine to No Reply or Books Illustrated to Arion, etc etc when they publish books of similar sorts. Not relatively obscure poetry books vs some of the most popular works of fiction out there.

I think we’ll all just have to disagree here. I find the constant comparisons of (what I consider) disparate things silly, and some find what I have just written silly. That’s alright. We all have our opinions.

>90 GhostOfKasparHauser: At the end of the day, you’re comparing them and making decisions anyway. It’s sort of a moot point.

>91 NathanOv: Exactly. They're always being compared anyway, even if it's at the level of 'I like the titles you publish' vs 'I don't like the titles you publish'.

In my time on this forum, I've noticed that the central confusion with fine press comparisons is over the relative importance of the title being published (which, let's face it, could be read - if that's what's most important - for free or for very little) vs the book as object and all the associated design, material and craftsmanship aspects which go with that. Things are fine when these are aligned (I don't like the title AND the book as object or I like the title AND book as object), but it's when alignment doesn't occur (in particular, I like the book as object but not the title) that people's heads start to spin. Case in point: last week's discussion over Lyra's The Alchemist. But at the end of the day, the book as object aspect is clearly where your money is going when you purchase fine press.

Well of course you want to buy a fine press book with a title you like but I don't think it's as black and white as you make it seem. For me there's a lot of grey and probably a third of my fine press books are ones that I never heard of before, medieval manuscripts, or poets whom I've only read one or two of their poems. I like publishing companies that take risks and think outside the box. Personally it's just quite disappointing Lyra chose The Alchemist, an uninspiring, risk averse selection, which according to Penguin Random House is one of two books that sold more than 100 million copies (150 million for the Alchemist) in the past half century with the other being, big surprise, Harry Potter. It could probably be classified as popular popular popular fiction. Obviously it will sell out within minutes but if they at least tried to be creative, even if I didn't love the title, I would seriously consider purchasing the title.

>92 Levin40: This probably still counts as "the book as object," but for me it's all about how that translates into an excellent reading experience.

So yes >93 Joshbooks1:, the title has to be one I'm interested in at a minimum whether or not I've read or heard of them before, but it has to be an exceptional interpretation of the work for me to want it in a fine press edition. I've definitely used those same criteria to decide between a book of lesser-known poetry or a popular novel before.

>93 Joshbooks1: if they at least tried to be creative, even if I didn't love the title, I would seriously consider purchasing the title.

If I understand correctly, by "be creative" you mean Lyra should choose a title you approve of! That seems to be a recurring theme here. People are complaining about Rich so much, that you would think he was a traitor to the book arts! "How dare he choose a popular book that has sold millions of copies!" Well, the more people complain, the more I'm convinced it's a great choice.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/books/paulo-coelho-writing-in-a-global-langua...
"But the one thing I cannot stand," Mr. Coelho went on, "is criticism of the reader, that the reader is dumb. You can speak badly of me, of my books, but you cannot speak badly of the reader. It's like saying, 'Everyone is dumb; the only one who isn't is the critic.' That's not fair."

>95 astropi: Interesting, who is saying that the reader (I assume Coelho is referring to readers of his books?) is dumb?

>96 punkzip: He's referring to negativity from critics who were saying things like, well frankly, I feel like what some people have said on this thread. Again, being critical of a work is expected. Stating opinions is great. At the end of the day saying, or implying, something like "Oh, you enjoyed that book? It's mindless. What a waste of money. Don't you know that Blah-Blah Press is releasing their next edition of Poets You've Never Heard Of with woodcuts by a bunny rabbit and it will be quarter-bound in something for only $4000 and clearly that's WAY better than some author that is beloved by millions!"

>97 astropi:

But one of the main criticisms of Coelho’s work is that it is shallow and superficial, and a bit mindless. That doesn’t mean someone is dumb for enjoying it. Just like the prevailing critical opinion that a book series like Twilight is rubbish as far as literary merit goes, doesn’t mean that the millions who also read it are dumb.

I don’t think anyone is bothered by others enjoying the Alchemist or being excited to see a fine press edition of it. More so expressing their own dislike for it and disappointment that a press that makes beautiful books chose it. I don’t see much wrong with that.

With your example, aren’t you just arguing against your own point above where you said that people should absolutely compare the merits of fine press editions regardless of how different they are?

>95 astropi: "But the one thing I cannot stand," Mr. Coelho went on, "is criticism of the reader, that the reader is dumb. You can speak badly of me, of my books, but you cannot speak badly of the reader."

It's like the bookstore clerk who, when a customer asks for assistance in making a selection, asks what they are interested in and then, upon hearing the response, says, "I can't believe you read that crap."

>98 GhostOfKasparHauser: With your example, aren’t you just arguing against your own point above where you said that people should absolutely compare the merits of fine press editions regardless of how different they are?
People should share opinions and thoughtful, insightful, comparisons are always appreciated. Reading some of the posts on this thread and some other threads, some of the comments (certainly not all) read more like an ad hominem attack than anything else.

>99 Glacierman: Indeed!

>100 astropi:

That’s a fair point. I agree with this.

While Lyra's Classics aren't generally in line with my collecting preferences, I do have to praise how thoughtfully the illustrations are treated and how well-paired they are with the text.

Painting the different iterations of the Portrait in Dorian was already an inspired choice, but pairing them, (with one justified exception), to the instances in the story when Dorian actually views the portrait was a great decision. I also appreciate that Manchess struck a balance of interpreting descriptions of the portrait's changes while also incorporating scenes from the story.

While I haven't finished A Christmas Carol yet, I love that Gary Gianni interprets specific scenes with vivid details from the text, and that Rich (or possibly Marcelo?) has made sure to place these illustrations opposite the matching passages.

It's a small thing, but one that a lot other presses overlook in my experience, with illustrations often only loosely matching the text, and placed rather haphazardly throughout the text.

>102 NathanOv: Thanks Nathan, really, thanks! I spend months, if not a year making sure that the books have a reading experience that ensure the images are placed in the way that they enhance the read. It really bugs me when illustrations are only loosely and casually placed. When Rich suggested Dorian, it was a story that, for the last ten years, I had thought could only be done by showing the painting becoming more degraded. I thought that the way all the other books had dramatic moments could actually be shown as backgrounds to the portrait. I also felt that the only way to have the portrait painted was to be in the style of Singer Sargent, hence Greg Manchess. Rich wanted the book done quite fast so Greg and I worked pretty intensively to do the paintings, I wanted him to start the painting, do the rough painting, scan it, then paint the portrait, scan that, paint over as he changed, scanning each painting, which was to be the same portrait. However, we needed to be faster than the scans! So we ended up with two paintings.

Christmas Carol is closer to how I like to design an illustrated book, after 25 years designing them, I am very conscious of how the reader subliminally takes an image in. Gary and I work from initial sketches and he gives me a variety of scenes to make sure that I can work, exactly as your experience, the images add and involve the reader. Sometimes it can take many, many months talking with an artist to find the visual theme that holds a view of the story before even starting a books design. It makes me so happy that you have noticed the subtle design! Thank you!

With metal letterpress it is an entirely different work process. I design the book as I have described, then when the proofs come in, redesign the book based on cutting out each line of type so that the page turns, reveals of the image and reader experience is not affected, and one is not pulled out of the story by poor placement and design.

Every book I do, I think about every part of the interior, (Rich does all the 'exterior' and we discuss daily about both) with Quark, and now with Indesign, I can make sure that even the paragraphs roll easily to the eye as much as possible. It is a steep learning curve to realise that the craft of hot metal does not seem to consider these subtleties and actually have to go back to when I first started using cut outs and paste to make these page turns work smoothly as possible with a fixed dimension of the type, and really complement both the story and images.

>103 marceloanciano: It's always great to hear that I experienced / interpreted the work as the designer and artist intended. I really appreciate that attention of detail to the interior of the book, since at the end of the day I collect fine press for the elevated reading experience.

Frozen Hell has been one of my most anticipated fine press releases since you first announced it, so seeing your collaboration with Gregory Manchess in Dorian, and more examples of your interior book design in both of these publications has me all the more excited for it!

>104 NathanOv: Frozen Hell is coming together, just trying to find the right paper. For both the paintings and the text, we have the monotype and all the paintings and Rich has all his designs, now for that final push...

Novice question, do the tissue guards need to stay in place forever, or can you safely remove them after a period of time?

>106 EdmundRodriguez: We wanted to have the plates to not have a glassine page, like Stardust, but also have a protection, Rich felt that a reader could take out the tissue and replace after reading. I quite like the stories to not have them, Rich had experiences with scratches and colour affecting the page so put tissues in just in case.

>103 marceloanciano: Thank you for all your hard work! It is absolutely appreciated and I look forward to more :)
Happy Holidays!

>103 marceloanciano: I am halfway through reading my gorgeous new A Christmas Carol and it does create a lovely reading experience! Thank you for all you do Marcelo. All that hard work sure shows. Merry Christmas and happy holidays!

The BBDPA 2023 shortlist is out.

This time, Lyra's Books managed one nomination with A Christmas Carol (Lettered Edition) and another with Coraline (Lettered Edition), both in the Best British Book category. Congrats to Rich and the rest of the team!

The Folio Society also got a bumper crop of nominations:
* The Waste Land (Fine Binding & Limited Edition)
* Monkey (Literature)
* Norwegian Wood (Literature)
* The Neverending Story (Literature)
* Their Eyes Were Watching God (Literature)
* Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar (Scholarly, Academic and Reference Books)
* The Order of Time (Scholarly, Academic and Reference Books)
* Jaws (Best Jacket / Cover Design)
* Trainspotting (Best Jacket / Cover Design)
* The Tale of Peter Rabbit (Best British Book)

The winners will be announced early next year, on January 24, 2024.

>110 supercell: Folio surely deserves some design nominations, but I scratch my head every year not only at the sheer number, but at the books recognized in lieu of others.

>111 NathanOv: Agreed. Not sure how the FS The Waste Land gets a nomination in "Fine Binding & Limited Edition" but Lyra's editions do not??? Sounds like favoritism.

>6 Shadekeep:

Specifically, what did you set the height and width of your postimages.org photos at to achieve this degree of enlargement in your photos above?

>6 Shadekeep:

How did you enlarge the photos (postimages.org., I assume) posted above to this degree? What did you set the height and width at to enlarge your postimages.org photos to this degree or did you do something else to get this degree of photo enlargement?