Foundation Back in print in late July.

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Foundation Back in print in late July.

1Charon49
Modificato: Giu 8, 8:52am

Questo messaggio è stato cancellato dall'autore.

2Cat_of_Ulthar
Giu 8, 1:47pm

'Foundation Back'?

I don't recall that volume in the series. A Folio original?

(Sorry, cheap laugh, I'll go and chastise myself now.)

3Cat_of_Ulthar
Giu 8, 3:11pm

On Second Thoughts, let's play:

His Damp Materials;

The Master and Margarine;

A Storm of Words;

The Folio Book of Hummus;

Beagle Against the Sun (starring Snoopy, of course);

The Spy Who Loved Bees;

Bee Profundis;

Planet of the Bees;

A Confederacy of Bees;

The Longest Bee;

The Selfish Bee;

Thunderbee;

How to See Bees;

Anansi Bees;

Of Bees and Men;

The Illustrated Bee;

So Long, and Thanks for All the Bees

Okay, that got a bit bee-fixated but that's the fun of this nonsense. You never know quite where you are going to end up. :-)

4plasticjock
Giu 15, 1:29am

>3 Cat_of_Ulthar: Your post immediately put me in mind of games played in Bloomsbury during Friday lunchtime sessions in the late 70s, early 80s. These boozy, shouty afternoons were attended by Martin Amis, Ian McEwan, Julian Barnes, Christopher Hitchens, Clive James, Robert Conquest, James Fenton, Terry Kilmartin, occasionally Kingsley Amis, and others…

Their conversations ranged far and wide, but often included long passages of wordplay. Here’s a quote from Christopher Hitchens’ autobiography Hitch-22:

“As for the word games, just bear with me if you would. Try, first, turning the word “House” into “Sock.” OK: Bleak Sock, Heartbreak Sock, The Fall of the Sock of Usher, The Sock of Atreus, The Sock of the Seven Gables, The Sock of the Rising Sun… This can take time, as can the substitution (a very common English vulgarism) of the word “c***,” for the word “man.” Thus: A C*** for All Seasons, A C***’s a C*** for All That, He Was a C***: Take Him for All in All, The C*** Who Shot Liberty Valance, Batc***, Superc*** (I know, I know but one must keep the pot boiling) and then, all right, a shift to the only hardly less coarse word “prong,” as in The Prong with the Golden Gun, Our Prong in Havana, Prongs without Women, Those Magnificent Prongs in Their Flying Machines, and so forth. These and other similarly gruelling routines had to be rolled around the palate and the tongue many a time before Clive James suddenly exclaimed: “ ‘A Shropshire C***.’ By A.E. Sockprong.” This symbiosis seemed somehow to make the long interludes of puerility worthwhile.”

5Cat_of_Ulthar
Giu 16, 1:22am

>4 plasticjock:

Sounds like it would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall at some of those sessions even if they did turn a bit Derek and Clive (Peter Cook and Dudley Moores' filthy alter egos for anyone who doesn't know them). I might have to invest in a copy of Hitchens' autobiography.

I was actually inspired by a round from I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue where they take a theme and modify titles of books, plays, movies, etc, to suit but I assume the game or variants of it had been around long before Clue came along.

6AHub
Giu 16, 7:45am

The price has dropped on the UK site from 120 to 95 GBP. I wonder what's going on there then?

7whytewolf1
Giu 16, 10:43am

>6 AHub: Listed as $150 on the US site

8RRCBS
Giu 16, 10:59am

I bought the Everyman’s Library volume years ago, now mulling over this one. I hate having duplicates, but wouldn’t have anyone to gift the EL to.

9folio_books
Giu 16, 11:46am

>6 AHub: The price has dropped on the UK site from 120 to 95 GBP. I wonder what's going on there then?

The sale price, perhaps?

10NLNils
Modificato: Giu 17, 2:41am

>6 AHub: Most likely a Chinese printing.

11AHub
Giu 17, 3:37am

Yes, I suppose it might indicate that. Or, perhaps the cost of a reprint excludes development costs so they can offer it cheaper? Or perhaps they don't want the mark up from the original sale price to be too conspicuous? Perhaps they just love science fiction fans that much :)

12AHub
Giu 17, 3:45am

>9 folio_books: Yes, though I had assumed they wouldn't offer it in the sale seeing as how its so new.

13folio_books
Giu 17, 4:40am

>12 AHub:

It might seem new but I just fished Volume 1 off the shelf and learned it was printed in 2012.

14RRCBS
Giu 17, 5:02am

>13 folio_books: But you think they would reprint it and right away offer it in a sale?

15AHub
Giu 17, 5:04am

>13 folio_books: Yes, but this is a reprint. They newly added the price on the listing about two weeks ago, but then reduced that price before the edition was even been available to purchase.

16folio_books
Giu 17, 5:09am

>14 RRCBS:

I think that very unlikely. They're much more likely to reprint with a significantly increased price. I was just thinking out loud about why the price would drop, other than a mistake.

Talking of The Sale, I am advised it won't be such a big event this year. I interpreted that to mean they have been more successful selling at full price, which has to be good news. Bring on the next catalogue!

17RRCBS
Giu 17, 10:45am

>16 folio_books: Not surprised, good for them! I love sales, but it’s best for FS to be making good profits.

I’m excited for the Fall catalogue too!

18Juniper_tree
Modificato: Giu 17, 12:07pm

Even at £99 it’s still a substantial increase on what it was before, that’s an increase of £20 in less than 18 months. I think the FS probably felt that £120 was pushing it a little far.

19ubiquitousuk
Giu 18, 10:01am

When I look on the website now it seems like the price has gone back up to £120 :(.

20ultrarightist
Giu 18, 3:48pm

>19 ubiquitousuk: The price for what? The sold old listing for the Foundation Trilogy? If so, what's the significance? That does not mean that the new listing will be listed at that price.

21ubiquitousuk
Modificato: Giu 18, 5:28pm

>20 ultrarightist: well, the price on that listing was reduced from £120 to £95 within the last week (as per >9 folio_books:). I think many here took this as an indication of pricing intent from Folio---why else would they be changing the price of an out-of-print soon-to-be-reprinted book? But now the price has been put back up; mysterious and a bit disappointing.

22Juniper_tree
Giu 18, 6:26pm

>20 ultrarightist: the last time it was in stock 18months ago it sold for £79.95, so fair to assume whatever it currently is on the page is probably what it will be this time around.

23warehouseisbare
Giu 18, 6:47pm

Count me as one who is disappointed at the price increase. I would have definitely purchased if it was $150 but at almost $200 I think I’ll pass. The price increases are disappointing to me. I have to ask, what is Folio Society doing to keep existing and gain more middle class customers? That’s a huge market. I don’t mind some minor price increases but if the rumor is true that the sale won’t be much to talk about, that will make two in a row that were very lackluster. I’m not saying they should give their books away or always have great sales but from time to time I think it’s good business to have some deals to get new customers and keep your existing customers who are a little more budget minded.

24Charon49
Giu 18, 9:08pm

A 33% price increase in under 3 years is quite the price hike and prohibitive to customers making regular purchases unless they are quite well off.

25ironjaw
Giu 19, 12:26pm

I have a hunch that folio are increasing the profit margin as much as possible to be classed as luxury books. I wonder what the average price for a folio now and five or ten years ago?

26whytewolf1
Giu 19, 1:28pm

I understand that it can be frustrating to folks when prices go up, but before you decide that FS are a bunch of cold-hearted profiteers, you might want to check out the recent thread here with a link to a PDF that's a report on their 2020 financials.

In 2020, Folio had sales of £11.5 million and from that they made a princely profit of... £300,000.

They actually lost £200,000 the year before.

So, maybe we can cut them a break on the price increases, especially since it's a provable fact that during the past 18 months material costs (including paper) have gone up precipitously.

27Quicksilver66
Giu 19, 3:11pm

>25 ironjaw: Faisel. I seem to remember that when I started buying FS books about 12 years ago the average price was in the £30 to £50 pound range. Now it’s in the £50 to £80 range.

28warehouseisbare
Giu 19, 3:46pm

>26 whytewolf1:

No one said they were cold-hearted bad guys. I just think they could focus SOME more on the middle class market without hurting their “luxury book” brand. Maybe they’d even stop losing so much money or gaining so little, if that financial report is completely accurate. And I don’t think they’d have to or should sacrifice anything in terms of quality. I think their books are great quality but they are overpriced in my opinion. Now, I don’t mind paying full price on many of their books, I just think they could do some good sales, deals, whatever from time to time to gain more and keep existing middle class buyers.

29whytewolf1
Giu 19, 4:44pm

>28 warehouseisbare: I was reading between the lines as far as the "profiteers" comment.

But what you're essentially asking them to do is sacrifice quality in favor of lower prices. Respectfully, if they're hardly turning a profit now, how do you suggest they maintain quality and lower prices?

Frankly, I don't think their books are overpriced. In US$ a typical trade hardcover sells for around $27-35 today and also typically offers low-quality paper and a low-quality binding at that price point. Academic Press hardcovers are generally about $40-60. Folio hardcovers with sewn bindings, original color illustrations, quality acid-free paper, and at least a rudimentary slipcase are around $70 on average. Hard to see how that's overpriced.

Of course, that doesn't mean that I don't sympathize with those who find them hard to afford at the current price level. However, that is not the same issue as their being overpriced.

30warehouseisbare
Modificato: Giu 19, 7:11pm

>29 whytewolf1:

MSRP and what hardcovers actually sell for are two different things. If you think most hardcovers sell for $27 to $35 I think you’re way wrong. And on that note many actually do have acid free paper now so big whoop. I have plenty on my shelf that can prove that point. And there are many acid free, sewn binding books for way less than $40 to $60. I have a Frog and Toad book from Barnes and Noble that is a regular $10 book that is sewn. It’s simple economics, you lower your price (and they are over priced for the most part...I do agree the $60 to $80 books aren’t really overpriced) and you get access to a larger customer base. I’m not even saying they should lower their price but a decent sale every now and then isn’t too much to ask for and and despite how much you disagree, I DEFINITELY think a decent sale would bring them more customers, more orders, more profit.

31whytewolf1
Giu 19, 7:51pm

>30 warehouseisbare: Like it or not, Folio Society is now a luxury brand-- accessible luxury, but luxury, nonetheless.

The economics of business are different for luxury brands, especially those who have no direct competition for their offerings (i.e. Folio doesn't have anyone competing with them on price for Folio books). The truth is Folio would probably benefit from raising their prices, lowering their volume, and going more niche.

For luxury brands, running sales featuring deep discounts actually devalues the perception of the brand in the marketplace, and it typically kills far more profit than it brings in. Those deeply discounted sales that you and everyone else miss were more a symptom of poor inventory management and an excessive release schedule than any clever way to attract more customers and make more profits. If those sales had been, in fact, working well for them, don't you think they'd still be running them? In fact, Folio was losing money most of the years they had those sales.

Incidentally, if this is true: "I do agree the $60 to $80 books aren’t really overpriced" I don't know what we're debating for anyway. The $140 books, for example, could certainly be produced cheaper, but many customers like the extra bells and whistles for the extra money, and so most of those books (Dune, Stranger in a Strange Land, The Godfather) actually sell very well. As I said earlier, Folio would probably be better off doing more of this.

All this being said, Folio will do as it thinks best, regardless of opinions spouted here (mine included), so it's a moot point anyway.

32warehouseisbare
Giu 19, 10:09pm

>31 whytewolf1:

You may well be correct on your points. I have certainly seen companies make more profit by completely cutting out the middle class and focusing solely on a luxury only crowd. I’m not convinced they wouldn’t do better though by focusing on bringing more customers in by continuing to have decent deals from time to time. There are many marketing techniques and strategies to use without hurting the luxury image. You’re the only one talking about cutting the quality of the book though...I’ve never mentioned that nor would I. You are also right that business is different for luxury brands because they don’t want to lose the luxury image or devalue their product. Like I said before, I think there are ways to keep their image and increase profits way more than, as you pointed out, they've been able to do. Let me honestly ask you...you said that having a sale devalued the company’s perception. Do you honestly believe that is true with what FS has done with past sales? I can see if they had sales all of the time but that is not the case. I have never once felt like FS was devaluing their perception with their twice a year sales, even when they were good. I mean, yes doing it all of the time like a McDonalds monthly special would do that but not like FS has...no way.

I agree though that they should do what they think is best and I can concede that you could be right about the focusing all-in on the high class crowd. I just think keeping twice a year sales that are decent brings new customers into the brand and allows those of us without higher incomes a short opportunity to get some more product. If you are true to your word that you do sympathize with us I don’t think a decent twice a year sale is too much to ask for, nor do I think it’s accusing FS of being a money hungry company. Thanks for the chat though! I appreciate your perspective on things. I’ll probably leave it where it is because I can see your side of it too and I’ve said what I think enough. Who really cares what we think anyway? 😃

33SF-72
Giu 20, 4:01am

I agree that the sales are nice for us, but to the degree they sometimes went it looked to me that a lot of it was trying to get rid of stock they couldn't otherwise sell, which can't be good for a business if it happens to a too large degree. The letterpress Shakespeare comes to mind, as well as some other limited editions that were highly reduced. However: I must also say from personal experience as well as from a friends that if the regular prices are too high, especially for standard editions, the inhibition threshold can just get too high for FS to reach a good number of (new) customers. That's all the more true because you can't see FS books in a shop and be impressed enough to buy a book despite the price. I got there because they had lower-priced books as well as a very appealing deal for new members back in 2012. My friend got into it last year because she really likes Neil Gaiman and I recommended the two books FS published. After she saw those in person, she bought more by other authors. If FS push the prices too much, they will lose what could be a larger customer base for a much smaller one that currently considers books attractive luxury goods. That could change - I think we're dealing with a bubble at the moment. Having a range of prices that can pull in people who aren't very rich certainly wouldn't harm or devalue their brand.

34U_238
Giu 20, 4:05pm

>30 warehouseisbare: If their profit margin is barely 2.6% and they lower their price as you ask, it's likely they'd just lose money.

It's like losing on every sale and hoping to make it up in volume somehow.

Without repeating the same points, I share the same opinions as whytewolf1.

35Willoyd
Modificato: Giu 20, 4:20pm

>31 whytewolf1:
For luxury brands, running sales featuring deep discounts actually devalues the perception of the brand in the marketplace, and it typically kills far more profit than it brings in. Those deeply discounted sales that you and everyone else miss were more a symptom of poor inventory management and an excessive release schedule than any clever way to attract more customers and make more profits. If those sales had been, in fact, working well for them, don't you think they'd still be running them? In fact, Folio was losing money most of the years they had those sales.

The whole model was different though: for instance, sales were only available to members who had already paid for at least 4 full price books. It was the membership that was effectively the exclusive part of the brand, not the books, so the sales didn't do the brand any damage. In fact, the whole point of FS was that it wasn't a 'luxury' brand, but one that produced fine books at everyman prices.

I think you'll find that, Folio was making money most of the years they had those sales. IIRC, it was only relatively recently that they moved into loss (but I'm too lazy to go and check!).

As for 'excessive release schedule', the FS are producing far, far more books than they ever did. Or have I misunderstood you?

36thisGuy33
Giu 20, 5:20pm

>26 whytewolf1: I personally never take any companies 'public' 'financial report' as being anything more than them attempting to make their company 'appear' a certain way.

Not accusing anyone of 'lying' or being anything but 'business minded'.

But these 'financial statements' are similar to statements of 'percentages'. You can never assume too much accuracy in either of them. 'Percentages' are historically used to manipulate/skew ones view of things. It's very easy to get a 'percentage' to work in the favor of the point you are pursuing. There have been tons of books/articles written on percentage theory and manipulation.

As is the same when it comes to public statements of financials.

Take for example the report that has been recently going around with billionaire guys like Jeff Bezos (amazon) or Warren Buffett (but all the rich folks do this so it's not limited to them) ...

... the short version of the report goes as follows ... ultra rich person pays zero taxes. End of story

lol

But seriously ... how they do this ... is super smart ... but borders on the 'ethical'. Say in a single year ... a company makes 200 billion dollars ... they are allowed to not take an income that year. And since they are already rich ... they have plenty of money saved where they don't need to take an income. So for that year ... they pay no 'income' tax because they have supposedly made no 'income'. And because there is no 'wealth' tax ... they have to hardly ever pay tax.

Another way they keep playing this game is ... instead of ever taking 'income' from their obviously very profitable company ... they instead borrow against their wealth ... meaning they take loans out and pay a low 1-3% interest on that loan ... instead of paying 40% on any income they would have instead taken.

It's a game of money chess. And all companies do it. I'm pretty sure even FS does it.

So I assume they are hardly 'losing' money and I would bet that their yearly profits are rather healthy.

That said ... I too share the opinion that their prices are very reasonable. Buy a crap book at Barnes and Noble for $35 ... or a really well made FS book for $70 ... I think that's a fair price.

Now if FS starts to raise those prices to over $100 ... then I might rethink my FS purchases.

37whytewolf1
Modificato: Giu 20, 7:28pm

>35 Willoyd: I'm not comparing Folio's practices today with Folio's of yesteryear (i.e. a couple or a few decades back) when they had a membership model (I was a member myself back then, starting in the 90s), but of those sales in recent years where people remember 50% off deals left and right. I also understand that Folio was founded as an everyman's brand of quality books, but can we really say that a publisher which routinely publishes single volumes priced at $100+ or which publishes several limited editions a year that are priced at $350-$995 is an everyman's publisher?

And the recent years when they were losing money on those massive sales are exactly what I'm talking about, as people have been bemoaning the loss of sales similar to those.

Folio's release schedule has now, I believe, returned to about the number of volumes they were producing quite some time back. It is in the fairly recent years, roughly coinciding with the massive sales that they had moved to record numbers of releases.

I was defending where they are now.

Throughout the Nineties and early 2000s, Folio basically produced 35-55 books per year (previous to that, the number of releases was even lower). Then around 2005, they started on a bit of a tear, topping out at 110 releases in 2008. But here are the exact number from fairly recent years.

Number of releases:
2019 - 56
2020 - 50

as compared to...

2011 - 88
2012 - 72
2013 - 63
2014 - 65
2015 - 75
2016 - 67
2017 - 74
2018 - 69

Keep in mind, also, that after several years of such a large number of releases, there is likely to be a substantial increase in the total size of the "in-print" catalog with a corresponding increase in capital tied up in and holding costs of inventory.

Anyhow... they may or may not have lost money all of those years, but like poor nutrition, poor business decisions can take a while to show up on the bottom line, just as I expect these changes they have made in the past couple of years will produce more dividends in a few years than they have so far since I'm sure that £300K profit on £11.5M is not their ultimate goal.

38warehouseisbare
Giu 20, 8:17pm

>34 U_238:

I’m not saying that they should lower their prices other than a TWICE A YEAR decent sale on some items. Let me guess, you are very well off financially so of course you don’t care whether they do this or not. You guys can also go ahead and believe all of those financial reports all you’d like. I don’t believe they accurately reflect all things, and even if I did I don’t think it helps the case that they should keep prices the same or increase prices. I was brought into FS because of a decent sale and have purchased almost all of my small collection at full price. I don’t speak for everyone who isn’t extremely well off financially but arguing if two sales a year is horrible for business...ok. I think it’s funny that it’s automatically assumed by some of you that every sale item was a horrible selling book too. Doubt it...sales aren’t always an inventory dump.

I do think the books are overpriced. I understand you don’t but you’re probably pretty well off financially. If I was too I’d totally agree with you because I’d have more disposable income but they are expensive for the middle class. I have many books on shelves in my house that have sewn bindings and are hardcover/acid free and they are great books with award winning illustrations at times or at least great illustrations. They have great paper quality, many have cloth bindings. I think the acid free/sewn binding argument is weak for a huge price differential compared to other acid free/sewn books. And I want to know what place you guys are buying your hardcover books from because I buy mine from Amazon and they aren’t CLOSE to $35 on average. Maybes half that. The one thing I do like about FS is the custom illustrations and the not made in China aspect (for the most part). I do think those aspects have significant value and are worth paying more for.

39RRCBS
Giu 20, 8:44pm

>38 warehouseisbare: I’m curious about what other publishers you’re referring to with the books with sewn binding and acid free paper? Always looking for new options.

40warehouseisbare
Giu 20, 10:57pm

>39 RRCBS:

Hey man! I didn’t look too closely to be honest but I know that a lot of them are big name publishers where it isn’t necessarily standard for them to use sewn and/or acid free. Maybe some of the books that I own are just a little more of their higher end books. Off the top of my head I knew that my 5 Red Rising series books are acid free and printed in the USA by Del Rey. I also have editions of The Hobbit and LOTR that are definitely sewn (though they are printed in China) Houghton Mifflin. I know the Jim Kay Harry Potter’s are gorgeous and sewn...I think I paid $22 each or less for those on Amazon and those are published by Scholastic. I pulled 6 random hardcover Usborne books off of my kids shelf and they were all sewn. Sorry that I can’t be if more help with a publisher that has regular high standards. It does seem pretty random and I do love how FS isn’t random with it.

41TheEconomist
Giu 21, 8:44am

>35 Willoyd: "I think you'll find that, Folio was making money most of the years they had those sales. IIRC, it was only relatively recently that they moved into loss."

This statement is probably true, but you do also need to take into account that until a few years ago FS had the use of a substantial London property in a prime location, and now they do not. I haven't been through the accounts with a toothcomb, but my guess is that the society did not pay anywhere near full market rent for that property, if indeed they paid anything at all. The loss of the use of that property is, I suspect, the main reason why FS has had to restructure its model in the last few years.

Incidentally, why are people talking about FS sales as if they were a thing of the past? I agree that the sale earlier this year was a slight disappointment, but the 2020 sales were pretty good, IMHO, and as far as I am aware we are expecting there to be a sale later this summer.

42Charon49
Modificato: Giu 21, 10:45am

>41 TheEconomist: I believe it was mentioned that Folio Society said something to the effect of it wouldn’t be a large sale again so it does tend to look like there will be fewer titles included with many more titles selling out of late. I just hope they keep to the usual 50% off they usually do for this sale I fear it may creep to the 20%.

43folio_books
Giu 21, 1:17pm

>41 TheEconomist: I haven't been through the accounts with a toothcomb, but my guess is that the society did not pay anywhere near full market rent for that property, if indeed they paid anything at all. The loss of the use of that property is, I suspect, the main reason why FS has had to restructure its model in the last few years.

My recollection is they owned the property and the proceeds of the sale went to pay down debt.

44Juniper_tree
Giu 21, 1:56pm

>43 folio_books:, I always thought they owned it and that’s why there was a sudden influx of cash into the accounts a few years back.

45Willoyd
Modificato: Giu 21, 5:50pm

>37 whytewolf1:

Ah, so I did misunderstand you: my timescale was rather longer than you were referring to. Thank you for all that detail. I'm still rather bemused at the move away from the membership model. But then that, along with the hefty price rises and the move away from the everyman ethic, effectively led to my virtually stopping buying new, full price books direct from FS.

>41 TheEconomist:
Incidentally, why are people talking about FS sales as if they were a thing of the past? I agree that the sale earlier this year was a slight disappointment, but the 2020 sales were pretty good, IMHO, and as far as I am aware we are expecting there to be a sale later this summer.
Have to say that I've found some of recent sales rather better than average - maybe not the slashing discounts, but certainly enough of interest. I think, though, that they do seem to have completed a fairly hefty clear out, and am not sure how things will pan out.

46TheEconomist
Giu 21, 5:59pm

>44 Juniper_tree: " I always thought they owned it and that’s why there was a sudden influx of cash into the accounts a few years back."

My recollection is that the society did own it, and did sell it, but that (a substantial proportion of) the proceeds of the sale were then paid out to the directors of the business as a dividend. The upshot is, I think, that FS has gone from paying no rent to paying rent, and that is why the business model has had to change.

47U_238
Giu 21, 9:40pm

>38 warehouseisbare: Clearly you feel very passionately about this, but you shouldn't presume anything about me. In addition, nothing about what I said speaks to "affordability," which means very many different things to different people. I was simply drawing inferences from the facts as they are.

48santiamen
Giu 22, 9:04am

Personally, I’d appreciate it if FS could create a new version of standard editions at a lower price (= stop with the quiet, constant increase) for people who would like to have smyth-sewn hardbacks in English but don’t necessarily care about owning luxurious items and getting something special above that level. Those could be illustration-free, slipcase-free, introduction-free or whatever would help the prices to stay closer to what they seemed to have been even recently.

In my country (Czech Rep.) and a lot of other European countries, smyth-sewn hardbacks are the norm, not the exception. Children’s books also have illustrations on top of that. Yet the price tends to be closer to £10. Even taking into account the differences in markets, I doubt it would take 5-10 times that to print a simple smyth-sewn hardback without any illustrations, translation, slipcase etc. for the English-speaking readership.

The sad part for me is that I can buy all these books cheaply but they will be translations. Since I speak English, my only real desire is to own books I like in their original language in a format that won’t fall apart within a few years. Unfortunately, the reality of the English market, which was one of the cultural shocks I experienced after having moved to the UK, is that paperbacks seem to be vastly preferred and most hardbacks are fake (glued), which makes them about as sturdy as the paperbacks except they cost more.

Obviously, FS creates beautiful books and every detail that goes into the production is thought out well. But I was happy to discover them mainly because it meant there was at least one publisher that cares about the basic quality. So it’d be great if “standard” edition really was just the most basic print without any special effects, simply so there are alternatives to the otherwise crappy market. At this rate, if the prices keep creeping up, buying a “standard edition” will really be equivalent to getting a limited edition of their favourite book for most people.

49whytewolf1
Giu 22, 9:10am

"Personally, I’d appreciate it if FS could create a new version of standard editions at a lower price (= stop with the quiet, constant increase) for people who would like to have smyth-sewn hardbacks in English but don’t necessarily care about owning luxurious items and getting something special above that level. Those could be illustration-free, slipcase-free, introduction-free or whatever would help the prices to stay closer to what they seemed to have been even recently."

But there are already publishers that do this and that are likely to fit your needs:

Library of America
Everyman's Library
Modern Library

50santiamen
Giu 22, 9:53am

>49 whytewolf1:
Don’t those all focus mainly on classics?

51Jayked
Giu 22, 12:34pm

Yes, it's extremely depressing to buy a new work that's likely to become a classic, and likely to begin disintegrating physically in ten years. You can usually get the North American equivalent edition from say Book Depository, and get better paper at least, and possibly sewn.
You can still buy decent productions in the UK, but rarely printed there unless by small specialty publishers. I've just waded through Chips Channon's Diaries, by a Penguin subsidiary, over 1000 pages, on decent paper and miraculously free from sag. It was bound and printed in Latvia, by a multinational company put together by a Scandinavian. British publishing is dominated by CPI Group, a multinational whose aim seems to be to dominate the market as cheaply as possible.

52abysswalker
Giu 22, 2:07pm

>49 whytewolf1: I find Everyman’s Library and Library of America reliable in terms of construction, but I think many Modern Library hardcover releases are glued. Not sure exactly how common that is, but it’s definitely a risk unless they have changed their construction standards.

53RRCBS
Giu 22, 2:23pm

>52 abysswalker: Agreed. I think I actually looked into this at one point and found that they are glued.

54whytewolf1
Giu 22, 3:48pm

>52 abysswalker: >53 RRCBS: Thanks, was not aware of that. I don't actually own any, though I've perused them at stores. I shouldn't have assumed.

>50 santiamen: They do, mostly, but it also depends on what you mean by "classics." Folio doesn't publish much at all that isn't at least 30-50 years old. Just a few here and there. I'm more familiar with LOA than Everyman, but LOA has a large selection of 20th-century literature, even some books published into the 70s. But of course, as the name would suggest, LOA only publishes books by American authors (or authors whose works were first published in America). I also didn't mean to imply either was a perfect substitute for Folio, but then again, Folio's catalog at any given moment isn't really that vast, in any case.

55SF-72
Giu 23, 11:53am

>50 santiamen:

They have a wider range than that, with science fiction, fantasy, or crime noir to mention some I noticed when I looked at their slipcased box sets. I'd also expected what one usually considers 'classics' and was surprised to find those.

56dyhtstriyk
Giu 23, 3:48pm

Yes, LOA books should fit the 'standard with quality' production for American authors. You can get more genre things like Chandler, Hammett, Bradbury, LeGuin, Butler and Jackson. My only criticism is that paper tends to be wafer-thin, almost like a Bible

57sdg_e
Lug 20, 11:46am

Just got the email that it's now back in stock: $195 USD/£120.

58sdg_e
Lug 20, 11:55am

I was curious to see how many they printed or have listed in the database using the add to cart method, but they have a purchase limit of 1 on the set, so hopefully there won't be a ton bought up by scalpers.

59Kainzow
Lug 20, 12:23pm

>58 sdg_e:
Oh they have a purchase limit now?
Great news!

Now I'm eagerly waiting for I Robot to come back. I was lucky enough to buy The Foundation trilogy when it was 50%. Yet to read it though....

60SF-72
Lug 20, 2:25pm

Nothing against a purchase limit, I have no sympathy whatsoever for re-sellers who buy up large numbers of books, in the end taking them way from people who then don't get a copy at all or have to buy a much higher price on the secondary markert. But I like to combine orders for a friend and myself (all the more with the forced express shipping we now have to pay for), others like to buy one for themselves and one as a gift. So a limit of 1 (for a non-limited edition in particular) isn't good news at all. It seems a bit over the top, to be honest. This doesn't affect me in this case - I bought the previous edition - but I really hope this won't become the norm.

61Kainzow
Lug 20, 3:55pm

>60 SF-72:
Hmm, maybe 2 would do.

As much as I understand what you're saying, it also makes sense for the Folio Society to do so. Take Lego sets for example, had there not been limits, they would have flown off the shelves in no time.

When you look at the prices of certain still-sealed Folio books on the secondhand market, and how quickly they appeared, it tells you that there are a lot of scalpers out there. And yes, some will say they're not doing anything bad and it is within their rights to buy low and sell high, but then Folio has as much right to restrict the number of books somebody can buy.

Unfortunately, scalping seems to have become a trend to make quick bucks. See how many people out there who have managed to get their hands on a PS5 without spending a fortune.

62Inceptic
Modificato: Lug 20, 5:11pm

I welcome the purchase limit and hope it becomes the norm for all their books going forward. Time for some checks and balances to this unhealthy society we live in.

63_WishIReadMore
Lug 20, 5:44pm

The limit is a bit of a double-edged sword, especially for those who don’t live in the UK, where shipping is very inexpensive.

64adriano77
Lug 20, 6:33pm

>58 sdg_e:

Definitely glad to hear of purchase limits being introduced by FS.

65SDB2012
Lug 20, 7:38pm

How is the Foundation Trilogy to read as an adult? I haven't read any Asimov since I was a young teen.

66trentsteel
Lug 20, 8:46pm

>65 SDB2012: just read book 1 for the first time. I'm mid 30s, and I enjoyed it...much more so than book of the new sun which I am half way through and needed to take a break for some other book.
Fwiw, I bought the BN faux leatherbound, which has no illustrations, but the end pages are really cool and font size is good sized too.

67jsg1976
Lug 20, 9:51pm

>65 SDB2012: I read it last year as an adult and thought it was great.

68HarpsichordKnight
Lug 21, 12:21am

Read it as an adult, and it's brilliant. That said, you have to be on board with the style: like several other SF writers, many characters are simply vehicles for his wonderful ideas, rather than intricately drawn studies.

120 pounds...my lament at not buying it in the sale continues.

69Charon49
Lug 21, 2:31am

The price tag has seen big increase but still better than the second hand market.

70ultrarightist
Lug 21, 9:55am

I wonder where the reprint is printed...

71Charon49
Lug 21, 9:59am

Folio said it was printed in Italy.

72Willoyd
Lug 21, 6:40pm

>56 dyhtstriyk:
Yes, LOA books should fit the 'standard with quality' production for American authors. You can get more genre things like Chandler, Hammett, Bradbury, LeGuin, Butler and Jackson.

Yes, it's a pity there's not a British or European equivalent. LOA has been a godsend as FS new prices have climbed out of reach.

73behemoththecat
Lug 22, 4:46am

>71 Charon49: confirmed by someone on FB as Italy.

74antinous_in_london
Lug 24, 8:39pm

Very savvy of Folio to get this reprint out just before the Foundation tv series starts on Apple TV in September - I’m sure they must be expecting a bump from the series.