New Release: The Book of the New Sun - SE

The Book of the New Sun on the Folio website. Two Volume Standard Edition £125

Nice! I have the LE (one of the only LEs I own), but happy since I know a lot of people were waiting for a SE. it looks pretty nice.

>2 RRCBS: I was one of them, the LE was out of my price range lovely as it was. This is also an attractive edition so I will probably be purchasing it later in the year.

I wonder what impact this will have on secondary LE prices on eBay. I'm tempted to sell my (still unread) LE and buy this instead.

Interesting that they’ve released this off schedule, I guess they want to reduce rollercoaster revenues a bit.

How many volumes were the LE?

>5 U_238: Four volumes. They have compressed it to two volumes.

>4 LondonLawyer: Your LE might hold a lot of value because of Gene Wolfe's signature. The later you sell it the better it might be.

Definite purchase.

I'm tempted to downgrade to this. I always felt the original was only a LE because the signatures rather than the production qualities you'd associate with a traditional Folio limited edition like leather or hand marbled paper and I'm personally not all that bothered about Gene's signature. Last I heard Centipede are still going ahead with their republication of Book of the New Sun so I might wait until they release it and see what their artwork is like, not to mention it'll probably be the best time to resell the Folio LE if I do decide to off load it.

Very similar to the original I have to say, too similar most likely, since it originated form a LE. Happy for those that had their wish come true - FS will make a lot of money on this, wonder what the print run is, a sell out either way.

When I saw the FS email title, "The most anticipated book of the year?", I thought "what new marketing hell is this now?". Best news I've heard in a while :) This will be my first book purchase of 2021.

Edit:
I have to say the books are relatively good value as well. Considering a single book with similar production values goes for 75GBP.

This is amazing! I am most definitely going to get me a copy! Very excited!

Never read it, but will give it a go. A little frustrating that it isn’t released with the Spring catalogue, I don’t want to pay twice for P&P!

It looks nice and not as expensive as I thought. Out of curiosity, do people recommend this book? How does it compare with out science fiction books Folio has passed? To be honest I hated the third book of the Farseer trilogy and American Gods was just mediocre so just wondering from people who like science fiction if this book would be worth it and how it compares.

>11 bacchus.: The price does seem relatively good and its a complete set. Cheaper than a single Folio Game of Thrones book, which while I am a fan of the series cannot justify to myself buying any of them based on the price.

I would probably downgrade if I could easily sell my LE for the original price I paid tbh.

Loved the books though and happy to have a set!

Sounds like there could be a glut of LEs on the market!

Any idea when the spring collection is getting released? I was expecting the teaser image today.

>17 Willoyd: maybe! Personally I would be too lazy to actually sell and too worried about incorrectly describing any minute flaws! Either way, lovely set. And actually impressed that they kept the two colour text for the SE. It really is a nice touch.

>16 RRCBS:
Sent you a message!

>16 RRCBS: Or sell the set for the 3k or whatever ridiculous price and use that money to go on a nice vacation once Covid ends! Haha with your post I wonder how many private messages you will receive now.

>14 Joshbooks1: Gene Wolfe is one of the few sci-fi/fantasy authors who is a master prose stylist as well as being imaginative and exciting. So that you can place my preferences, offhand I’d include Jack Vance, Ursula K. Le Guin, and M. John Harrison in such a list as well.

>21 Joshbooks1: maybe not...I’m in Canada! I don’t know, I honestly don’t judge those who sell for a lot, just not my thing. For one, I would worry about issues.

So happy to have a chance to order this for my collection. I picked this up immediately—I can live without the signatures if it means getting a copy at this price.

>22 abysswalker: I agree his prose are lovely. For a Sci-fi/Fantasy choice I would love to see Jack Vance get the Folio treatment.

Is the only difference between the SE and LE the 2-volumes vs. 4-volumes, respectively? I'm surprised and pleased that they retained the 2-color text and the decorative capitals in color. For those who own the LE, does there appear to be any difference in the capitals between it and the pictures shown of the SE? As others have mentioned, the price seems reasonable, too. I'm pulling the trigger on this one.

>26 ultrarightist: I think another difference is that the SE has only two double-page spreads as opposed to having all four colour illustrations span two pages. It also states being bound in 'cloth' as opposed to buckram specifically.

Absolutely beautiful, I've been waiting for this for a year - definite buy!

The capital letters and the pictures appear to be the same for the SE and LE. The differences I've noted are the SE has paper sides and is quarter bound in cloth while the LE is 3/4 bound in buckram with one cloth side, the SE has only the top colored black while LE has all three sides colored black, and the SE has a paper slipcase while LE is a cloth slipcase.

It'll be interesting to see the paper thickness between the two editions and where the SE is being printed.

These look very handsome, with no marked downgrade in design from the limited edition; they appear to have kept all the illustrations, the same striking board designs and even the attractive red capitals opening each chapter. I believe and hope this will sell well for FS. It'll be interesting to see where this edition is printed; if it's any country that respects basic human rights I'm going to feel sorely tempted.

(P.S. What a marked contrast to the zealous downgrade executed for Sharp's Tiger for which Folio not only dropped two illustrations from the limited 'deluxe' edition but went so far as to print three of the remaining paltry four images in black & white instead of colour for economy class readers.)

$195 US is still a good bit of money for a retired guy, but I feel myself getting roped into this one. It looks terrific and a browse through the old thread found almost (but not quite) universal praise for the story/writing, setting aside the production value. My local library has a copy of this, and I'm going to read a bit of it to see if it's something I really want.

I too would prefer to see what will be offered in the spring release, to avoid multiple postage charges.

This is why I'm not buying any more Folio Society LE's, what is the purpose when everything turns into a standard edition. I'm expecting Madame Bovary will be next when it sells out. I'll just wait until every LE goes standard and save my money for other books. I much rather they go from standard to LE than Limited edition to standard. At least you can decide if you want to invest, for example, The Three Musketeers LE. I wouldn't buy this LE because it's too close to the standard edition and I'm fine with purchasing the standard.

I think this edition is a good value, better than spending hundreds of dollars and $50 shipping.

>27 foldout_chair: It appears their description on the website conflicts with the new video on the same page. According to the video there are 8 color illustrations including 4 double-page spreads and 12 B&W illustrations. It'll be interesting to see which one is correct. I hope it's the video.

>27 foldout_chair: I think another difference is that the SE has only two double-page spreads as opposed to having all four colour illustrations span two pages

According to the LE brochure, each volume had a color frontispiece, a color double-page illustration, and three b&w plates. So the total of 4 double-page color illustrations, 4 single-page color illustrations, 12 b&w illustrations. The SE has 2 double-page color illustrations, 2 single-page color illustrations, 12 b&w. So 4 illustrations less.

It also states being bound in 'cloth' as opposed to buckram specifically.
The LE was 3/4 buckram with cloth front boards, the SE is quarter cloth with paper sides.

ETA: >33 skubrick2899: Interesting. So there is a possibility it has exactly the same number of illustrations in exactly the same format as the LE

>34 elladan0891: "According to the LE brochure, each volume had a color frontispiece, a color double-page illustration, and three b&w plates. So the total of 4 double-page color illustrations, 4 single-page color illustrations, 12 b&w illustrations."

4 single-page color illustrations = the 4 color frontispieces?

>35 ultrarightist: Right.

>34 elladan0891: Also odd is that the email they sent out for this edition states:

"Artist Sam Weber spent a year working on the original illustrations and all 16 are included in this spectacular two volume set, as well as his beautifully accomplished binding designs."

They fudged the numbers somewhere. I wonder if this only includes 16 rather than 20, which is what the LE included. This would make sense given the information provided thus far. We'll soon find out.

From my LE copy, details of the printing and binding, for those curious:

Typeset at the Folio Society in Jenson with Priori Serif as display, printed on Abbey Pure Rough paper at L.E.G.O. S.P.A., Vicenza, Italy, and bound by them in three-quarter blocked buckram with a cloth front board printed with a design by the artist.

I am glad Folio released a standard edition because these stories deserve more attention, but the LE is one of my favorite Folio productions I have come across, so I have no regrets. From my perspective it is pretty much an ideal format for these books. If I could wave a magic wand I would upgrade the paper, but even that is a grade above most of what Folio is releasing now, and not displeasing.

Well, that's an order that I wasn't expecting to place quite yet. Should arrive tomorrow with American Gods and Anansi Boys.

Hello everyone, I’m a new collector of Folio Society editions and I have been lurking on these threads for a while. They are extremely helpful and this is my first ever post here.

I couldn’t resist and placed an order for the standard edition of the set immediately today but just wanted to ask if anyone knows what’s the country of origin for this new standard edition? Thanks in advance!

Couldn't hold out and bought a copy. Will be interesting to see non-advertised changes, if any, like the paper used which I suspect to be the case and whether, like the Dune LE, the images may have been retouched with a different hue.

>21 Joshbooks1: I did that very thing and didn't regret it for a second.

Really looking forward to picking this up when the rest of the spring catalogue is released.

>40 Utkrisht:

Hello and welcome to FSD. I hope you enjoy your time here. I would urge you, if you haven't done so already, to delve deeply into the topic that's pinned to the top of the opening screen. The wiki can tell you just about everything you need to know about the Folio Society, its books and FSD. The complete list of Folio Society books does what it says. Anything else, feel free to ask.

>13 DMulvee:

'I don’t want to pay twice for P&P!'

You obviously don't work for Folio's marketing dept. ;-)

>41 wongie: Paper - quite possible, retouching with a different hue - I bet not. The purpose of Dune retouching was to match the sandy desert theme of the new cover (which, in my view, was a huge step down, not up - they went from striking to unimaginative and expected).

>14 Joshbooks1:

'Out of curiosity, do people recommend this book?'

Tempted to link to that moment from 'When Harry met Sally' but that might be slightly over the top (and showing my age). But it was close to my real reaction when I first encountered this series. This guy is a poet.

It's good.

I love my LE and will never part with it (okay, until I need to install that stairlift thing). If you don't have it, buy this.

That's uh-expensive meatbaaall. Still think the binding and color scheme would make more sense for 'Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.' Ignoring the cost difference, CP Book of the New Sun still hands down winner to me, much as I admire Sam Weber.

>43 folio_books:

Thank you! And yes, I’m looking forward to being here. I am going through the Wiki and sometimes can’t help but wish that I was born a little earlier because some older Folio Society books are truly beautiful!

And maybe, somewhere in between, I could also feel my wallet tremble in my pocket just a little bit.

>14 Joshbooks1: Gene Wolfe was among the greatest writers of the last century (not just in speculative fiction) and The Book of the New Sun is arguably his magnum opus. You can read this book over and over and constantly be discovering new things. The closest thing I can compare it to for complexity is probably Nabokov's Pale Fire.

>14 Joshbooks1:

It's definitely worthwhile, but the general consensus among its fans is that it requires multiple reads to even comprehend the depths of its complexities (although there's enough pleasures from the first read.)

There are multiple books, websites, and podcasts providing theories to the going-ons of the series.

>48 Utkrisht: sometimes can’t help but wish that I was born a little earlier because some older Folio Society books are truly beautiful!

The downside is if you were born that early you would be at least my age now. When I first joined Folio I was 22.

>14 Joshbooks1:

Definitely a recommended buy, IMO. It's such an interesting and unusual subversion of the genre, as cliched as that sounds. I went into it fairly blind, somewhat expecting one thing, but got something else entirely. Was a very cool moment when I realized what it was! I would even have purchased the limited edition, had I read it at the time, but held off until doing so. Sold out by the time, etc. So I'm grabbing this SE almost without hesitation - just waiting on CS to let me know where it's printed.

>52 adriano77:

I was in your situation as well and agree on every count. Hard to justify the LE without having read the books. But I didn't hesitate this time now that I have read them. And I'll be ok with the printing country either way. I was pleasantly surprised by the SE Doctor Zhivago and don't regret that purchase one bit despite where it was printed (And I have been disappointed with the quality of other books from the same country). I can't pass up on this because I've wanted it more than any other publication in the last two years.

>52 adriano77: "waiting on CS to let me know where it's printed"

Please let us know when you find out.

Immediate order as I’ve been eagerly awaiting this since I came to folio just a month after the LE was released and sold out and very happy with very little downgrades in the production.

>30 cronshaw:

Agreed it seems almost as if the production deductions are coming from two different heads as the sharpe edition was truly a huge downgrade. My only guess is that Sam Weber requested to do this book and it’s a passion project of his and he would be upset if they didn’t include all of the art he spent so much effort on and Folio probably want to keep him happy as he seems to be a sure thing for past editions popularity.

For those of you who missed out on the LE, there is a copy available on Abebooks for the modest price of $18,540.75

>56 ultrarightist: Really modest for Bill Gates, Elon Musk and the likes. ;-)

This seems great value compared to the LE, less than a third of the price.

It really seems like those of us who bought the LE were paying for the 3 signatures.

I would prefer to have four individual volumes, but as that’s not a financial possibility I’m very thankful for the opportunity to own it this way.

>51 folio_books: I’m 25 and just starting out. Maybe if I’m lucky I’ll end up having a collection as enviable as yours! There are upsides too :)

>59 Mr.Fox: I felt the same way initially plus I thought that they shortened the name to Shadow & Claw, Sword & Citadel which I disliked.

I did look around and noticed that some paperbacks also follow the same format (SF Masterworks and other Gollancz editions) so it’s not unique to Folio. Maybe it will grow on me.

On the positive side, the dots signifying the order are still there next to the titles on the spine.

My only worry is that the paper boards won’t hold up that well but they probably couldn’t make the binding cloth as it would dent the exclusivity of the cloth bound LEs.

>58 Uppernorwood: That seems to be Folio's current direction, unfortunately. You pay for signatures rather than for quality of materials or design these days.

I quite like the design of this set (and the LE) by Sam Weber, but stuff like the recent Musketeers LE is just garish in terms of design. They've clearly either (a) begun to take inspiration from Easton Press, or (b) no longer have anybody on staff who is capable of more restrained designs. (This is not a knock on the artist of that LE, whose illustrations are beautiful.)

>61 Utkrisht: The LEs are actually buckram, which, while technically cloth, is much longer-lasting. In my experience paper boards are much longer-lasting than unstiffened cloth, which tends to soil and tear quite easily over the years.

>62 -Ophidian-: Yes, I remember the LE being three-quarter buckram plus a cloth for the front cover design.

I previously bought the John Tenniel illustrated Alice in Wonderland & Through The Looking Glass which had a similar quarter cloth spine and paper boards but I noticed some slivers of paper coming out after taking it off the shelf a couple of times. But that book was made in China. I’m hoping this one is much better and what you said about paper boards holds true!

Also, as an aside. I’m still confused about the number of illustrations on this standard edition. The video says 20 but the production details state 16. I’m guessing it’s 4 per book instead of the 5 per book for the LE to maintain exclusivity. Probably the frontispiece has been removed since the editions have been combined. Although I hope the video is true but that’s just wishful thinking.

Any thoughts on the contents of the book? I have been reading varying reviews online. Some love it and others hate it. Is the book worth reading? Like is it a tough read? Is it slow paced? Would love to hear some thoughts on the book.

Mine just arrived. Wrapper in a white, slightly transparent paper, rather than sealed in the usual plastic.

Printed on Yu Long Pure Paper at C&C Offset Printing Co. Ltd, China.

By my count there are 20 illustrations.

Given the significance of this title I once again look forward to the arduous detour of a 100 posts commenting on the ethics of printing in China.

I think when a limited edition gets printed as a standard edition there is a high chance it will be printed in China. That was the case with Doctor Zhivago and Moby Dick.

>66 wongie: I rather suspect that China has become the default for any high-volume (relatively speaking) runs or where there are expected to be multiple print runs. Certainly my J. R. R. Tolkien books from Folio were all printed in China in 2020.

I queried FS about the illustrations and they stated that the video is correct and the description (main text) is incorrect. There are 4 color illustrations in each volume, for a total of 8.

Also, unfortunately, it is printed in China, as someone noted above.

>65 JamesMcMinn: Thanks for the further information. I'm unsurprised Folio don't mention this on the website listing. It's a no-buy for me.

Cannot justify the expenditure for printed in China.

>65 JamesMcMinn:

Oof. Well, that's that then.

>66 wongie: Suddenly, I feel an urge to write to customer service and cancel my order. The country of origin was the single deciding factor against buying Doctor Zhivago standard edition.

Such a shame. This title could have set an amazing precedent for value if it would have been printed in Germany or Italy.

Out of curiosity where was the LE printed?

>66 wongie: and so it has begun...

But, to move back on-topic, I feel both intrigued and intimidated. Intrigued because everything I read about this book seems to suggest it is a deep and intellectually stimulating read, and it also looks like a great production. Intimidated because I generally do not like sci-fi/fantasy and am worried that embarking on a 1000 page sci-fi tome will be a recipe for frustration.

Is anyone able to speculate on whether this is a book for lovers of sci-fi, or more likely to be a comfortable gateway for readers who have typically steered clear of the genre?

>74 assemblyman: L.E.G.O. in Italy

One wonders whether we're almost at at tipping point where Folio could get away charging a premium on having something printed in Europe so they can advertise it as an selling point.

>65 JamesMcMinn: How does it look and feel?

>76 wongie: Thank you. Are they not charging a premium on that now anyway without advertising it?

Visually it looks very nice, although my copy is far from perfect. It doesn't feel as nice as the Dune SE (in my opinion), and the paper is very slightly more yellow. Dune has a bit more texture too.

I've taken some photos which I hope give an idea of the quality: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tbnkcbvnbpdo1lw/AABaTJREPP20W__zmRKu-w_oa?dl=0

>75 ubiquitousuk: Is anyone able to speculate on whether this is a book for lovers of sci-fi, or more likely to be a comfortable gateway for readers who have typically steered clear of the genre?

Maybe it depends how far from sci-fi your usual reading lies: I can only offer my own experience which is only dimly present in my mind. I generally check out new Folio LEs to some extent, and when this one came along I read a sample and was immediately moved by the quality of the writing - favourably moved, I'd been unfavourably moved so many times by other Folio offerings in the genre that I was close to giving up. Ordered the LE, justifying the purchase by reflecting that, the way it was selling, I would probably be able to get back the purchase price fairly readily if I wanted to: I had justified the Mort LE to myself in the same way. I began reading fairly soon, and I see I've a bookmark 120 pages into the first volume. I'm actually surprised to find I penetrated that far. So, I must just have drifted back to my customary engagements, Adelaide Champneys and Claude Houghton and H.M.Tomlinson and the rest. Sooner or later I'll begin the Wolfe again and see what happens. I'm fairly sure it won't for me be a gateway into the SF cosmos, but open as to whether I may eventually be very grateful to know this particular work.

>58 Uppernorwood: in addition to the buckram, there’s the difference between Abbey Wove Rough paper and Yu Long Pure paper.

>81 abysswalker: And that difference definitely favors the Abbey Wove

>79 JamesMcMinn: Thank you so much for sharing the pictures. From the pictures, the paper boards for the cover seem to be smooth/laminated. Can you please confirm if it’s so?

Also, how do you feel it compares to the standard edition of Doctor Zhivago?

>83 Utkrisht: The covers are a very smooth, yes. The most similar book in my collection in terms of board cover feel is The Elegant Universe if you happen to have that for reference.

I'm afraid I don't (yet) have a copy of Doctor Zhivago so I can't compare the two.

>79 JamesMcMinn: Good enough for me, just ordered. Thanks for the pictures (... and kudos on the matching carpet ;))

>84 JamesMcMinn: Thank you. The pictures are extremely helpful and I think I will not cancel my order. And based on the pictures, I agree with your comparison to Dune standard edition. I don’t have The Elegant Universe so I can’t compare to that.

I was kind of looking forward to doting on this set but the Chinese origin has dissuaded me. Oh well, best to buy Montaigne’s Essays later.

>80 terebinth: thanks. On the one hand, "I see I've a bookmark 120 pages into the first volume" doesn't sound too promising. But I did look at the first couple of pages in an eBook preview and found it quite absorbing.

To be clear, I don't have a per se thematic problem with sci-fi/fantasy (on the contrary). I'm just put-off by the fact that half of sci-fi seems to open with something like "Habblebob Smugglcheese climbed aboard the hyperdisc comfablator and placed his phase decombobulator under the seat..." (or, for fantasy, "Gragnor, high-warlock of Tednor, stood atop the battlements of Great Habnor...") New Sun doesn't seem to fall into that trap, but I know some highly-praised sci-fi does (I'm looking at you, P.K.D.), which has taught me to be cautious.

>87 ubiquitousuk: Have you thought about writing some sci-fi or fantasy yourself? You're off to to a good start in following the formulas. ;-)

>88 ultrarightist: I had started writing the greatest work the genre had ever seen, but then I left my manuscript on the 9:15 hyperdisc comfabulator to Great Habnor (it was in the phase decombobulator under my seat).

>87 ubiquitousuk: here is a brief review that captures some of the style (note: there are some pseudo spoilers in the linked article, though not in the excerpts I’ve copied below):

...
The clichés here are so overwhelming and obvious, that you might start wondering why so many literary stars have praised this work. Neil Gaiman has claimed he was even intimidated by Wolfe’s use of “science fiction to illuminate ideas and people and to stretch my mind in ways it had never been stretched before.” Ursula K. Le Guin called Wolfe "our Melville." and critic Michael Dirda ranked The Book of the New Sun as “the greatest fantasy novel written by an American."
...
Are genre audiences ready for this? My instinct is to deny it. Everything we are told about marketing popular culture suggests that there is no mainstream audience for a sci-fi epic of this sort. Yet The Book of the New Sun has found a sizable following and these readers are devoted to Wolfe’s epic. In one survey of readers, this tetralogy even finished in the top spot in a poll of all
time favorites.
...

— Source

I would add that The Book of the New Sun also reads well as a work in the mode of representational realism (taking into account the fantastical elements, of course). This isn’t a hard work to follow in the way that some “difficult” modernist works are (such as some works by Joyce or Pychon).

As a plus to all buyers of the series (LE & SE), having more copies out there make it much more likely that the FS will sell matching companion volumes; i.e. The Castle of the Otter and The Urth of the New Sun.

>78 assemblyman: Probably, though I suspect as time goes on and more books are given to Chinese printers as the norm Folio might at some stage be able to list "Printed in England, Germany or wherever" on the page as a bulletined selling point to squeeze even more money out of those who treat this as a big deal.

>75 ubiquitousuk: >87 ubiquitousuk: BotNS is definitely not your stereotypical hard sci fi like with that kind of technbabble so isn't reserved just for the sci fi reader's enjoyment. It rather leans more toward into the fantasy and even then while there are some tropes and archetypes that might ring familiar as mentioned in the review >90 abysswalker: quotes, like the sci fi side of things it doesn't veer into the elements you'd associate from contemporary fantasy genre either.

As an aside I actually find that the book is even listed or mentioned as sci fi is somewhat of a spoiler and rather detrimental to a first reading experience. For that reason I tend to recommend it only as fantasy and not mention it being sci fi at all.

I picked up the library copy of the first two books (both in one volume, as mentioned by Utkrisht above), and started reading a randomly chosen chapter in the middle of the book. I went to the middle to see how thick the lingo is (ubiquitousuk is quite right about a lot of SF). I read three chapters, and while there were names I didn't recognize, the wild lingo was quite minimal, and not a deterrent for me.

The writing was indeed very good. As for the storytelling, it flowed nicely but was certainly verbose, which I've noticed with Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, which I'm currently reading. I've thought on many occasions that Strange and Norrell needed an editor - it didn't really need to be a 1,000-page book. That said, my impression is that the verbosity serves a greater purpose in The Book of the New Sun. The pointless details in Strange and Norrell contrasted with what appeared to be simple long-windedness.

Mind you, this judgment is based on reading about 20 pages or so. I'm not usually a big science fiction reader, but have read a good amount in the last few years, often enabled on these boards. I expect I will buy this, despite my disappointment at the Chinese printing.

>79 JamesMcMinn:

I only started reading it to decide whether or not I should be the limited edition. It read more like fantasy than science fiction, with a good writing style and atmosphere, but I was so revolted by the theme of torture and descriptions thereof that I quit reading and didn't buy it. I won't now either. Others clearly aren't bothered by this, and the books might well turn in another direction, but I thought I'd mention it.

>94 SF-72: I was so revolted by the theme of torture and descriptions thereof that I quit reading and didn't buy it. I won't now either. Others clearly aren't bothered by this,

I was merrily reading along, not very far through the first book. when I encountered a graphic description of the torturer flaying a woman's leg. I put the book down and have not picked it up since. I'm way too squeamish for stuff like that.

To be fair, The Book of the New Sun has its own kind of technobabble, in that Wolfe uses rare and obscure (but actual!) English words to illustrate concepts for which there are no modern-day equivalents. To use a spoiler-free example from the first chapter, a man is compared to an 'arctother', which was a kind of gigantic prehistoric bear. In Severian's time, it likely represents a different animal altogether. If you already know what an 'arctother' is, you'll gain a bit further illumination into the term, but even if you DON'T know, you'll be able to surmise from the comparison (a dove and an arctother) that it is something rather large and rough.

The book is chock full of these obscure words that relate to as-yet-undiscovered flora, fauna, social stations, and the like, but they are always real, not invented words, and you do not need to know them beforehand to enjoy the book. Wolfe is very careful to make their meanings clear through context most of the time.

As for whether you'd like it if you don't like much science fiction, I'd say that if the idea of unfamiliar societies and customs displeases you, you might not like it. But it can be enjoyed as a story on multiple levels. It can be enjoyed as a science fiction story. It can be enjoyed as a fantasy story. It can be enjoyed as a medieval Christian allegory. And whichever way you read through it the first time, you'll be able to go back to it and get something different out of it with a different perspective. Yes, it's a deep and intellectually stimulating work, but it's not preachy. The first time through, it's fine to read it as a good old-fashioned adventure romp. If you want to delve deeper, you can do that too.

EDIT: Regarding the depiction of torture, the title of the first book is "The Shadow of the Torturer". It's a society with a lot of casual violence (much like ours once was and sometimes remains), but it's not gratuitous. More or less every detail DOES serve a purpose.

>93 coynedj: I'm inclined to agree that Strange & Norrell should have been better edited, particularly in the latter half of the book. On the other hand, Clarke was deliberately trying to imitate the mannered prose of Jane Austen at certain points, which explains at least some of the verbosity.

Ordered along with Something Wicked This Way Comes which was on my wishlist for a longtime.

>96 -Ophidian-: It seems like he uses some words that one can only find in the unabridged OED.

>98 ultrarightist:

And some that one can't: my set is constantly available four feet from my desk, but I checked it just now for "arctother" and there's nothing between Arctoid and Arcturus. May Wolfe's use of it have won it a spot in the online offering?

>99 terebinth: it's not in the online OED either, but I suspect that might be because it's the formal name for a species derived from the greek https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctotherium

>5 U_238: "Interesting that they’ve released this off schedule..."
>18 bookish_elf: "Any idea when the spring collection is getting released? I was expecting the teaser image today."

Hasn't the pattern for the last couple of years been that one or two expected-to-be-very-popular books (LE, sci-fi, fantasy title) are released just prior to the next collection's teasers? And the by the time the new collection is released, those early releases are officially included as part of the new collection?

We've now seen this and the Three Musketeers LE - I would interpret those as the teaser tremors before the collection's actual earthquake.

Bingo. In "The Castle of the Otter", a book ABOUT writing The Book of the New Sun, Wolfe avers that he very carefully checked every rare word with at least two distinct sources, sometimes in very obscure dictionaries, and that he believes they are all accurate but that he expects anyone trying to follow his tracks to have a hell of a time.

I know one such source is "Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary of Unusual, Obscure, and Preposterous Words", which is currently sitting on my shelf.

>82 ultrarightist: Hmm, I don't know that I agree—I only have one book with Yu Long Pure paper (Five Little Pigs by Agatha Christie) but the paper doesn't seem any worse than Abbey Wove—just different. My collection isn't nearly as impressive as those of some of the other folks here but I have FS books with Balmoral Book Wove, St Paul's Wove, Abbey Pure and, of course, the ubiquitous Abbey Wove paper and they all seem fairly similar and fairly nice (with Abbey Pure perhaps feeling a little thicker and nicer). As far as I can see, they're all nicer than the paper you get in most trade books and they're all not quite as nice as, say, the Magnani paper in my copy of the Limited Editions Club Diary of a Country Priest, or the paper used in the LEC Cellini autobiography. But after seeing Yu Long Pure paper in person I don't think it would put me off buying the book.

>75 ubiquitousuk: and >87 ubiquitousuk: Like others have pointed out, Gene Wolfe doesn't use technobabble the way other sci-fi books might but he cleverly uses his own set of older English terms and Latin and Greek words (or made up derivations of Latin and Greek words) to evoke a certain kind of strangeness and a specific feeling of time and place. The feel of the book wouldn't be possible without those terms just as Jane Eyre wouldn't feel like Jane Eyre without the gothic language (or you could pick any number of examples but I just read Jane Eyre recently). Really any book written before our time refers to technology, customs, and places that don't exist now and part of the pleasure of them (for me at least) is their evocation of a time that I've never experienced personally. Science fiction and fantasy try to do the same thing but just with times and places that have never actually existed. When it's done well it feels as organic as something like Jane Eyre (though even Jane Eyre seems like it was written with enough stylistic license to take the real time and place that it describes and bend it into something unique) and when it's done poorly it does end up feeling silly like the technobabble you tease about (although I love sci-fi and fantasy and have a soft spot for even the silly stuff). I think Gene Wolfe does it very very well and he creates a world that is wild and strange in all the best ways. I think many people who enjoy reading the classics at least partly for their descriptions of strange times and peoples could enjoy that part of Gene Wolfe's work.

>104 JedediahG: he even includes a faux “note on the translation” at the end of the first book: In rendering this book—originally composed in a tongue that has not yet achieved existence—...

I wonder if that is why NetGalley has an ARC available for request? https://www.netgalley.com/catalog/book/214737

I admit that I’m a bit clueless—what is the primary objection to books being printed in China? Quality control issues? Any specific examples of recent problems?

>107 Mr.Fox:
Political. C & C Offset, the company used by Folio has been in business in Hong Kong, and now in mainland China, for decades, and has won major awards for its work in the US and elsewhere. It prints many of the art books for Thames and Hudson to high standards, including some for the British Museum. Incidentally T and H ads no longer name the printer of their books, presumably to avoid misplaced complaints.

>105 abysswalker: Yes! I loved that so much. Gene Wolfe had a great sense of humor.

>108 Jayked: Thanks! That’s helpful.

>107 Mr.Fox:
1. Political, environmental, etc.
2. Paper. Yu Long Pure paper is smooth, lacks texture, and looks very ordinary. >103 JedediahG: is apparently fine with it, but there are many devotees who don't like it. Personally, I wouldn't buy any Chinese reprint just because of paper even if #1 weren't a consideration, and would always look for a pre-Chinese printing. To me it looks like paper I have sitting in my printer.

Any specific examples of recent problems?
Sure. Chinese Silmarillion printing quality is abysmal. Guild stamping of the binding is done poorly too. See below. To be fair, they can print well. I have a few other Chinese Folios which have no issues with print quality.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/1756#7087213

>111 elladan0891: I agre 100% with everything you wrote. In this case, there is no SE alternative (i.e. pre-Chinese printing, other than the LE), so I am going to purchase it.

>107 Mr.Fox: I have two FS books (out of several hundred) that have quality issues. One was printed in China, the other printed in Cornwall.

The issues with the one printed in China, the latest Christie mystery, are really apparent as it is part of a series and earlier books were printed in other countries.

Besides Tolkein, I seem to remember the Ayn Rand set had issues and was printed in China, but I may be mistaken (and don't own it).

Given how many books are being printed in China now, it seems like most do not have quality issues (assuming the paper is not a problem for you). As always, this board is a great resource when it comes to being alerted to quality issues, regardless of the printer's location.

I purchased Sharpe’s Tiger which was printed in China and it had noticeable a dime sized oil/tacky stain on the front of the cloth. Poor quality control. Plus I prefer my luxury books not be printed in a country that mass produces practically everything for everyone on Earth. I prefer to support printers in other countries. It’s just my opinion but it does matter a lot to me. Plus, I agree the paper isn’t as good.

>114 warehouseisbare: "Plus I prefer my luxury books not be printed in a country that mass produces practically everything for everyone on Earth. I prefer to support printers in other countries. It’s just my opinion but it does matter a lot to me."

I share your well placed complaint.

>90 abysswalker:

The author of that article should be pleased. There's a copy of Peter Wolfe's 'Shadows of the New Sun' for just $1200 on Amazon, half of the article writer's quoted price.

>114 warehouseisbare:
>115 ultrarightist:

The counterpoint is that no one in the West would be willing to accept that (lowered) standard of living which might support any more printing (or manufacturing) than is currently being done in the West.

Sorry for derailing but I felt like stating the obvious; Androids, Apples, TVs and pretty much every component inside one's laptop/desktop are most likely produced in China. I understand the argument on quality control but as far as political/environmental concerns go one must be willing to make way more "sacrifices" than your occasional FS book to honestly boycott Chinese products.

So I have a general question that hopefully some can enlighten me with their thoughts. Though I know there are many people out there that do ... I have never been one to care about another human beings signature. Be it on a book or a baseball or even if it's randy jacksons signature on a samurai sword (I will now learn who on this forum I connect with when someone points out what movie that references) ... :p

Please help me understand what makes a signature so valuable that someone would pay $18k for this book (as someone above pointed out it is on abebooks for that). Now I know no one has actually pushed the buy button ... and I'm sure someone in the ... 'rich' ... 'no money worries' category would probably pay this if they really wanted it and it was the only one available at the moment ...

But even baseball cards signed by long gone hall of famers ... why does someone wanna pay 100's of thousands of dollars?

Again ... I know I am just not that person ... I love 'LOVE' reading beautiful books ... and will often pay a foolish premium for something that feels great in the hands ... and is visually stimulating. I get paying absurd amounts for higher quality production items ... BUT ... a signature?

end scene!

Sorry for the rant.

Back to topic ... I did pick up the LE version of this when it was offered ... and I absolutely love it! I would have however loved to have paid a few hundred dollars less for the same 4 book format without a signature.

If I had not picked up that LE ... I would have definitely without hesitation picked up this two book version. But the 4 book is definitely nicer ... if only for the form factor/weight when holding and reading.

just my two cents

>95 folio_books:

That's where I stopped, too.

I think the analogy with an iPhone isn’t fair. To make an iPhone you need chips which come from Taiwan and if Apple wanted to make them elsewhere would have similar shipping costs (from an environmental point of view, final product from China or shipping chips from Taiwan).
The FS is an English company. They could make the books in England, or Europe. Instead they chose a country further away to maximise profits. I would rather pay extra for a luxury good (that I don’t need) if I could believe that the brand cared about this.

>121 DMulvee: I have to agree with the other poster. It's a completely fair analogy. Apple has profit margins of something like 50%. They could absolutely afford to make iPhones and all their components in the US and still turn an enormously enviable profit if they wanted to, but they actually do choose not to in order to maximize profits. People elsewhere have revealed that FS's financials are actually fairly precarious, and I guarantee they have profit margins nowhere near 50%, So, I would suggest that having some of their products printed in China is probably more of an actual necessity for the health of the bottom line than something motivated by greed. Of course, we all do as we wish, but this stand against Chinese-printed Folio books seems entirely pointless to me.

>122 whytewolf1: Taiwan semiconductor makes the microchips for Apple. The only other option was Intel. However late last year Intel announced it was outsourcing production to Taiwan semiconductor.
Apple is trying to build its own chips, but is not there at the moment. There are a few smaller manufacturers but they do not have the ability to make the number of chips that Apple needs, nor the manufacturing expertise. Intel was working on a 7nm (nano metre) manufacturing process, but had to push this back to late 2022 or early 2023, but last year Taiwan semiconductor rolled out 5nm products for Apple. There is no other option

>122 whytewolf1: I think comparing folios to mass market consumer electronics is a false analogy. People buy phones for their functionality and user experience, but they know that in a few years the phone will be history. People buy Folios largely because they are perceived to be higher quality and more durable than their mass market hardback and paperback counterparts, and I would assume regard them as items that might be used for the rest of their lives (and beyond!). Therefore if FS do anything that reduces the quality of their wares (even if only perceived) it could damage their brand and they risk becoming trapped in a race to the bottom.

I only own two Chinese folios, Five Children and It and The Locked Room Mysteries. Unfortunately both have issues: Five Children has a thin and brittle spine which was slightly creased on arrival; while the binding on the Locked Room books seems pretty good, there is an odd variation in paper between volumes, even though they're all listed as having 'Napura Yuta'. That's just my experience. Judging by the number of complaints on the fb group re scuffing and scratching on The Book of the New Sun, it appears there might be significant quality issues here too.

I would add that FS are clearly aware that country of manufacture plays a part in their brand. The last title I'm aware of in which they highlighted it in the marketing was the Herodotus LE: printed and bound in the UK.

>124 Levin40: You might have missed the original post (>118 bacchus.:). The analogy was clearly confined to environmental/political concerns hinted throughout the thread - not around quality. We don't necessarily need to disagree on your points to see my point.

Looks like an excellent edition, definitely adding it to my wishlist. I remember being curious on the LE, but not knowing enough about the series to bite at that price.

For Gene Wolfe fans, would you say this is the ideal entry point into his work? Or is there anything you'd recommend first?

>126 HarpsichordKnight: You could try The Fifth Head of Cerberus as a much shorter introduction to his style of writing and thinking. Apparently his short stories are excellent too, though I haven't read any.

>126 HarpsichordKnight: You could try the Latro books, about a Roman solider whose head injury has robbed him of short term memory but enabled him to be aware of supernatural presences (or has it?). The treatment of place names in this series is an endless delight. These would make a superb and I would imagine popular Folio edition.

>118 bacchus.: I think it's a good point. If the objections to books printed in China have to do with the many ugly practices that go on there, it would be disingenuous to make a stand here, and only here. To boycott goods from China would require a lot more inconvenience, and money, than forgoing the occasional luxury book purchase.

>119 thisGuy33: I agree mostly about signatures, especially for authors. However, I’ve come to appreciate the signatures of craftspeople involved in the manufacture of a book. Printer, binder, illustrator, etc. It’s like a personal stamp of approval that the object was made to standard.

>130 abysswalker: Interesting point!

>124 Levin40: "Judging by the number of complaints on the fb group re scuffing and scratching on The Book of the New Sun, it appears there might be significant quality issues here too."

There are already complaints about the new standard edition?

>129 U_238:

Perfectly viable and respectable, surely, to decide against, as they say, making the perfect the enemy of the good, and to boycott Chinese products that can be avoided while leaving one's way of life broadly intact, such as Folio Society books printed there, while continuing to buy what have come to be necessities for modern living from China in fields where there's almost no available alternative.

I don't myself go even that far, I've bought ever so few standard Folio books lately but it's not because of where some of them are printed.

Got my copy earlier today and have done some comparisons with the LE. Overall this is an excellent production in its own right.

First of all the exterior. LE on the left and SE on the right for exterior shots (though the interior image shots of the artwork further down are out of order, sorry). I personally prefer untreated cloth of this SE even though it might not be as durable as buckram. One reason, as you can see is that the untreated cloth doesn't reflect as much light as buckram so creates a much more striking contrast with the red foiling making it pop out so much more when displayed on the shelf. On the flip side the paper boards are more glossy so it's a bit of a trade off there but I suspect most people store their books spines out anyway. The paper makes the yellow pop, almost fluorescent and the blue comes across much more vivid than the muted shade featured on the cloth of the LE. The only thing I thing I would have preferred is if they used the full titles on the spines.

Moving into the books the paper is smoother as is expected from Yu Long Pure and definitely not as textured as the LEs Abbey Pure Rough. While I much prefer textured paper I wouldn't say that Yu Long is necessarily bad in any way in itself. I pulled out another premium edition ie the 2017 Ulysses with Abbey Pure and they're almost identical to my finger tips. The printing is sharp as you can see, this is definitely not a Silmarillion.

From what I can see the black and white images are almost identical, side by side I think there's the slightest change in hue but it's not all that clear across the range of images. Some that contain colour do have much more evident changes in hue but it's not that drastic a change. I'm inclined to think this wasn't so much a purposeful touch up rather than simply the way the colour balance was set up on the printers C&C used.

If you don't already own a copy I wouldn't bother trying to save up for the LE unless you really want the signatures. The SE captures the essence of everything from the original LE production extremely well. The "downgrade" in materials doesn't really feel all that much of a downgrade given that the original was already feeling like a premium standard edition anyway and the changes in the SE just seem more a matter of taste rather than an all too obvious attempt to reduce cost. To reiterate, no quality issues over printing from what I can see from a cursory flip through of the pages or the binding (though given that these are thick volumes I'd expect inevitable sagging in the long run). Only issues I can see are the odd minor dent from packing on Folio's side. I think the only factor will come down to political/ethical reasons, in terms of production I think this was a home run for Folio.

Personally, it's not clear cut for me and I'm still deciding. Biggest gripe is the titles, the shortened names just really bug though I may end up tolerating it the more I look at it. I suspect in the end it'll come down to money and I'll end up getting rid of the LE.

>126 HarpsichordKnight: There are other places you could start, but this is his magnum opus. And the opening of the work is its own best introduction. What I mean by this is that the first few chapters are what sold me on Wolfe's work--beautifully elaborate prose, hints of symbolic meanings behind the literal meanings, and something going on behind the scenes that you can't quite name.

>134 wongie:

Great comparison! Weber's illustrations are fantastic... FS really tortured me with this SE decision-making.

>134 wongie: Thank you for the comparison analysis and photos. Much appreciated.

>134 wongie: Thanks for the review and LE/SE comparison. Your photos are excellent. This really clarifies things for me. I will definitely be getting it after seeing this.

I initially wasn't put off by concerns over Chinese sourcing, but in the last sale I received my first such book - Humphry Clinker. I knew instantly that it was, with paper, binding etc all being shinier, smoother than I expected. Smelt different too (now disappeared). It's nice enough, but I'm not in a hurry to repeat the experience compared to far more satisfying textured standards, and will include printing origins in my consideration in future.
I would guess choice of paper etc is FS decision?

>134 wongie: Thanks, this is super informative. Along with the very helpful comments on content above, I have been persuaded to "pull the trigger". My one wish would have been to stick with four volumes rather than two, but you can't have everything and I'll take a hacksaw to my SE before paying £2.5k for an LE...

>134 wongie:
Really helpful information. Thank you.

>139 Willoyd:
" I would guess choice of paper etc is FS decision?"
It certainly should be. One of the more irritating assumptions of the anti-Chinese lobby is that the printer-binder is responsible for every aspect they don't like. C and C owns several large factories, produces various products such as greetings cards, children's lit, catalogues, whatever, and it's absurd to suppose that all use the same grade and shade of paper. It's up to Folio to order what they want, to check what they've received, and to insist on changes if required. If they didn't like what they received and did nothing about it, then heads should roll.
All this kerfuffle about Chinese sourcing has gone on before in various industries, e.g. woodworking machinery, the manufacturing of which has moved almost entirely from Europe and the USA to China. One lesson learned from that was that you'd better have a person on site occasionally to check quality control. In the present case, however, the company has been performing so well for so many years that it hardly seems necessary.

>134 wongie: Very much appreciate your efforts with the review. It's very helpful. Thanks!

Oh, the internet. There is always the internet.

A list with definitions of obscure words from the book is below.

https://www.wordnik.com/lists/urth-of-the-new-sun

>134 wongie: >144 Forthwith: Two very helpful posts in short order! Thank you both.

>134 wongie: Thank you so much for the detailed analysis. I feel much better about my decision to buy it after all.

Just received my copy. Took only two days for expedited shipping to get from London to my home in New York. Pretty impressive considering Prime shipping from Amazon takes the same two days and their warehouse is in NJ. The books were well packaged and arrived without shipping damage. However, the cover of one book had a few small stray ink spots. Not a big deal. Overall, the production and artwork look great. (But I still have a tinge of regret for hesitating to buy the LE until it was too late.)

It’s disappointing for me that they’ve used Yu Long Pure paper - I vastly prefer textured paper like Abbey Wove. But wongie’s comparison above has persuaded me to buy it anyway - I’m looking forward to reading, and it’s better than paying £2000 for an LE! Thanks for the detailed comparison, it’s really helpful.

>127 Levin40:
>128 red_guy:
>135 JacobHolt:

Thanks for your posts about where to start with Gene Wolfe - really helpful and appreciated.

>66 wongie: I was asked to review my purchase of The Travels of Marco Polo, printed in China. I commented that the book appeared to be very well-produced although the boards did not lie quite flat outside of the slipcase. While it made sense to me that this particular book was printed in Chine, i further commented that I would never buy another Folio book printed there.

Seems that prices for the LE have skyrocketed lately.

Found a set that the seller was willing to sell for $2100 CDN. Is that too steep?

>19 RRCBS: There are still plennnnnty of Gene Wolfe signed books available for far less than the FS LE. I am contenting myself with my multiple other signed books by him lol.

>32 Comatoes: "I much rather they go from standard to LE than Limited edition to standard. At least you can decide if you want to invest, for example, The Three Musketeers LE. I wouldn't buy this LE because it's too close to the standard edition and I'm fine with purchasing the standard."

Funny - I prefer the other way around! It seems like more of a ripoff to me if they do the standard version first. I would pretty much never decide on the LE. But if the LE comes first, I can happily buy it and then not buy the standard and be fine with that.

>126 HarpsichordKnight: The first Gene Wolfe book I read is Latro in the Mist. I don't know if that's a better introduction to his work - it's about a man in ancient Roman times who loses his memory every night and writes down what happens on a scroll. You are reading it like his journal, basically, and it is unreliable narrator to the max. There are things that happen that Latro doesn't understand the significance of but that you do, since you can remember his journey from day to day and he cannot. Book of the New Sun might actually be easier to comprehend! The Latro books are my favorite of Gene Wolfe's though. I have read several Gene Wolfe short stories but haven't yet read any of his standalone novels.

If the FS mole is here: I would also like all three Latro books in FS versions, please and thank you. They would have broad appeal to scifi/fantasy fans who already like Gene Wolfe as well as to people who wouldn't touch sci-fi or traditional fantasy with a ten-foot pole but are fine with mythology.

>151 Roberto23: I vaguely remember and mind might do me tricks and probably do so, but I have read it to be gone for around $2800. Now I don`t tend to believe in everything before I see hard evidence - I ain`t that stupid ! But especially within the US market anything can happen.

$2100 CDN is steep for a book set limited to 750, but with these collectible facebook groups and other groups one can only do one thing, which is to throw the rules out the window. It really is world turned upside down. A limitation of 750 is not so much when demand is there - and it is, still and will be, and growing for a while more it is social networking after all.

Patience might reward you, but you will be far from alone as there will be collectors, scalpers, flippers, saints and sinners looking for the same said object. Depends on how much you want it really. If a seller don`t need to sell - it will be more expensive. If he/she waits they will be rewarded, if you wait, the same. There are the same hyenas on every social network page most of them are very certain of the "market", but luck might strike you to find a sensible character with time.

As you know `E-Bay show a copy sold in the US for US $2000 and your seller knows that too`

Good luck man !

>153 Pellias: - Just as an aside, the recently sold set on ebay went for $1400, though it's certainly possible the seller could have gotten the full asking price if they had let the listing go longer

>152 katielouise: Absolutely loved the shoutout to the FS mole.

My copy arrived today and I am fairly impressed with the quality. No sign of any quality control defects, the print is crisp and clear, and the paper is fine. Yes, it's whiter and slightly smoother than the normal fair. But is also feels a bit heavier and seems a bit more opaque than the ubiquitous Abbey Wove in many standard editions.

Otherwise, I agree with >134 wongie:.

I'm not sure how much I like the sheen to the cover boards, but that's a minor gripe.

>156 ubiquitousuk:
I'm not sure how much I like the sheen to the cover boards, but that's a minor gripe.
That was a characteristic of Humphry Clinker - especially when compared with the British printed Tom Jones, which was in a similar style and had the same illustrator.

>156 ubiquitousuk:

Mine arrived yesterday and I agree on all counts. No defects on the covers unless I squint and hold the books at an obtuse angle under a light. I'm not concerned in the least with that. Though, I feel like I have to be extra careful handling the books because the boards are more susceptible to marking given their sheen. Cloth boards would have worked much better and I would have gladly paid more for that upgrade. But I have no regrets with this purchase.

Mine arrived today. The interior is in great condition and the quality seems good. The exterior of one of the books and the slipcase though have weird deep dent/crease things in random places. I can see why people would be disappointed by this because I've never received a Folio book with such an obvious defect before.

>159 katielouise: The quality of the books have declined over time. I have received books with dead mosquitoes crushed inside, torn paper (70 pages of a Thomas Hardy book were literally torn when it arrived), and FS never bothered to replace it. They don't even reply to mails about quality issues any longer. All they care about is $$$ and they use the fact that they can hide behind the screen to their advantage.

>160 bookish_elf: I’m very sceptical about Folio’s recent choices regarding printing in China and the declining quality control. The one positive is that I’ve emailed them every time I’ve had an issue, and they’ve replied by the next day with free replacements arriving a day or two later. Are you sure you have the right email address for them?

I’m surprised to hear that, since my experience has been so different. Ultimately, I have never had a customer service message go unresolved, and have always had damaged books replaced with no questions asked. It can take a few days sometimes, but they’ve always made things right for me.

>160 bookish_elf: Was the mosquito book Jurassic Park

>160 bookish_elf: that’s odd because it seems like every person on the folio Facebook group that ever has a quality problem are always posting about their replacements I’ve never heard of them refusing one.

>161 Yohannas:
>162 Mr.Fox:
>164 Charon49:

I have bought close to 200 books from FS in the span of 3 years. From last year, their customer service has really declined. I have emailed them 4 times for the past month and a half and they have just been ignoring my emails. The email is correct, maybe they selectively reply to emails.

>163 Soup811: Lol. It was SPQR. Maybe from the Roman time. ;-)

I wish they had better quality control. It looks to me that these days they focus more on design and less on the quality of books.

>165 bookish_elf: Sadly I have to agree. Quality has declined, new productions are questionable, and prices have increased. I have some disposable income but for most books Folio now produce I do not think many are worth $80-100 per title. I would rather get a quality beautiful production and spend more than a decent regular book which Folio now charges. Of course, if titles change I will go back to buying at retail price from Folio, but I am not into many of their newer works. I have considered joining Arion Press instead and spend much less on Folio but am still on the fence.

I very much enjoy wcarters posts but they also fill me with nostalgia - the artwork of old was truly stunning. I look at many of the older productions and can stare at them for ages and go back to them throughout reading the book. For a lot of the newer books I'm not as impressed and just briefly look at them for seconds.

Probably venting here but I also had to leave the Folio Facebook groups. I tried for a few weeks to a month but it left such a sour taste in my mouth. Some people are kind and considerate but so many are rude, entitled, petulant, and selfish. I work in an environment where I get yelled at, belittled, berated with the occasional weekly to biweekly death threat (the wonders of hospital work,) but it was nothing compared to the smugness and cruelty of people on Facebook. Maybe it's just showing my age and I quit social media for years only to rejoin secondary to my love for Folio books, but I'm off again. I think this has made me anti-Folio as of late, but I truly hope those sentiments change. I'm very fortunate this group exists and am much happier now getting rid of Facebook.

>166 Joshbooks1: The FB group (the buying/selling one) is a mess! It's almost funny just how strange it gets at times. Facebook is just terrible in general as it is.

This group is a blessing. I am ever grateful to the reddit person who directed me here.

>166 Joshbooks1: I agree that some some productions quality are questionable for their price (which keeps increasing) but Folio can still surprise and confirm your reasons for loving their books with some releases. They are just not as consistent. I also only have a limited amount of disposable income and with higher prices for books this just makes me choosier in what I can buy and when I can buy it. But it helps that their back catalogue is great and affordable.

I agree about the Facebook groups. There are many on there who seem great lovers of the books and I have found it at times a great extension to this group for all things Folio Society. But like any other social media outlet there are those there that use it as a means of being all the things you outlined. It has been particularly bad this week with the release of the Book of the New Sun and the complaints of damage on delivery. Its useful information to know if there are production issues but not the repetitious stuff that was coming out. It can be very off putting. I will be more wary for the Spring release next week. I think its just a place to visit more infrequently for me as I still see a value in it at times to check. I find this group is generally more my speed.

I received my edition 2 days ago. Slipcase was damaged, one of the endpapers had a small piece of uncut extra-paper hanging at the corner and some pages were bent.
I sent an email to FS and they immediately dispatched a new set, by express mail.
Good news - it arrived fast.
Bad news, it also has a damaged slipcase !

Made in China , I suppose , coupled with opaque paper as a wrapper, instead of transparent plastic, means bad quality and bad quality control.

I asked them to give me a gift card instead of a replacement to a replacement - I am running out of space for Gene Wolfe books :)

>166 Joshbooks1: Don't worry about the FB group - as others have noted, FB in general is a strange place, and does tend to bring out more undesirable qualities in people. This must stem from a combination of its algorithms and functions: highly visual, attention economy mechanics, daily/hourly checks, rolling feeds etc.

I closed my FB account down about 3-4 years ago and no regrets, other than not being able to get ready updates to some of my favourite food/wine producers who use FB as their main platform for communication. Although for most updates, you can join an email dist list.

I realised that I was getting a daily feed of a whole bunch of people's lives who I didn't particularly care about, and who didn't care about me. I'm still in regular touch with the people who were genuine friends.

In fact, I've travelled back in time really...using discussion forums and platforms like this that are much better curated to specific interests and less about 'being seen'. That was much more how the internet developed in the earlier days, before these behemoth 'broadband' / Town Square channels like Twitter, FB etc.

Social media platforms are status as service platforms. They are filled with people constructing alternate lives for themselves and showing off how "splendid their life is, how life is a series of good moments, how it is better than others etc". Better to stay as far away from those platforms as possible.

Can someone help me understand the difference between the relentless complaints about the quality of the books here versus the Facebook Fans group?

>172 U_238: There isn't any. In fact, though I still enjoy this group and have found it to be a tremendous source of information, I find these boards much more generally negative than the FB group (this is true about other LT groups like Fine Press, too). Though there has been a general upsurge lately in nitpicky complaints about Folio quality and damaged books (The New Sun books excepted, as there seem to be some legitimate issues, though perhaps somewhat overblown), the Folio Facebook group tends to be far more positive in nature. And despite a recent comment to the contrary, I find the FB Folio Buy/Sell group also to be generally pleasant and well-run.

>170 Jeremy53:
I realised that I was getting a daily feed of a whole bunch of people's lives who I didn't particularly care about, and who didn't care about me. I'm still in regular touch with the people who were genuine friends.
I've found what works for me is keeping my friends list fairly tight. Whilst I belong to a number of groups, I follow very few, but just go and browse through every now and again (some more than others) - Facebook is so random as to what it shows on my timeline anyway that if I'm going to keep in touch with anything/anyone I need to do that anyway. Even then, I keep it pretty tight. It's certainly very useful for keeping in touch with what's happening locally as our village, community centre, various local societies and my cycling club all have very active FB pages.

This all means that my Facebook page stays reasonably handleable and personal; I regularly sift through groups to ensure it stays so. Certainly, it's enabled me to keep in far better touch than previously with one branch of the family who use it a lot (which was the reason I joined in the first place). I dislike FB intensely in the way it works, but have been able to largely make it work for me. However, pretty much all my book interests are through forums!

>172 U_238: >173 whytewolf1:
I would beg to differ about the 'relentless complaints' - having done a quick skim through recent threads, I think your perception of negativity here is rather overblown, but we all have different tolerance levels, and perhaps mine are greater than yours when it comes to these boards, or yours are the other way round! What I find different, is that, with the odd exception (!), the atmosphere here is generally calmer - for me the FB page tends to either the overwrought gushing of how amazing FS is or how amazing someone's latest acquisition/bookshelf is, or it's all doom and gloom about how bad FS quality assurance/ebay sellers/abebooks sellers is/are. There isn't the depth that I find here. But for me that probably says more about the nature of Facebook than the people involved, and reflects much of what I dislike about Facebook rather than the people using it. I'm also talking in fairly broad brush terms too!

Apologies if I've gone on rather long on this post (and gone OT) - something the style of Facebook definitely discourages!

>174 Willoyd: This is how I handle facebook also. Now on the phone as well as on desktop you can sort posts chronologically, and with a friends list of only people I care about plus groups I'm interested in seeing everything from, it's good. I also judiciously unfollow or snooze friends who are getting annoying in their posts but who I don't want to unfriend, and block people in groups whose posts I find annoying. If you actively manage things this way you can keep it curated to things you're interested in seeing.

>160 bookish_elf: I honestly have not noticed an overall quality decline in anything except the LEs. This is only the second book I've ever received with a defect and the first was just a bit of excess glue from the headband on top spilling over the pages... annoying but it peeled off. I guess I don't know about their CS though since I've never before now had reason to contact them!

>173 whytewolf1: The Facebook groups might have changed, but when I joined it seemed to be full of professional dealers (acting as individuals) hyping everything up and then charging much higher prices than elsewhere. There may be more negativity here, but I trust the opinions of others on here, whilst on FB I was very (too?) suspicious of the motivations of posters when they posted

I think a large part of what makes here different is just the medium itself - LibraryThing doesn’t allow all the silly and juvenile GIFs, one word “lol” responses, the lack of upvoting (likes) which just serves to encourage these things, and perhaps even the added effort it takes to post here - it discourages the vapid exchanges filling many of the threads on the Fans page.

Having said that, everyone’s different, and especially during times like these, whatever place people can find a sense of community and be happy, so be it.

>177 U_238: I've been here for almost a year and users here never really insulted me personally lol like some guy on facebook told me to go buy a marvel comics if I care about the illustrations soo much(I said FS have double the illustrations on Exorcist than Suntup)but I prefer the FB group still just because of the.. age range? Like most people in here act and sound like they're old people. They are always civil, but LT reminds me of a 'friend' who only read non-fiction and looks down on me for reading a recent bestseller.

>178 HamburgerHelper:

There's actually a thread on member age somewhere around here. I believe there weren't many 20-somethings at all.

>178 HamburgerHelper:
>179 adriano77:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/119419

>178 HamburgerHelper: I couldn’t agree more!

>178 HamburgerHelper:, just give it time.

I remember commenting on the age post years ago when it started (I lost that username along the way). At the time I was in the younger category, now I’m approaching the median age.

How time marches on.

>178 HamburgerHelper:
but I prefer the FB group still just because of the.. age range? Like most people in here act and sound like they're old people. They are always civil, but LT reminds me of a 'friend' who only read non-fiction and looks down on me for reading a recent bestseller.

You're almost certainly right on the age question, forums tend to be the province of older people (in my early 60s, I prefer to regard myself as upper middle-age!) - although my son (himself an aged 29 now) tells me that only old people use Facebook nowadays.....

>178 HamburgerHelper:

I quite agree. There are far too many old people on here, me included. But we need the company, you see, because we don't get out that much and phones and computers are baffling and typing with two fififififififingers is slow and tiring. By the time I find the Shed, I'm stuck in here for hours at a time, because I can't remember why I wanted to come in here in the first place and often lose the string that allows me to get back to the house safely. And FS doesn't publish books for old people any more. When I was a lot younger, they did, and I was happy. Now, every new book is a horror and I can't sleep at night.

>184 boldface:

How well you sum up the FSD experience of us oldies. How's Aunt Dottie?

>176 DMulvee: Fair enough. Communities certainly do change over time, and in fact, a small number of very active individuals can often have an outsize effect on the tone of any group, and who those individuals are, often also changes over time.

>178 HamburgerHelper: Check back here in 20 years and see how it goes. By then you will be in your 40s I'm guessing since you said you were 20 something. You will hopefully be a different person than the one from 2021.

Life and people fade in and out... What was once important isn't anymore. A place or situation only takes on the energy one gives it. If something has an old vibe, it will always be old until something or someone comes in and changes it. This goes both ways, something young and vibrant turns old and stale. It's energy that keeps things going. If something is dead or dormant, and nobody is tending the garden, nothing will grow. A perfect example of this is dormant threads. As soon as someone puts energy into "undeading" a thread, it's no longer dormant but available for new comments and perspectives to be added to it. When everyone is agreeing, then it will become like an old person's party. It's like driving in one of those gated 55+ communities. "We don't want no young uns getting into mischief. Throwing around emojis or causing an old person to become uncomfortable". IMO, all ages should attempt to learn how to accommodate others. We all may actually learn something from each other. Sometimes being too comfortable is like building your own coffin before its time. I ran across this poem and it has so much context within context about aging and seeing differently:

Old Man by Edward Thomas https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57210/old-man-56d23a7a628f2

>178 HamburgerHelper: Your first mistake was clearly even hinting that something was not so great about a Suntup book lol.

The Facebook group tends to be less civil with people quick to hostility over minor things for instance when a thread asked the differences between the Da Vinci Journals I merely pointed out the older versions were genuine leather and the new were bonded leather and this guy who owned the new ones exploded threatening me for several posts about how dare I try and be superior about leather types and who cares about that ect. So yes I find the posts here much more to my liking.

>172 U_238: Facebook and other social media platforms use algorithms to promote engagement.

The algorithm learns what causes a user to ‘engage’ and shows them more of this. Unfortunately, anger is a much more powerful at driving this engagement than positive emotions, so the algorithms show articles which make people angry. This promotes more engagement, and more anger, and so on in a vicious circle.

It also means that users see completely different things, leading to polarisation on all issues. Even Google will present completely different results to you and me if we’re to type in the same search.

Social media is poison, and you are better off without it. For all its faults, this forum is very simple, it shows newest posts first, and it shows everything to everybody equally, with no selection bias. Wikipedia is the same, an oasis of dignity in the swamp of the internet.

I really don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that Facebook, Twitter and, increasingly, YouTube are bad for humanity and make the world a worse place every day. Do yourself a favour and delete your accounts if you have any.

>190 Uppernorwood: If you append ?sk=h_chr after the slash in the facebook link you can go to a chronological view of posts, and on the phone you can scroll down a bit then at the top click "recents." This will give less of an algorithmic view - the algorithm will still decide on ads and sponsored posts but mostly you'll be seeing things chronologically. I view Facebook solely this way because the algorithms deliver me only posts from the same several friends who have a ton of followers.

I agree that the non-algorithmic method is superior, like this forum and others. You see a wider variety of posts from all sorts of people, not simply the most controversial or "engaging."

I just rejoined the Facebook group and see that someone commented that their copy of The Book of the New Sun was damaged on the front. A poster tells them to contact support as they will probably be sent a new one. The purchaser confirms that a new one is being sent out and that they can keep this version. The poster who told them to contact support then posts “Now sell it for profit”.

These type of interactions might be another reason why I left

>192 DMulvee: It always amuses me how "Oh my god, there's significant and intolerable damage to the slipcase of this book, please ship a replacement ASAP" turns into "Please note, there's a minor scratch to the slipcase but this can be detected only under a microscope by UV light" as soon as the book is up on eBay.

>176 DMulvee: Feels still pretty much the same, I think. Recently someone posted Heart of Darkness for $230! I don't keep up much with the prices of sold out FS editions, but that seems to me to be entirely too much.

>178 HamburgerHelper:
Funny, that's exactly why I love FSD so much. It feels almost intimidating, but more importantly highly edifying, to be here. Not only do I get great information regarding past FS volumes, I also get reliable book reviews from people who are very well read. I can't say if it feels like a 'friend' yet as I am still too new. But I do appreciate the 'dryness' of it all, the lack of heart emojis, the gushing over each other, the constant agreeing with each other and considering of one word of discord as the bane to their existence.

FB, on the other hand, is somehow a bit cringey. People announcing in a huff that they are leaving, others apologising for having said one discordant word, mods deleting comments willy nilly, all the messages reminding everyone to be unicorns with rainbows as tails, "since their is so much pain in the world right now"...it's just so...well, cringey.

Sadly, the only social medium that I actually enjoy and love (Reddit) doesn't have a thriving FS community. Maybe someday.

>183 Willoyd:

Your son is quite right. My mum, who is in her late 50s, joined FB a couple of years ago. I am happy that she is finding people across the world with whom she can engage and find common hobbies, but I also tell her to be very careful about the sort of posts that are shown to her, and that just because someone sends her a forward or something, doesn't mean that it's true. I think, that at this stage, I need to become my parents' teacher and teach them more and more about Internet literacy, in general and social media literacy in particular. FB along with Google and WhatsApp are great at targeting people and promoting indignant, and sometimes prejudicial, views.

Social media is nice when it`s used to purpose, but I feel the tense energy sometimes that `somebody is offended, but why`- - I am offended. Period ! Nothing makes me loose interest more than that, and the follow-up with someone almost handling out diagnosis to said behavior. Not my problem. That is because I have never intently offended anyone. So, that is the first.

The second is the use of superlatives. It can get annoying. When everything is `oh my gosh` all the time, and always humble, defensive, safe. I am not worthy to speak my opinion. But I am worthy to cut down those that do. It kind of sink into each other and assimilates into something of a nothingness. Nice is very good, the best. But too much can also be a killer. We all need some kind of resistance to feel alive, but the right.

So, Facebook. Quick in. Quick out. But has it`s moments. I am not very active.

Librarything could need some more energy. It`s too much `Jolly good mate. Jolly good` I drank a cup of tea yesterday you hear, and double dipped my biscuit.

I like librarything, and the people here (let`s hope I never meet any in real life to turn that around) and a little more sceptic to Facebook. Facebook makes people believe they talk to the world, but they don`t, they just talk to other people on Facebook.

I have not been on many bookish forums online, likely many of the same as most of you. But, hear me on this. Librarything is the only place I have been where it is possible to get a proper answer, to write something that is somewhat `off` and actually get a response. It has to be relevant of course. But, to me that is a solid trait, meaning it is not made of glass.

Glenn needs someone to pull him in the ears from time to time, one of my missions besides this common interest we share with books. Did you know : Every time his ear is pulled, a penny drops out ?

-

Book of the New Sun, standard / fine edition, not the LE. One of the most awaited titles I dare to say ever from FS. I am sure many loves the edition, but those that don`t and find faults with the latest printing are just double disappointed. The anticipation of waiting for the edition was better then the "end product"

`I tried to kiss her, but she turned her cheek` `My dog loves me. No he doesn`t, he loves that I provide him with food`

Have a Jolly Weekend fellow friends !

>190 Uppernorwood: Agreed, except I wouldn't call wiki an oasis of dignity. Plenty of ideologically driven "articles" written by keyboard warriors, editing wars, etc. I'm not even talking about intentionally and unintentionally wrong information, sloppy articles etc. Still head and shoulders above narcissistic echo-chambers like twitter, I guess, but it's a bit of a different beast too.

>196 elladan0891:

Wikipedia as an "oasis of dignity" is the funniest thing I've read in quite some time.

I haven't been active for a while so this is news to me. When did Folio start printing in China and how has the quality been affected?

On a side note, if anyone wants to part with their LE version please let me know. I went out of town when it was released and missed out :/. Although I'm not willing to over pay, but rest assure it will go to a someone who loves Folio books and not a reseller.

>198 JuliusC: I think they started in 2017. Reprints are often done in China now. Some new editions too, although majority are still printed in Europe. Quality-wise, my biggest quibble is with paper. Pretty much all Chinese editions use the same paper, which lacks any texture. I think it's too smooth and ordinary, not much different than the stock I have in my printer. Personally, I wouldn't buy any Chinese reprint simply because of the paper. I do buy completely new Chinese folios sometimes, reluctantly. Some devotees have the same sentiments, some said they're fine with this paper.

One Chinese production to definitely steer away from is the Silmarillion. Printing quality is atrocious - very, very pixellated. The problem started with Spanish reprints, and got really magnified in China. Earlier British printings are the way to go. That's the only edition with bad printing I'm aware of, printing quality of other Chinese folios is good.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/1756#7087213

>198 JuliusC:
"When did Folio start printing in China and how has the quality been affected?"
In 1993, the Presentation volume for that year. Everyone received a copy, and nobody noticed it was printed in Hong Kong.
They've printed a majority of their books for the last few years in China and Slovakia, because they didn't have much choice. The British houses that they traditionally used no longer exist. A few years ago a multinational company based in France systematically bought them up, sold off most of their assets including physical plant, keeping a core capacity capable of producing only run-of-the-mill product at prices they could now dictate. Most British publishers use them. They couldn't and needn't buy up all the smaller firms, and some once used by Folio are still around. Some, like Smith Settle, usually produced LEs. Others, like TJ International, concentrate on small or medium runs.
Italian and German printers are still in business, but they've most often been used for high-end product. The attraction of China and Slovakia is low wages.
Folio use only one long-established Chinese firm, with a long record of quality production. Now that Hong Kong is no longer a British protectorate, the firm has expanded into mainland China. Many people object to buying anything from China for political reasons. Slovakia is no longer communist, and is part of the EU. It has cleaned up its industrial pollution problem, and conformed to standard Western ethics, except possibly in its attitude to the Roma.

I have a few books printed in China and the paper used in some are not desired. Some have fallen apart/deteriorated over the years, and these are not cheap books btw. Several years ago there were talks about Folio not doing well financially so I'm guessing this is a way to balancing their books. I'm not a fan of it especially at this price but time will tell how well they hold up and how fellow devotees feel about it.
My favourite bindings are those that come from Memmingen, Germany. Call me crazy, but there's just something in the way the pages turn that feels so natural and effortless. Where as some feels tight and you're just fighting to keep it open.
>199 elladan0891: I remember some criticizing Folio for always using the same old "boring" Abbey Wove paper, I guess now that has been taken for granted.

It is a bit amusing to hear Reddit is more tolerable than other social media, what with constant references to the jolly rancher incident, cum socks, Rick rolls, I’d also like to sleep with your dead wife, etc.

I guess most places where people gather will find a range of good and bad.

>202 U_238: Have you seen the pettiness and cruelty on Facebook? There are some decent people on the Facebook Folio pages (both the Fans and buy/trade) but the smugness of both groups are extremely off-putting. It's such a mob mentality where people love to belittle and somehow feel superior over luxury books? I don't get it; give me reddit any day of the week.

People may not like this website but the difference between this and Facebook is civility. On Librarything this group had a very civil and mature conversation on Brexit! I don't think you can get into a more divisive argument. Multiple people on the Facebook groups will call you an ignorant sod who is a failure in life because you like to keep your books shrink-wrapped. Therein lies the difference. For me it's an easy choice.

>203 Joshbooks1: I prefer it here myself, I always learn something new. It’s very civilized.

I'm very happy with the book. The 2-color pages, the capital letters that open each chapter, the illustrations - I'm enjoying it all so much!

Comparing with Dune the paper does feels super-smooth (or more artificial) than Abbey. However, in my eyes, it's either thicker or denser because the back-page text seems less visible in New Sun than in Dune.

>204 U_238: Ya same except my only complaint is that I've spent thousands more due to this damn site, especially with limited editions. The enablement!

>201 JuliusC: can you give an example of a book bound in Memmingen? If my memory serves me correctly they only did printing there and bound books at Lachenmaier in Reutlingen (now sadly defunct)...

>207 stopsurfing: I stand corrected, bound at Lachenmaier, Reutlingen, Germany. Most if not all of the "Fine" Folio editions I have are bound by them but even standard books such as Dracula and The War of the End of the World are all pleasure to hold so it saddens me to hear they are now defunct.

>193 ubiquitousuk: Lol!
It is probably true in some cases.

What kind of damage would warrant a request for a replacement in your opinion?
Does this qualify?



How about this? Would you say it's a well made item, a bulge on one side and a dent on the other nonwithstanding? Worth $195 spent ?

>209 dar.lynk: To me, any damage at this price is unacceptable. Definitely worth asking for a replacement!

>210 Yohannas: I did. First picture is the replacement's item damage. Two others are the original.
Two firsts for me:
- I never received a damaged book from Folio before
- I never received a damaged item as a replacement for the original from anyone :)

>208 JuliusC: thanks for replying. I’m so often wrong it’s nice to hear that I’m right once in a while. I entirely agree with you by the way, the German stuff hits a sweet spot. I live near Reutlingen and managed to buy a few books from the new owner of the building. They had been left behind in some dusty corner by Lachenmaier when they left. There does seem to be other German firms that can take up the slack though: I notice that Dune (7th printing) is now bound at Josef Spinner in Ottersweier. (By the by, the quality seems to be the same as the first printing - the buckram is a bit finer grained and the spine is not as rounded but otherwise identical. Printing is still done at Memmingen so that’s the same.) To bring this back to the thread topic, it’s a shame TBOTNS has quality control issues and it’s hard to imagine those happening if that had used their trusty European (or British) suppliers - I feel for the customer service stuff caught in the middle between managerial decisions and customer expectations. If this is enough of a ‘disaster’ then maybe they’ll start to move away from ‘Made in China’, here’s hoping...

>211 dar.lynk: My second replacement is on the way now, if it’s as damaged as the first two were, I’ll just ask for a refund and send them all back. I’ve had issues with lots of Folio orders in the past but I’ve never needed a second replacement before!

>213 Yohannas: Welcome to the new world. When dead mosquitoes are found inside FS books, I'm not surprised about anything else. They understood that they have a monopoly on well designed books and are just exploiting it. They have no regard for their long standing customers, all that they care about is acquiring new customers who buy a book and then disappear and then they find a new one etc. Lord Gavron wouldn't have let FS decline to this level. He even wanted all FS books to be printed in Britain. Such a sad turn of affairs.

>213 Yohannas: I don't think it's possible to get undamaged slipcases from the Folio Society for heavy books anymore. I recently ordered the Gargantua and Pantagruel LE. Unlike previous LEs that I've purchased from the FS, this large heavy set was only protected on three sides and therefore allowed the slipcase to incur substantial damage. I don't see any point in shipping the LE back and getting another copy because I'm sure the flaw in packaging will result in another damaged copy. I'll propose they send me a new slipcase (one book had a minor corner bump that I'm willing to live with) but I'm guessing I'll just have to send the whole thing back and forget about ordering any big heavy books from them. It's a pity since in the old days they had no trouble shipping LEs in super protective packaging.

>215 kdweber:

Still not a fan of the crumpled brown paper compared to the bubble packets. Those were fantastic. As much as FS says it was done for "green" purposes I'm guessing it was really for cost saving.

>216 adriano77: I'm talking about the LE packaging which used to be a perfectly fitted box with large crumple zones around all four sides.

>217 kdweber:

I know. Just felt like going off on general packing tangent as it's changed for the worse too, IMO.

Although not a SF fan per se, I've been impressed with what I've read about this book and Wolfe in general. I thought the LE looked spectacular, but I was never going to take a punt on something I didn't know at that price. Anyway, I ordered the SE and it arrived in a week and in good nick. I haven't found any of the flaws or transit damage others have encountered. The only minor issue is that the black edging on page tops has bled into some pages - not extensively, but so you'd notice. But looking forward to reading this (once I find somewhere to shelve it).

>220 the_bb:

Are you implying dar.lynk listed their damaged copy as "like new" on eBay?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224373692888

"Condition: Like New"

>221 adriano77: He is not implying - he contacted me directly and asked for a lower price.
I gave him the link, since the book was already in the middle of an auction.
Ebay does not have a status "New but damaged", and I took the wrappers off. So "Like New" is accurate.
My description there clearly states the damage and has the photos.
Seems like he is bitter I did not sell the book directly to him - that's just petty and unseemly.

>223 dar.lynk:

Clicking on his username produced the message "Error: This user doesn't exist".

>223 dar.lynk: How could the book possibly be accurately described as "Like New" when it was so damaged or imperfect you requested a replacement from the Folio Society?

It's either:
1. Damaged and not worth the full price, so you requested a replacement. In which case I can't see how you could describe it as like new on eBay. eBay likely has no category for "New but damaged" because in no version of reality does such a thing exist.

OR

2. Or it's not really that damaged, which raises the question why you requested a replacement in the first place.

I wonder how many people out there cross their fingers hoping to unwrap a book with a wrinkled page so they can throw it up on eBay and subsidize the cost of the new one they get to keep.

>225 U_238: Personally, I shook my head at >223 dar.lynk:...not my business but odd to be so unashamed of flipping a book that is barely damaged.

>226 RRCBS: I suggested to FS to ship the item back - they refused.
Would you rather I used the book as a doorstop?
Or maybe give it to the local library?
If anyone here would've asked me to sell it to them for a lower than FS price BEFORE I listed it on Ebay, I would have.
But none of you did.
That's my first sell on Ebay, I am not running around trying to game the system.
To all of the finger-wagging croud - Stop being hypocrites and shaming me for a perfectly reasonable action for the love of Almighty!

Well the book that was so badly damaged that a replacement was requested has just been sold on eBay for $182.50 with the below description.

"Condition is "Brand New", paper seal removed on arrival for inspection , books were not read. There is a production defect on the back and one of the sides of the slipcase "

Never understood why so many would buy books still in print via the secondhand market for close too or more than the issued price, shipping is not an argument. The market is there to be taken advantage of to be fair.

>226 RRCBS: Sadly they are flipped books up on Ebay every week. I saw an Outlaws on the Marsh up there yesterday and it mentioned slight damage and I was straining the eyes to see where it was indicated in the photos. Still not sure I saw anything. I have been lucky in that I have only ever received one damaged copy from Folio. It was Dune last year and the liner was not glued properly as it was barely on. I emailed Folio to let them know and they shipped another one, which I did not want as it was an easy book glue fix. The replacement copy ended up being the substandard one as the print on the cover was faded compared to the original which is now perfect. It will be gifted to my brother as Folio did not want it returned and I would feel guilty selling it as the replacement was sent in good faith from Folio.

Edit: To clarify, my opinion above is not directed at anybody here. I was speaking in generalities. What others want to do with their replacements/damaged copies is their own business.

"There is a production defect on the back and one of the sides of the slipcase"

Should ring some bells to be fair. The ignorance of the buyer is to be blamed (and taken advantage of) don`t know which is worst or if it is. Not my business. Personally I don`t care. I learned from my own mistakes.

Repeat. I am not judging. Not my business.

I have a Lolita copy with a bumpy slipcase. Looking forward to sell that one for £500 (kidding - I think)

>229 Pellias: Poor research practices? Or trusting ebay/paypal more than a private company if something goes wrong...

>230 assemblyman: It's nice to have a brother who reads :). I am not as fortunate as you - my relatives /friends either don't read English or prefer TV. They would never appreciate a gift like that. Why do you think I joined this forum ?

>232 AnnieMod: Something it is. What seem logic to one person - is completely off with one other. Humans in a nutshell. I know a lot of persons that would bite such a bullet to be fair, as do most of us. It`s just that we - are so deep into the materials of this devotee business and seem to forget that once in a while, we know a lot of weird stuff others don`t (and often not care about).

>233 dar.lynk: It is still sitting on my shelf as he is in Australia and he will only get it once air travel is permitted so he can visit. It could be a while. Apart from my brothers I would struggle like you to gift most books I prefer to anyone. Also why I joined the forum :)

>235 assemblyman: >233 dar.lynk:

I am available to receive gifts of books and will read them I promise. Just sayin’...

>227 dar.lynk:

Dinged slipcases don't bother me, that is what they are for. However I will also buy bruised fruit to prevent waste. I have had an instance when a Folio order didn't arrive, and after four weeks (I'm in the USA) they shipped a replacement package. I think it was five books, I no longer remember which ones. The day after the replacement order arrived on my doorstep, the original order was delivered much worse for the wear. The books however were fine, and yes, I did donate the extra books to my local library sale.

I would have felt unseemly to profit from Folio's misfortune & hopefully someone was delighted with their book sale find.

>237 kcshankd: Obviously you are a better person than I am. How does that feel?

Deleted

>238 dar.lynk:

I offered that because you seemed to dismiss the option out of hand at 227

Obviously if everyone treated each purchase as a two for one sale than either the Folio Society goes out of business or prices will continue to accelerate beyond my means, neither of which I want to happen.

>227 dar.lynk: I don’t think we are being hypocrites, to differing degrees we are all pleased the FS exists. The right thing to do in this situation would have been to give it away for free to either a charity or someone you know.

Edit: I think that it is justified in requesting a replacement for a fault in any book if the fault bothers them and they would not have purchased the book if they had seen it’s condition. Given the current Folio policy of not requesting initial books back, my personal opinion is that if they are given to charity or sold for a nominal amount ($5/10) then someone who doesn’t normally buy Folio books might find it, purchase it and then buy Folio books in future. However selling it so close to the FS price deprives the FS of a sale, which I assume the buyer of this copy could afford to be

>241 DMulvee: Yep, completely agree with this. Personally, I don't think it's right to exploit FS's goodwill - no finger wagging, people can do what they like, I just think it's a bit rum. I've received one replacement for a defective book in my time (the only time I felt the defect significant enough to contact FS about). It was a copy of Something Wicked This Way Comes, where the cloth had been crumpled before being adhered to the back cover - it wasn't that noticeable visually but the issue was that it created fairly deep wrinkles across the back of the book in exactly the place that it would rest in the hands when reading, and I just would have found that way too distracting. I'm fortunate that I have a friend who also likes Folio and with whom I share a lot of similar tastes in books, so I was able to gift the spare copy. But if I didn't have anyone to gift to, or if my friend already owned a copy, it would have gone to a charity shop. There's always a way to donate or gift a book, if someone would rather sell it and there's a willing buyer, fine, you do you, but it's hardly a case of being painted into a corner.

>237 kcshankd:

(Sorry misread the situation you described. Deleted. Please ignore.)

I have to agree wholeheartedly with the consensus here that the right thing to do is to gift or donate the damaged book. If you're selling a slightly dinged copy of a book currently in production by Folio, in my opinion, you're not only abusing a loophole in their replacement policy (the fact that it's likely too costly/impractical in most cases to require returns of damaged items), but you are very likely robbing Folio of a legitimate sale from someone who would have had to buy it direct had they not been offered a cheaper, slightly imperfect alternative.

I had this exact situation come up in the past year with two books that came damaged and that were meant for gifts. I let the teenage recipients choose what to do with the damaged books, and they chose to offer them to younger relatives who they knew would enjoy them and who would be unbothered by the damage. This was, of course, a correct choice.

>227 dar.lynk: "Or maybe give it to the local library?"

You make this sound like an insane choice for some reason. If a book is good enough to be sold with identifiers such as "As New" or "Brand New", there is no reason for a library to refuse it. That's where the 2 Folio books I asked for replacements for ended up (one was because of a slipcase issue (someone with not exactly clean hands had left a lot of smudges on it...), the other had miss-alignment issues on the cover and spine that were too severe to ignore; the library did not care about either problem). Same for the book Folio shipped me twice (the original copy arrived 2 months after the replacement)

Depending on the library, they can use them directly or they can sell them and use the profit. Either works for me.

It is your choice how you dispose of a free book you ended up with due to the generosity of a publisher. But saying that everyone who says that they would not sell in such cases is a hypocrite is uncalled for.

Technically you own what you have paid for: the good copy. The one you have refused remains the property of FS, and their website reinforces that by giving instructions on how to return it. In practice they don't enforce that for economic reasons, but any time they've sent me a defective copy they've made their wishes quite clear: donate it to a charity, school or library of your choice. The morality of selling something for which you haven't paid is hardly in doubt.

I've had a few replacements from FS after books arrived damaged (only a few - the vast majority are perfect, obviously, and I don't ask for replacements if the damage/defect is only minor). I've given all the originals away. It feels instinctively wrong to me to profit from such a situation: I paid for one book (often at a discount in the first place), and that's what I should end up with, not one book plus a bit of cash on the side.

>246 Jayked: Technically you are right.
And you are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts.

A lot of you assume I am going to profit from the sale.
Since I did not gift it or donated the book outright, I must be lining my pockets.
That is saying a lot about you, not about me.

You have no idea what I planned to do with the money and , after reading the comments, I now have no inclination to tell you.
Enjoy feeling moral superiority, if that's what rocks your boat.

>248 dar.lynk: It's true that we don't know what you planned to do with the money, I grant you, and there's no reason for you to tell us if you're not inclined to do so - it's your business, and no one here has really implied otherwise, but just stated what their own position is. But I really don't see what it particularly says about any of us. On the other hand, I genuinely don't think this is about anyone enjoying feeling morally superior either (certainly not as far as I'm concerned, like I said, you do you) - I think there's more than a bit of projection going on here and it might be worth reflecting on what that says about you?

Not trying to cause a divide between people but darlynk seems like a great guy and member of this group and I personally don’t have an issue with him selling the book. I also asked him about buying the book at a reasonable price but it was too late. However, I would not paid near what that buyer did so I’m happy for him because I know he’ll put that money right back into Folio. I think he said this was his first time anyway so he’s not someone who abuses the system. I hope you don’t feel let down by some of the comments man.

Till the very last line I was a bit confused as to why that particular comment was flagged so many times.

Rather harsh and rude.

This has literally turned into a witch hunt and is uncalled for, I'm surprised this is even allowed. I thought calling people bottom feeders and other damaging names is not permitted?

>252 sekhmet0108: >253 Comatoes: Yes, I don't think dar.lynk's response to others stating their positions on the matter, accusations of hypocrisy etc have been particularly helpful but perhaps understandable if it feels like everyone else is on 'the other side' and you feel like you've been put in a position of defending yourself, and I hope there are no hard feelings about the previous discussion. But comments like that in >251 bookish_elf: are completely uncalled for and don't serve the wider discussion at all.

>215 kdweber: Just catching up on this thread - I too ordered a copy of G&P - it arrived last week and there was no damage to the books or slipcase. I’m not sure, but you may want to get a replacement since mine came in pristine condition. I’m willing to tolerate a decent amount of imperfections and not request a replacement, but given then cost and the damage you describe it would be perfectly reasonable to do so.

>255 vmb443: where are you located? I don't doubt that a UK delivery might arrive unscathed but the weak packaging is not likely to protect a cross Atlantic voyage. Congrats on your purchase, I like the the LE and I only have minor damage to one volume that I can live with but it really bothers me that the FS only protected three sides in the packaging when they used to protect all four and at such a high cost I deserve a slipcase that doesn't have a crushed corner.

My copy should arrive in California next week. I am very anxious to see what condition it’s in...

>256 kdweber: I am in the US, so I’m not sure why your copy arrived with a crushed corner and mine not. I can see why you would be frustrated.

OK, I am very happy to report that my copy arrived in California today in absolutely flawless mint condition. Very pleased.

I had expressed reservations about this book in >75 ubiquitousuk: on the basis that I'm not much of a sci-fi/fantasy reader. But ~100 pages in and I might be ready to change my mind! This is indeed the "literary sci-fi" that was promised. Then I came across this illustration of a particular chapter early in the book and I realised there's a(t least one) whole extra level of depth that I'm not even seeing right now—mind blown!

Finished the first two books and absolutely loving it.

>260 ubiquitousuk: Quite a lot of stuff is explicitly mentioned early on, but very briefly and very easy to miss - I think because one is expecting one sort of book rather than another. (Trying to avoid spoilers.... !)

A good series of articles deciphering the books:
https://www.tor.com/2019/08/22/gene-wolfes-the-shadow-of-the-torturer-part-1/

It will ensure one doesn't miss much on first read - there are spoilers however so best to read after finishing each book.

Anybody interested in selling their LE set?? Willing to buy, thanks!

Hey folks,

As some you may be aware a rare state of affairs occurred recently (as far as the Folio Society is concerned) where a significant percentage of a print run was affected with quality issues. I am in the unenviable position of having received a series of marked replacements of 'The Book of the New Sun' by Gene Wolfe.

I would like to offer these up for people who wouldn't be able to afford them otherwise, who would pay for the postage to receive them. I live in Finland but have no idea how much the postage would be, I guess it depends on where you live. The editions are subject to either scuffing, scratches, and indentations that run the length of the cover, or a mixture of all of these. They do not look as if they have been attacked by an inveterate slasher, the cover images are all visible (and some are undamaged), but noticeably marked. An example is available on the Facebook group (I don't know how to post images here).

If anyone's interested I'm guessing a lottery is the best way to go. So, if you'd like to enter please respond somewhere in your message with 'the new sun'. I will then assign a number to each response and use a random number website to choose. I will also be posting this message on the Facebook fans group so if you see it there kindly refrain from responding to both posts.

Once the lottery is over I will collect addresses and calculate the postage costs. They will be posted in their original packaging. I'm sure I've forgotten to say something important but if you have any questions please ask. All the best, Alex.

>267 AHub:

Not interested in the lottery but this post has me wondering...

Is this FS' worst launch of a title?

I've never seen anything like this in terms of how widespread the reported issues seem, let alone so many people getting replacements. Multiple replacements at that.

I hope this makes them reconsider using the same printers again.

>267 AHub: An example is available on the Facebook group (I don't know how to post images here).

From the FSD Wiki (https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Groups:Folio_Society_Devotees ):

To load a picture to a thread using the LT junk folder follow these steps:-
Library Thing -> Home -> Profile -> Your member gallery (top right of screen) -> Junk Drawer (left side screen) -> Add Another Picture -> select picture you wish to use by using Browse in the pop-up box and once selected click on Upload button at bottom of box -> click on thumbnail of picture to open it in Junk Folder -> mouse right click on opened picture in Junk Folder and select Copy Image Location -> paste copied link between quotation marks in formula above into your comment on the thread.
It is often easier to compose a picture containing comment in a Word document first, then copy everything into the Add a Message box at the bottom of a thread.
If the picture is subsequently removed from the place where you posted it, the picture will disappear from the LT post.
The ways of posting a picture to a LT forum post are discussed and demonstrated in this thread:-

https://www.librarything.com/topic/184357

>267 AHub: I would suggest that you direct people to leave messages on your wall here, NOT on a public thread in the group, to avoid clutter.

Giving away the extras is a nice thing of you to do.

Direct people to your profile page, here:

https://www.librarything.com/profile/AHub

There’s a form box where people can leave you a direct message (people entering the lottery can check the “private” box to make it a non public message).

>267 AHub:

Getting back to your post I applaud your generosity in making multiple copies available to FSD members. If I might be the proverbial wet blanket I think it's worth saying that not everyone out there is as unselfish and considerate as you are being and it's possible you may attract resellers, who will go on to offer the books for sale on eBay, Abe or the Facebook Buy/Sell/Trade site. How precisely you spot someone like that I cannot tell you but I thought you should be aware of the possibility.

Congratulations again on your selfless consideration for fellow book-lovers.

I'm one of the fortunate (minority?) who received this set undamaged and unmarred. I completely agree with the posters above who think that FS should discontinue usage of the printer.

The first set Folio sent me was riddled with issues. Crushed corners on the slipcase, deep gashes on the spine of the second volume, dents on the boards and many scratches on the top edge stain. Plus the last 15-20 pages of the first volume were creased. Extremely poor quality control. I too hope Folio steer clear of this particular printer in the future, even more so for the finer/expensive editions like TBOTNS.

The second set they sent me wasn’t free of faults, but still much better. I decided to not ask for a replacement.

>270 abysswalker: Thank you. That's a much better idea. If anyone is interested in please follow this fine suggestion and send me a private message or on my wall.

>271 folio_books: Yes, the possibility of someone making a quick buck off a freebie had occurred to me but, as you say, there doesn't seem to be much practically speaking that I could do about it. I shall leave it to chance and do my best.

>275 AHub: From what I've seen, most people on this forum have the integrity not to do those kind of shenanigans.

>276 L.Bloom: Well, when all's said and done I prefer that assumption to the alternative anyway.

>276 L.Bloom: most people on this forum have the integrity not to do those kind of shenanigans.

On this forum, I would agree with you. I wouldn't be confident about the Facebook groups.

I don't think that anybody would fall this low. To take a free copy being offered by a generous person only to sell it on.

Neither on this forum nor on that. I am no huge fan of the FB page either, but this is just too much.

Id have to agree that I can think of no edition plagued with such wide scale quality control issues. My replacement copies were actually worse than the first set I received but I managed to rub off a lot of the scuff marks and not mind a few scratches in the end. On the positive side I just finished reading the fourth book tonight for the first time and what a magnificent series it was. A wonderful pairing of calculated prose beautifully phrased and inspired imagination placed in a labyrinth of delirium. I can see the value in the repeated notion on these boards of gaining further insights on rereads and look forward to taking the journey again sooner than later. Despite having read many Sci fi and fantasy books I had never heard of The Book of the New Sun and that’s why boards like Fad are wonderful for shedding light on lesser known gems.

Thanks to everyone who asked here to be a part of the lottery. The recipients have now been notified.

Firstly, I must applaud >281 AHub: for your approach in dispersing your additional volumes.

I now find find myself, for the first time of buying from the Society, (and that is decades), of asking for a replacement for a damaged purchase.

I would just feel better if the Society could put in place a mechanism to return books, at no expense to the purchaser, or link up with a charity where one could donate slightly damaged volumes. I'm no expert in the second hand market but it seems the likes of Oxfam etc. have cottoned on to the possible value of FS books, and yes, I would like a charity to get a decent amount for a recent publication.

The Book of the New Sun SE is back in stock. I thought I would put it up for anyone who was not aware and was waiting for it come back.

>283 assemblyman:

Wonder if it's still done at C&C... If so, have they rectified the issues plaguing the first printing.

>284 adriano77: You could always ask. I’ve asked them a lot of random questions lately and have been getting good quick responses.

>285 RRCBS:

I'd get an answer for the first part, sure, but doubtful of the latter getting an honest and straightforward one.

>286 adriano77: I would say it is probably still the same printer. It would be more costly to move it to another one. In regards an answer on the second issue I can foresee a generalised answer on their intention to provide the best possible product. I want to buy it from this run but I can see the same issues arising again but hopefully to a lesser degree.

For what it’s worth, I got one of the last copies of the first printing. Arrived in pristine condition and overall excellent production, but yeah it’s the expected C&C pages. Not my paper of choice but I’m happy.