Current Catholic Issues

A new thread for posting news items and conversation about some of the current issues with which we find ourselves dealing within our church. Here are two, both from Vatican News.

Our Fathers: What is it like to be the child of a priest?

Coping International founder Vincent Doyle, himself the child of a priest, accompanies others in the same situation through a web site and now through a published book: ‘all for the Body of Christ’, he says...

Protection of minors: A balance is needed

As many churches in different countries prepare to mark a Day of Prayer for Victims and Survivors of Abuse, an interview with Dr Myriam Wijlens, a professor in canon law and member of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, highlights the ongoing work of the Church to ensure the safety and the protection and dignity of all...

Is the Vatican Finally Ready to Get Serious About Women in the Church? (New Yorker)

For more than fifty years, people calling for change in the Catholic Church have rooted their ideas in the Latin maxim Ecclesia semper reformanda. Attributed to St. Augustine and made familiar by the modern Swiss Protestant theologian Karl Barth, it means “the Church is always in need of reform.” It informed the liberalizing, modernizing Second Vatican Council, and, after the Council concluded, in 1965, became a credo for progressives such as Hans Küng, the Swiss Catholic theologian who believed that the Council hadn’t gone far enough. Twenty years later, under Pope John Paul II, it became a rationale for traditionalists seeking a sort of Counter-Reformation. In 2016, Pope Francis pushed back, stating that there will be no “reform of the reform,” at least not in liturgical practice. Now, with people in Rome anticipating the completion, after more than two years, of one of Francis’s signature initiatives—a reform of the Vatican bureaucracy, known as the Curia—the Latin maxim is back on the agenda. Many observers are waiting to see whether the Curia reform will change the Church’s approach to an issue that the decades of tumult, controversy, liberation, and reaction have left little altered: the role of women...

Each Catholic culture brews a controversy made to order (Crux)

Catholicism is a vast, riotously diverse global institution, counting 1.3 billion members scattered in every nook and cranny of the planet. As a result, Catholic experience is a constant interplay between the universal and the local, a few basic constants refracted and lived out in a stunning myriad of different milieu.

One of those constants, given that religion stirs people’s deepest passions, is that someone in the Catholic Church is always upset about something... However, precisely what upsets different Catholics at any given time often reflects features of their local cultures...

German Catholic clergy rebel against Vatican over same-sex unions (CNN)

The statement, signed by 266 theologians, said the ruling lacks "theological depth, hermeneutical understanding as well as argumentative stringency"... "A document that in its argumentation so blatantly excludes any progress in theological and human scientific knowledge will lead to pastoral practice ignoring it"... "We are here to bless, no matter how and no matter whom... We want to be an open church where everyone feels at home"...

We don't generally look to the Germans for good ideas or moral leadership.

>5 eschator83:

Who's "we"? Germany is recognised in many regards as a leader in Europe - indeed during the Trump presidency many pundits were suggesting that Germany was the new "leader of the free world". Germany is also widely admired for the way it has dealt with its legacy of Nazism. Germany has produced more than its fair share of philosophers, theologians, scripture scholars, musical composers, and outstanding Christian figures from Meister Eckhart and Hildergaard of Bingen to Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Edith Stein and Martin Niemöller, and most recently Pope Benedict XVI. I wouldn't dismiss them as casually as you do.

It seems sad that you would cite Eckhart, who was condemned, Benedict, who resigned. Perhaps that can suggest what you admire about Nazism?

>7 eschator83:

I would suggest we try to engage in conversations about issues without making unpleasant insinuations against each other.

I did not say that I admire Nazism. I said "Germany is widely admired for the way it has dealt with its legacy of Nazism". I hope it is clear from that sentence that it refers to post-war Germany's efforts to move on from that Nazi legacy and ensure that it doesn't happen again.

I don't believe that the pope's retirement negates all the good things he did as pope (and is still doing as emeritus), nor does it reflect negatively on him. It was a courageous decision.

As for Eckhart, when Timothy Radcliffe was Master of the Dominicans he is quoted as saying, "We tried to have the censure lifted on Eckhart and were told that there was really no need since he had never been condemned by name, just some propositions which he was supposed to have held, and so we are perfectly free to say that he is a good and orthodox theologian" (Meister Eckhart rehabilitated by the Pope).

But anyway, the moral leadership qualities of Germans is a diversion from the topic, so it's probably better if we leave it.

The cultural disarmament of progressive Catholic bishops (NCR)

Archbishop Charles Chaput, who retired as the ordinary of Philadelphia a little more than a year ago, has just published his latest book. The 76-year-old Capuchin is one of the leading American bishops driving "culture war" Catholicism in the United States... Archbishop Chaput and many of his views need to be challenged. But most liberal and progressive Catholics are just ignoring him. They do so at their own peril...

Küng reconciled with Vatican, says Kasper (The Tablet)

Swiss theologian Fr Hans Küng, whose right to teach was withdrawn in 1979 by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith(CDF), died reconciled with the Vatican, according to the former President of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity, Cardinal Walter Kasper. In a telephone call last summer (2020), when it was evident that Küng no longer had long to live, “Pope Francis asked me to convey his greetings and his blessings to him ‘in Christian communion’”, Kasper recalled. “Hans was overjoyed. It was important for him. He now felt reconciled with the Church and with Pope Francis”, Kasper told the Italian daily Corriere della Sera, the day after Küng died. Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI had also known how serious Küng’s condition was and was praying for him, Kasper said...

Germany's quiet Catholic rebellion on gay blessings and women preachers (BBC)

The German Church hierarchy is divided: liberal German bishops support some calls for reform, while conservative Church leaders back the Vatican's tough line. However, surveys indicate that individual German Catholics themselves tend to be more liberal than the Catholic establishment... There is no animosity between the two groups but they are both vocal parts of the Catholic Church with very different opinions...

One Year After George Floyd's Killing: Black Catholics Are Exhausted, Yet Hopeful (ACI Africa)

Father Boxie has become a sought-after speaker on the topic. The African American priest has presented not only to groups and parishes in the Archdiocese of Washington, where he serves as chaplain at Howard University, but across the country. “I’m happy to do it, but it gets exhausting,” said Father Boxie.

The fatigue the young priest speaks of isn’t primarily physical, but emotional. He says there is a real burden experienced in repeatedly sharing painful accounts of racism — be they historical, such as opposition to the 1965 episcopal ordination of Harold Perry in New Orleans on the grounds that he was Black, or personal, taken from Father Boxie’s own life.

Despite how tiring the work is, Father Boxie says that “it’s worth it” if it means helping others grasp Catholic teaching on the sin of racism. He’s encouraged by widespread engagement on the issue. “The fact that the conversation is still going almost a year after George Floyd was killed, that’s a sign of hope,” said Father Boxie...

Catholics question why Boris Johnson was able to marry in church (Guardian)

Catholics, including members of the congregation at Westminster Cathedral, have questioned why the prime minister was able to be married in a Catholic church following his two previous divorces.

Boris Johnson married Carrie Symonds at the cathedral in a ceremony with 30 friends and family on Saturday, planned in strict secrecy and reportedly carried out by Father Daniel Humphreys, who baptised their son Wilfred last year.

Symonds, who will be taking Johnson’s name, has spoken publicly of her Catholic faith, while Johnson was baptised into Catholicism but renounced it for Anglicanism during his Eton schooldays, according to biographers.
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Catholic law, which does not recognise divorce, usually does not permit the remarriage of those whose former spouse, or spouses, are still alive. Johnson was divorced from his first wife, Allegra Mostyn-Owen, in 1993, and finalised his divorce from his second wife, Marina Wheeler, in November last year.

Father Mark Drew, an assistant priest in Warrington, tweeted in response to the news: “Can anyone explain to me how ‘Boris’ Johnson, who left the Catholic church while at Eaton {sic} and is twice divorced, can be married at Westminster Cathedral, while I have to tell practising Catholics in good faith who want a second marriage in Church that it’s not possible?”

The rector of St Paul’s in Deptford, Father Paul Butler, tweeted: “Always one canon law for the rich and one for the poor.”

Christopher Lamb, Rome correspondent for the Catholic magazine the Tablet, said many might conclude that the rules do not apply to the prime minister. “There will be a feeling that, why are some people who are divorced allowed to be married in the church and others not?” he told BBC Radio 5 live.

“And I think that’s where the church can look at its current rules and see how it can become more welcoming. It has been welcoming to Boris Johnson, why not to others?”...

It was apparently a choice between this and beheading his previous wives...

>13 John5918:

If anyone actually wants the answer, it's canonical form (I.e. Boris was baptised Catholic, yet didn't marry previously in a Catholic Church, so old rules designed to stop clandestine marriages mean his earlier marriages don't count / are invalid).

Which is dumb (canonical form rules should be repealed), but its not special treatment in anyway, nor some particular mercy denied others.

>15 hf22:

Good to hear from you, Scott. Haven't seen you posting for a while.

I suppose the old saying applies: "Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done". And another literary cliche, "The law is an ass", or as you say about this particular canon law, "dumb".

“Formalities completed” before Twice-Divorced UK PM Wedding at Catholic Cathedral: Church (ACI Africa)

Church authorities said that “all necessary steps were taken, in both church and civil law,” ahead of twice-divorced British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s wedding at a Catholic cathedral in London on Saturday... A Westminster Cathedral spokesperson told the Sunday Times newspaper: “The bride and groom are both parishioners of the Westminster Cathedral parish and baptized Catholic... All necessary steps were taken, in both church and civil law, and all formalities completed before the wedding. We wish them every happiness”...

Fr. Mark Drew, a priest serving in the Archdiocese of Liverpool, asked how the wedding would be perceived by Catholics seeking a second marriage in church... He told CNA he accepted that the marriage was not contrary to canon law. “But in decisions of this kind the need to avoid scandal is paramount in Catholic tradition. In such high-profile cases, rather than showing herself more accommodating, the Church should set the bar higher,” he commented. He added that he was concerned about the kind of image that the Church was projecting. “I am seeing so many comments where sincere Catholics are feeling betrayed, and others from people hostile to the Church who are gleefully seizing another chance to bash it -- rightly or wrongly -- for what they see as its partiality to power and wealth,” he said...

I'm wondering about one formality which apparently was not done if this was a "secret" wedding. Isn't it normal to read the banns of marriage publicly at Sunday mass for three weeks before the wedding takes place?

>17 John5918:

Do they still require wedding banns in England? They got kicked out of universal Canon Law in 1983, though individual Bishop Conferences can still require them, but I don't know if England/Wales do that.

>18 hf22:

I'm afraid I'm out of touch with the UK. I haven't even been to visit for nearly two years, due to COVID. The place I attended Sunday mass most regularly before COVID was South Sudan, and there the banns are routinely read out.

Boris Johnson’s outdone Henry VIII in having his third marriage blessed by the Catholic church (Guardian)

The prime minister’s marriage to Carrie Symonds in Westminster Cathedral has left many Catholics with a question. If the mother church of the Catholic church in England and Wales can kill the fatted calf and welcome the twice-divorced prime minister as a prodigal son, why are so many other divorcees being turned away?

People are upset by what feels like double standards. Too often it seems church leaders are willing to bend over backwards to accommodate the powerful in ways the poorest, or those without influence, are simply not offered.

While the prime minister’s colourful record on marriage presents no impediment to a cathedral wedding, there are countless of other divorcees who have been refused a church marriage unless they get an annulment. Same-sex couples, meanwhile, were told by the Vatican recently that church blessings are impossible for them because God “cannot bless sin”.

According to church rules, the prime minister and his wife, who is a Catholic, were within their rights to be married in the cathedral. They got the green light because Johnson’s earlier marriages took place outside the Catholic church and without the necessary permissions. As he is a baptised Catholic, those marriages are invalid in the church’s eyes and he was free to marry. All of this is fine if you are comfortable with the intricacies of canon law, but to outsiders it looks like Mr and Mrs Johnson found a legal loophole...

A Catholic prime minister in No 10 is a watershed moment (Guardian)

It would have once been unthinkable, but Boris Johnson’s conversion to Catholicism shows how far we’ve come...

the issue that really merits attention is the significance of having a Catholic prime minister. In many ways, what is particularly noticeable is the lack of fuss about it. Once, given that the Church of England is the established religion of the country and that it was created following the break with Rome under Henry VIII, a Catholic prime minister would have been unthinkable. Even as recently as 2007, Tony Blair delayed his conversion to Rome until he had left office due to concerns that it would play badly in Northern Ireland.

Then there is the issue of the prime minister’s role in the Church of England. Under the Catholic Relief Act of 1829, “no person professing the Catholic religion” is allowed to advise the monarch on the appointment of Anglican bishops. Doing so would render Johnson guilty of a “high misdemeanour” and he would be banished from office. The likely solution is that the Lord Chancellor, Robert Buckland, will deal with the matter.

For Catholics themselves, whatever they may think of Johnson’s denominational somersaults, having a Catholic prime minister is a watershed moment... We really have come in from the cold...

A question of faith: Biden, Catholicism and the presidency (BBC)

Some bishops think America's second Catholic president should be denied the Eucharist. Are Biden's faith and job title an unworkable mix?

On the matter of faith, President Joe Biden is not shy. Each weekend that he is in town, he goes to Mass in Washington. A motorcade takes him on Saturday evenings or Sunday mornings to Holy Trinity, the church where President Kennedy, the only other Catholic US president, used to attend services. He makes the sign of the cross at public events, and his Catholicism is woven into his speeches and policies...

Liberal Catholics applaud Biden for his position on abortion while conservative ones denounce him...

Within the structure of the Catholic church, archbishops and local priests would make their own decision on whether or not to give the president, or any politician, the wafer at Mass, or to send them away. Father Kevin Gillespie, the pastor at Holy Trinity in Georgetown, welcomes the president, and so do those in the parish. They are following the wishes of Washington's archbishop, Wilton Gregory, who has made it clear that he does not believe priests should deny the Eucharist to the president. "We should be a church in dialogue, even with those with whom we have some serious disagreements," Gregory told the Catholic News Service...

Pope Francis Issues Restrictions on Extraordinary Form Masses of Roman Rite (ACI Africa)

Pope Francis issued a motu proprio on Friday restricting Masses celebrated in the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite. In the motu proprio, issued July 16, the pope made sweeping changes to his predecessor Benedict XVI’s 2007 apostolic letter Summorum Pontificum, which acknowledged the right of all priests to say Mass using the Roman Missal of 1962. In an accompanying letter to bishops explaining his decision, Pope Francis wrote: “In defense of the unity of the Body of Christ, I am constrained to revoke the faculty granted by my Predecessors. The distorted use that has been made of this faculty is contrary to the intentions that led to granting the freedom to celebrate the Mass with the Missale Romanum of 1962”...

Francis said that when his predecessors allowed the celebration of the Mass according to the form used before the reforms of Vatican II, they wanted to encourage unity within the Church. “An opportunity offered by St. John Paul II and, with even greater magnanimity, by Benedict XVI, intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities, was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church, block her path, and expose her to the peril of division,” he wrote.

The pope said he was saddened that the celebration of the extraordinary form of the Roman rite has become characterized by a rejection of the Second Vatican Council and its liturgical reforms. To doubt the Council, he said, is “to doubt the Holy Spirit himself who guides the Church.” Pope Francis added that a final reason for his decision was a growing attitude of “rejection of the Church and her institutions in the name of what is called the ‘true Church’”...

Time to put the 'catholic' back into the Catholic Church (NCR)

What does the reaction to Traditionis Custodes, Pope Francis' motu proprio restoring the restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass that existed before 2007, tell us about the necessity of the document? And what about the prospects for ecclesial unity that Francis cited as his rationale for taking this decision?

It is important to distinguish between those who simply found the antiquity of the old rite a comfort in a fast-changing world, or those for whom the traditional Latin Mass offered an aesthetic that served to mediate the divine, and those for whom the Tridentine liturgy was a kind of ideological statement displaying their opposition to the Second Vatican Council.

It is often easy to spot the latter group: They have websites. And those websites, in recent days, have been spewing venom that unwittingly demonstrates how necessary Francis' decision was...

Cardinal Kasper Responds to Pope Francis’ New Motu Proprio on the Mass (National Catholic Register)

Cardinal Walter Kasper has said he believes the “overwhelming majority” of Catholic faithful are firmly against the Traditional Latin Mass and that some of its adherents scandalize them by believing it’s the only true Catholic Mass and rejecting the Second Vatican Council “more or less in its entirety”... Cardinal Kasper said he believes some faithful who attend the older Mass have turned Benedict’s efforts at reconciliation into division, and so struck at the “very heart of the unity of the Church”...

“I grew up and was ordained long before the Second Vatican Council, but I never found a rupture between the post-Trent liturgy and the post-Vatican II liturgy... Vatican II brought a reform of the Latin rite in the same way that Trent had done... the heart of the so called “old Mass” is preserved also in the so-called “new Mass”...

"I know many people are scandalized when they come to St. Peter’s in Rome early in the morning and see that on many altars priests celebrating the “old Mass” without any altar boy and no participation of the faithful. They turn to the empty basilica and say: “Dominus vobiscum”, “Orate fratres” etc. Some young priests come and want to celebrate the “Latin Mass,” but they don’t know Latin, whereas the great majority of their parishioners prefer to have the Mass in their vernacular language, so this brings division and quarrels in the parish and people leave...

"they use this position in order to reject the Second Vatican Council more or less in its entirety. In this way, the good intention of Benedict XVI becomes turned to its contrary. What was intended to contribute to reconciliation is turned into division, which refers to the very heart of the unity of the Church, and many Catholics are scandalized about this..."

>23 John5918: ff

The future of the liturgy (Tablet)

The Pope has decided to end a 14-year-old experiment in permitting two forms of the Roman Rite to exist side by side. Largely overlooked amid the sound and fury is that he has restored responsibility for ensuring liturgical unity in the local church to the bishops...

The new ruling, “brings the question of the form of Mass under the guidance of the bishop. With Benedict XVI’s guidance, a priest could decide {to celebrate Mass in the Old Rite} without reference to the local bishop. With Pope Francis, it is the life of the local church that is so important.” Now it is the bishop that is once again in charge of the liturgy in his diocese, and is able to ensure it is a source of unity rather than discord. “The unity of that local church really matters"...

Does the Vatican have a secret deal with the Chinese communists?

>27 brone:

That seems like a strange question out of the blue. Could you give some background and context?

>27 brone: If you know about it i guess it's not so secret...

Very few know about it (lay Catholics that is), In May The Chinese Communist Party(CCP) arested a Vatican appointed Catholic Bishop, Joseph Zhang Weishu along with seven priests and a number of seminarians in the diocese of Xin Xiang disturbing but not surprising. What is surprising is that all but a very few Catholics have heard of the May arrests. Let us fast forward to just last week. "Finally Uncle Ted" former Cardinal McCarrick was charged with a felony namely a sexual assualt on a 16 year old boy. McCarrick wasn't just any cleric. He was Pope Francis's go to man in America,who also was a leading figure in the brokering of the now in-famous little understood Vatican China deal in 2018. Mc Carrick traveled to China numerous times staying at state run seminaries, acting as a bridge between Vatican and Chinese appointed bishops. As an outspoken proponent of a deal between President Xi and the Church under Pope Francis. He is quoted as saying, " I see a lot of things happening that would open many doors because of what President Xi and his Government are concerned about" McCarrick is also quoted as saying, "The similarities between The Pope and Xi could be a gift to the world", which brings us back to the mass arrests in May.You would think that Catholic leaders here would speak out more adamantly than anyone.In June the International Religious Freedom Summit was held in Washington D.C. Timothy Cardinal Dolon a keynote speaker stood up in front of the audience which included Chinese and Uyghur refugees from Chinese concentration camps and did not mention the word Chinese, (He had no trouble leading a gay pride parade in New York wearing a rainbow stole all in the name of human rights), and where was the modern day Fulton Sheen, Bishop Robert Barron, he was to busy making a video of his Hero Bob Dylan as a birthday present, So out of the blue the secret is also known by you... Pray for all the persecuted in China who wish to express their views without ending up in the Gulag...JMJ...Marty

>30 brone:

Thanks. Can you give us a link to your sources for some of that so that we can research it a bit in order to comment?

Although I was unaware of it as my focus tends to be Africa, I see it was reported in the Tablet, a widely read UK Catholic periodical, in May and again in June (here and here) and that the Holy Father "has called on Catholics worldwide to pray for Christians in China".

From the Tablet:

In 2018, China and the Vatican signed a two-year provisional agreement on the appointment of bishops; the Vatican said the aim was to unify the Catholic Church. The agreement was renewed in 2020. At the time the agreement was signed, Pope Francis regularized the situation of seven bishops who had been ordained without Vatican approval. No mention was made of the situation of so-called underground bishops, those who refused to register with the Chinese government. After the provisional agreement was signed in 2018, Anthony Lam Sui-ki, a senior researcher at the Holy Spirit Study Centre of Hong Kong, suggested a transition period was needed for Catholics from underground communities so that they can adapt to the new environment...

now-retired Pope Benedict XVI once described the underground church community in China as an unusual phenomenon, and now Pope Francis would ask underground communities “to surface” after a proper arrangement is made by the Chinese government...

Seems that both Benedict and Francis sought to regularise the "unusual" position of the Church in China, but the Chinese government has grown impatient with those who refused to participate? Transitions by their nature can be very difficult. But I'd need to read more to comment further.

Not sure why there is so much focus on McCarrick in your post, since he is now discredited. Also surprised that Dolan should be involved with gay pride as he is a noted hard line "conservative".

St. Dominic Can Teach Catholics How to Overcome Divisions: Dominican Leader(ACI Africa)

“Today we see that the Church, the body of Christ, is wounded by division and discord, and we see that,” {the Master General of the Dominican Order, Fr. Gerard Francisco Parco} Timoner, who was elected as the 87th successor of St. Dominic in 2019, told Vatican News.

“It is very painful to read sometimes Catholics writing against the pope, writing against the Church, as though they are not Catholics. That is very painful. And if the Church is the body of Christ, then the body of Christ is wounded by division, by discord.”

He continued: “Dominic actually tried to do something about that, because the order he founded, he gifted it with a communitarian form of government. It is not democratic, but communitarian, where it is an inclusive form of government, where discernment and decisions involve the brothers -- with different levels of responsibility, according to offices, yes... But we have this system of chapters -- a conventual chapter in a convent, a provincial chapter in the province, and the entire order, a general chapter -- where everyone has a voice. Everyone has one vote, including the Master of the Order. He has only one vote... And Pope Francis affirmed that this form of government is a synodal form of government that helps the order to adapt to the changing situation, to adapt its mission to the changing historical situation. And what is more important, we maintained communion, fraternal communion.”

Pope Francis praised the example set by St. Dominic in a letter in May marking the eighth centenary of the saint’s death in Bologna, Italy...

Global Times, 2/25/2016 A report on McCarrick's activities in China National Catholic Reporter. May 25, 2021, Seven priests numerous seminarians, and their Bishop arrested. Cardinal Dolon Lifesite news May 18th 2018, Dolon, Cuomo, the prime minister of Ireland and his boy friend in hug fest in St Patrick's Cathedral. Bishop Robert Barron Youtube May 24th 2021, Happy 80th Bob.

Catholic Archbishop in Peru Proposes Replacing Priests with Laity in Parishes as Pastors (ACI Africa)

The Archbishop of Lima last month presented his proposal to replace priests with lay people in parishes in the Peruvian capital. Archbishop Carlos Gustavo Castillo Mattasoglio said during a July 21 conference that he is asking the Vatican for permission for lay persons to be given the administration of parishes. The archbishop said that "there is a philosophy of the simple daily life of the people that we have to take up again." "I think that, as a Church, we are going to have to work hard to provide a Church closer to the people with greater equality," he continued...

Only as an exception "due to a shortage of priests” does canon law allow a bishop to entrust "the pastoral care of a parish to a deacon, to another person who is not a priest, or to a community of persons.” But even in these cases, the Code of Canon Law establishes that the bishop “is to appoint some priest who, provided with the powers and faculties of a pastor, is to direct the pastoral care”...

I once lived in a parish in the USA where the pastor was a laywoman, with priests from the nearby Catholic university coming in when needed to provide sacramental ministry. I think it was a good experience for all concerned.

Traditionis Custodes, referred to in some recent posts here, now has its own thread, here.

Vaccine skeptic US cardinal on ventilator after Covid diagnosis (Guardian)

Cardinal Raymond Burke, a staunch conservative in the US Catholic church who has emerged as a leading critic of Pope Francis and a vaccine skeptic, was placed on a ventilator just days after testing positive for Covid-19. “Doctors are encouraged by his progress,” the cardinal’s official Twitter account announced. Supporters were asked to “pray the Rosary for him”. The 73-year-old, who has frequently been seen maskless in Rome, where he lives, tested positive last Wednesday while visiting Wisconsin...

Last May, Burke spoke out forcefully against Covid-19 vaccines, saying: “It must be clear that vaccination itself cannot be imposed, in a totalitarian manner, on citizens.” He also said vaccines had been developed “through the use of the cell lines of aborted fetuses” and that “a kind of microchip needs to be placed under the skin of every person, so that any moment he or she can be controlled by the state regarding health and about other matters which we can only imagine”. Experts on health and misinformation have repeatedly debunked such conspiracy theories...

Cardinal Burke much like Cardinal Ratzinger is thought off ,as a cold cruel conservative caricature, anyone who knows and who has followed this man's pastoral career knows the good he has done. He has traveled the earth visiting health care facilities installing an image of the saintly Gianna Berreta Molla the astounding amount of baby girls born today named Gianna are a testimony to that wonderful women and Cardinal Burke. Yes it it true he has tangled with the Francis papacy, asking, "how is it possible that certain eternal teaching of the church can change". He has even been accused of leading a "rad Trad" schism. What calumny, He is and has always been a loyal son of the Church, It has been said, that he does not recognize the papacy of Francis what bold face lies, Now is the time to set aside vitriol and Implore The Immaculate Heart of Mary to intercede for this warm hearted pastor and save him for he has much more work to do...JMJ...Marty

>37 brone:

I add my prayers to yours for Cardinal Burke and for all who are suffering and dying from COVID. I pray also that he will now recognise the error of his prior stance on COVID and will use his public visibility and status to encourage others to take sensible precautions, including vaccination.

Getting Covid jab is an ‘act of love’, says Pope Francis (Guardian)

Video of pontiff urging vaccine take-up comes after scepticism from traditionalist cardinals...

The pontiff made his appeal in a video produced by the Vatican and the Ad Council, a non-profit US group that has previously made videos promoting vaccination against Covid. He praised the work of scientists for producing safe and effective vaccines. “Thanks to God and to the work of many, we now have vaccines to protect us from Covid-19,” he said in the video. “Vaccines bring hope to end the pandemic, but only if they are available to all and if we collaborate with one another.” Francis said being inoculated with vaccines authorised by competent authorities was “an act of love”. “Vaccination is a simple but profound way of promoting the common good and caring for each other, especially the most vulnerable,” he said. The pope has previously spoken about the importance of the Covid-19 jab, while emphasising that vaccinations must be distributed equally, especially to poor countries. The video is aimed at a global audience, and features bishops from the US and Central and South America...

Edited to add an important contribution from the Zimbabwean Catholic bishops' conference:

Worshipers “to be fully vaccinated” as Church Attendance Resumes in Zimbabwe (ACI Africa)

Those to participate in public worship will have received COVID-19 vaccination, the Bishop of Zimbabwe’s Chinhoyi Diocese has announced amid the easing of coronavirus restrictions in the Southern African nation. In a move that follows the August 11 Zimbabwean government directive that only fully-vaccinated people attend public worship, Bishop Raymond Tapiwa Mupandasekwa underscores the need to receive the COVID-19 vaccine. “We have received an invitation from the Government of Zimbabwe to reopen our Churches and begin to gather again for Church services yet on condition that the attendants be fully vaccinated,” Bishop Mupandasekwa says in a statement issued Tuesday, August 17. The Zimbabwean Bishop adds, “Only fully vaccinated priests will be allowed to celebrate (Holy) Mass with congregants”...

A Prelate reports that the faithful of China's `underground`Church "have felt abandoned by the Holy See". Archbishop Savio Hon Tai Fai, The Apostolic Nuncio to Greece told the A conference of US-China Catholic Association that Vatican diplomacy has discouraged the underground communities and encouraged the Bejing regime that "tightens control and pulls down crosses". This appraisal is particulary noteworthy because the Archbishop himself serves in the Vatican diplomatic corps....JMJ.... Marty

>39 brone:

Can you cite a source, please, so that we can read the whole article?

Prayers Continue for American Cardinal Hospitalized with COVID-19 Complications (ACI Africa)

Prayers for Raymond Cardinal Burke continue to pour in amid unconfirmed reports that his condition is improving...

And my prayers too.

As Francis visits Slovakia, international crowd celebrates Czech woman priest (NCR)

Just hours after Pope Francis addressed Catholics in Slovakia, more than 420 Catholics from all over the world gathered in an online event to celebrate Ludmila Javorova, the first publicly known woman priest ordained in the modern era. In 1970, Bishop Felix Maria Davidek ordained her to serve the underground church in Czechoslovakia, where communist leaders were killing and imprisoning priests, nuns and lay leaders...

On Aug 23 at a funeral Mass for a fallen police officer Mayor Lori Lightfoot a open lesbian married to her same sex partner who have one child was the first in line to receive Holy Communion the mass was said by Cdl Cupich....JMJ....Marty

I understand the Pope will not attend the conference in Scotland, but his Sec of State will, I had a dream he would lead the Vatican delegation in procession carrying the monstrance gleaming in the sun under a gold embroided canopy; banners, flowers, bells, the sense of adoration was born into the watching children's souls ingrained there for life. I awoke and do I hear someone talking about necessary evolution and new habits of life? In reality traffic problems do not prevent street demonstrations and their political demands whether just or not, A Corpus Christi procession would be criminal....AMDG....Marty

>44 brone: the monstrance gleaming in the sun

I don't think anything gleams in the sun very often in Glasgow because there is rarely any sun! But I believe Glasgow is still a very divided and sectarian city and a Corpus Christi procession in the wrong part of town might indeed lead to criminal violence. But aren't we a bit late for Corpus Christi? June, if I recall correctly.

The true threat in glasgow is not orange order, the threat comes from the universal dictatorships of humanistic ideologies. Anyone who contradicts this dictatorship is excluded from the basic consensus of society one hundred years ago anyone would thought it absurd to speak of homosexual marriage. Today those who oppose it are socially excommunicated. The same holds true for abortion and the production of human beings in the laboratory modern society intends to formulate an anti christian creed: who ever contests it is punished with social excommunication, being afraid of the spiritual power of the anti Christ is all too natural, and what is truly needed is that the prayers of entire dioceses and of the World Church come to the rescue and resist.....AMDG....Marty

Matthew quotes the following saying of Jesus; "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come"(24:14). And in Mark we read: "The gospel must be first be preached to all nations"(13:10). At once we see how much care must be taken with these discourses of Jesus; these texts are woven together from individual strands of tradition that do not put forth a straight forward linear argument but that must be read in light of one another. Hopefully the Vatican delegation at Glasgow preach to all nations present Christ's command....AMDG....Marty

>47 brone: these texts are woven together from individual strands of tradition that do not put forth a straight forward linear argument but that must be read in light of one another

Indeed. That's true of just about everything in our Tradition. It's almost always complex and non-linear. That's why we're not a fundamentalist or literalist church like many of the evangelical protestants, who interpret the bible literally line by line.

Coming to know and appreciate your intellectual prowess i'm curious as to your using a capitol T were I purposely used a small t.....JMJ.....

>49 brone:

Oh, I wouldn't claim any great intellectual prowess. I just see Catholic Tradition as a solid, albeit diverse and non-linear, body of teaching which somehow deserves a capital letter for itself. Not something I'd argue about, though. Tradition, tradition - it's the same Magisterium. I often think of the Tradition/tradition using a scriptural image, the vine. The mature vine consists of many strands, some bigger, some smaller, some more central, some more peripheral, some stronger, some weaker, some older, some newer, some which appear to fade out and then reappear again much later, some which even seem to compete for dominance, but all part and parcel of that same living and growing plant.

New Zealand Bishops agree to 'co-babtize' Lutherans and Catholics interchangeably.

>51 brone:

I think it's always useful to cite a source for such pieces of information. Are you referring to Lutherans and Catholics reach landmark Baptism agreement? This agreement seems like a welcome step forward. Catholics and Lutherans have been in dialogue about baptism (as well as eucharist, ministry, justification and other theological issues) for more than fifty years now, and have reached a remarkable level of agreement on most issues. For decades now the Roman Catholic Church has recognised the baptism of other mainstream churches such as Anglicans and Lutherans as valid, and if a person converts from one of these denominations we do not insist on rebaptism, nor even provisional rebaptism. As the article says, “Catholics and Lutherans both assert that through baptism a person becomes a member of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church".

Right to give last rites should become law after Amess death, MP says (Guardian)

Labour’s Mike Kane urges legislation after Catholic priest was denied entry to crime scene after MP’s stabbing...

Number of Catholics in Africa, Asia Continues to Rise, Newly Released Statistics Indicate (ACI Africa)

The number of Catholics in Asia and Africa continued to grow in 2019, according to newly released statistics. The world population grew by 81.3 million in 2019, while members of the Catholic Church increased by 15.4 million for a total of 1.3 billion Catholics worldwide...

While news coverage in recent years has highlighted the fall in Catholic priests being ordained in Europe and the Americas, the overall number of priests rose slightly in 2019 — by 271 — mostly due to a rise in priestly vocations in Africa and Asia, which offset decreases elsewhere... The number of men and women religious decreased in 2019. Women religious were down by more than 11,500. But lay missionaries increased by over 34,200, with the overwhelming majority of the new lay missionaries located in the Americas...

The number of Catholics in Africa grew by more than eight million in 2019, for a total of around 19% of the population, while in Asia, which has 4.5 billion people, Catholics make up just 3.31% of the population, at 149.1 million... around half of the continent’s Catholics are located in the Philippines...

Could it be true that the Anglican bishop of Rochester was discouraged to make his attempt to swim the Tiber? Not just a humble run of the mill econvert this guy, why 500 years previous Bishop John Fisher lost his head defending the faith from that very diocese. Now granted Michael Nazir Ali a Pakistani is no luminary like converts,lNeumann, Ronald Knox, Robert Hugh Benson, and Evelyn Waugh who converted ninety one years ago to the very day Ali converted, So why would the pope or any other ecclesial pest try to deflect a movement of conversion conceived and executed in Catholic terms-wish to discourage someone like that, Just rumors we hope.....AMDG....

Joe Biden meets with Pope Francis thursday, the Catholic System more than a few years past 2000 years. many in America doubt whether it is not dying. Will their be someone who will be as influential as Thomas Becket who resisted the overreach of his friend HenryII, Becket's heroic resistance prevented the assault of the Temporal Power against the eternal. To be blunt he saved the Church in England for four hundred years until another Thomas defended her against another Henry. Will Francis resist the fake Catholic "leader of the free world" let us pray he does. AMDG

>56 brone:

I think your analogy is a bit suspect. I doubt whether Biden will be trying to tell Francis what to do, nor to take over the Church, so the eternal power is in no danger from the temporal.

Vatican extends traditional All Souls' Day indulgences (NCR)

With the COVID-19 pandemic still underway and with restrictions on gatherings still in place in some countries, the Vatican has again extended the period of time when people can earn a plenary indulgence for visiting a cemetery and praying for the souls of the faithful in purgatory. Cardinal Mauro Piacenza, head of the Apostolic Penitentiary, a Vatican tribunal dealing with matters of conscience, said the indulgences traditionally obtained during the first week of November can be gained throughout the entire month of November, the Vatican announced Oct. 28...

"A moment of great joy": English Cardinal Ordains Ex-Anglican Bishop as Catholic Priest (ACI Africa)

English Cardinal Vincent Nichols on Saturday ordained a former Anglican bishop as a Catholic priest. The archbishop of Westminster described the ordination of Dr. Michael Nazir-Ali at an Oct. 30 Mass at the Church of Our Lady of the Assumption and St. Gregory, Warwick Street, London, as “a moment of great joy”... Nazir-Ali, the former Anglican bishop of Rochester, England, entered into full communion with Rome within the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham on Sept. 29. The personal ordinariate was created by Benedict XVI in 2011 for groups of former Anglicans seeking to preserve elements of their patrimony... Married with two children...

the following Anglican bishops have been received into the Catholic Church since 1992: Graham Leonard (London); Conrad Meyer; John Klyberg (Fulham); Richard Rutt (Leicester); John Broadhurst (Fulham); Edwin Barnes (Richborough); Keith Newton (Richborough); Andrew Burnham (Ebbsfleet); David Silk; Paul Richardson; John Goddard (Burnley); and Jonathan Goodall (Ebbsfleet). Many converts come from the Anglo-Catholic branch of the Church of England, which stresses Anglicanism’s Catholic heritage, but Nazir-Ali has long been associated with the evangelical wing...

Is it reasonable for a catholic to accept an evolutionary account of creation?

>60 brone:

As far as I am aware, the Catholic Church sees no contradiction between the scientific account of creation and the biblical. Science and religion answer different questions, and the bible was never intended to be a scientific textbook. We are not bible literalists like some evangelical protestant denominations.

Not sure whether this really constitutes "current", but I was struck by some of the descriptions of growing up Catholic (and of Irish extraction) in Glasgow in this reflection by one of my favourite comedians, Billy Connolly. I've never met the "Big Yin" although I did once see him at mass attending the ordination of his cousin in Glasgow. He's 78 years old, just 11 years older than me, so I still consider that his experience is relevant in that it formed many people of our generation, although he himself admits that things have changed now from what he describes.

Billy Connolly: ‘I’ve been scared my whole life’ (Irish Times)

My father wanted us to be brought up as Catholics. His mother Flora had grown up in a Catholic family, but she married Neil MacLean (from clan MacLean of Duart) who was a Protestant from the Isle of Mull off the west coast of Scotland. When they had children, it became a tug o’ war... Sectarianism was much more alive then. People nowadays don’t care all that much but, back then, if Catholic people married Protestants their family would never speak to them again. And if a Protestant got married in a Catholic church their parents wouldn’t come to the wedding. It was a tribal war. And it was a shame, because sooner or later the young married couple would have a child and the grandparents would be desperate to see it – but because of the upset over the wedding, the rift could never be mended...

The Irish . . . from whence I sprang – were very much under the thumb of the Catholic Church. They were all “God bless you” and had come to Scotland as very poor, potato famine immigrants. They were frowned upon. Glasgow was a very successful city. It looked upon itself as the second city of the British Empire. It was a great merchant city for tobacco, whisky and exports, and there were shipyards and steelworks. So, the people – while still working class – were comparatively well off. They looked upon themselves as successful, and the Irish as losers. To marry one of them was considered to be marrying below your station... My ancestors left Ireland in the time of the potato famine... They were starving. But they arrived in Scotland barefoot with nothing and had nowhere to go and were treated appallingly. Protestants didn’t want them. There used to be signs outside businesses saying: “Worker wanted. Irish need not apply”... Even my father – when he was old enough to apply for jobs – was greeted by “Apprentices wanted. Boys’ Brigade welcome”. That was a Protestant organisation...

The book of Genesis is not written in a literary style proper to a symbolic style or proper to an allegory, but from beginning to end in a style proper to history. Since the historicity of Genesis is the recording of the actuality of the events of the beginning of Human History which underline the fundamental dogmas of the Faith, Original Sin and Redemption. Catholic intellectuals have been persuaded by evolutionary propaganda. Pius X by a Moto Proprio "Praestantia Scripturae"in 1907 affirmed that Catholics who dissented from the decisions of the Pontifical Bible Commision would incur the guilt of grave sin....JMJ....

Seeing that Our holy Father is a big fan of the elite socialist Climate Con, It was intriguing to see how these globalists arrived at Glasgow, a lot of very sleek private jests, Sleepy Joe arrived in Europe in Air force One accompanied of course with fighter jet protection, charter jets for the fake news, C117s (largest plane in the world ) to carry bullet proof limos a huge Marine Chopper to take hear and there, plus 85 SUVs and limos for all the rest of his cronies all on the American taxpayers dime. Well he made us taxpayers proud almost falling of the stage in a photo op. No worry he didn't embarrass us to bad, he was sound asleep at the meeting. Joe is always a given to get the top boob award but wait the Brits are looking pretty goofey to, Bo Jo ,comb your hair will ya, Bo likens the Climate Con to a time bomb ticking away in a James Bond movie. Not to be outdone by the secular state The Archbishop of Canterbury compared anti climate con people to holocaust Nazis, He was quick to walk that one back. The last Brit shaking his ecco friendly finger at us through his palace window is none other than Prince Chuck. I didn't hear any thing said by the Chinese,Russian, Indian, Brazilian, delegations, you would think some one would mention their contribution to the Climate Change Con. After all They are the biggest polluters. Whats that really, those countries have nothing to do with this organization shouldn't they be fined or yelled at by Saint Joe. Ole Teddy Roosevelt would not be happy with these fakers what with the huge "carbon footprint" and hot air being foisted on good ole Bonny Scotland.....AMDG.....

>63 brone:

The book of Genesis is a collection of stories (including two different creation accounts). It is not a science textbook. Creation accounts are generally an attempt to answer metaphysical questions like "Who are we?" and "Where do we come from?" rather than provide detailed scientific accounts; indeed how could they provide a detailed scientific account in a pre-scientific age?

Questioning of the literal interpretations of Genesis goes back as least as far as St Augustine in his The Literal Meaning of Genesis completed in the 5th century:

if I make such a statement, I fear I shall be laughed at both by those who have scientific knowledge of these matters and by those who can easily recognize the facts of the case... Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for a nonbeliever to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of the faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehood on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although "they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion" (I Timothy 1:7)...

>64 brone: the elite socialist Climate Con

Could you explain what you mean by "the elite socialist Climate Con"?

It was intriguing to see how these globalists arrived at Glasgow

There I agree with you. There has been a lot of justified criticism of the carbon footprint of COP26. However thousands of people have travelled there by more sustainable means, including one group who walked from London, which is several hundred kms away. Ironically thousands of others were stranded at London's Euston Station when trains were delayed after a tree fell on the railway line. They took it in good spirit and found it ironic that their journey to the climate conference was delayed by the type of extreme weather events which are a very visible and increasing part of the climate crisis (Thousands of passengers left stranded at Euston Station after train journeys suspended (Guardian)).

The Archbishop of Canterbury compared anti climate con people to holocaust Nazis, He was quick to walk that one back

As you say, he was quick to recognise his error, retract it and apologise unequivocally. If only more people were willing to apologise when they made errors. But in fact he did not, as you claim, compare anyone to Nazis, he was in fact comparing global leaders who ignore the current impending disaster to those who ignored a different impending disaster in the 1930s (COP26: Archbishop of Canterbury apologises for 'Nazi' climate comments (BBC)). But it was an ill-advised comment and he quickly recognised it as such.

I didn't hear any thing said by the Chinese,Russian, Indian, Brazilian, delegations, you would think some one would mention their contribution to the Climate Change... After all They are the biggest polluters

I don't know what media you read, but their names come up often in the conversation on the climate crisis. You might be interested in this article: COP26: Biden attacks China and Russia leaders for missing summit (BBC).

Edited to add: India’s huge solar uptake has boosted climate goals, says minister (Guardian)

The staggering take-up of solar power in India has enabled the prime minister, Narendra Modi, to announce a more ambitious climate plan at the Cop26 conference in Glasgow...

(COP26: Archbishop of Canterbury apologises for 'Nazi' climate comments (BBC))>66 John5918:

Far better if he had thought it through before commenting. And this from the unelected mortal who makes decisions in the House of Lords .. .. ..

>67 Novak:

Agreed.

Scotus refuses to hear an appeal from a Catholic Hospital in Ca, The hospital refused to operate on a person who identifies with the Transgender Community. My only question here is why a Catholic Hospital, well you know where I am going with that, been accused of enough ranting lately...... On another current catholic note, A Frail looking Pope Francis visited and prayed at the graves of military veterans on All Souls Day, thank Holy Father for that....JMJ....

Why priestly studies now include a “detox” year (Aleteia)

Both St. John Paul II and Pope Francis have directed seminaries to offer a "detox" year before men begin priestly studies.

The last 50 years have painfully revealed many weak points in the Catholic Church’s preparation program for training men for the priestly vocation. Countless men have gone through seminary formation, are ordained to the priesthood, and then buckle under the influence of worldly temptation. This revelation prompted St. John Paul II to write in Pastores Dabo Vobis of the need to offer an additional year of formation... John Paul II’s request was put into a document published by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Clergy in 2016, supported by Pope Francis. This stage of seminary formation is officially called the “propaedeutic stage,” and is being adapted by dioceses and seminaries around the world...

includes a total spiritual “detox,” in order to prepare the prospective seminarian for their possible vocation... Besides fasting from their phones and the internet, the seminarians also went on a commerce fast, where they were not allowed to make purchases. The only day the men did not observe these fasts was Saturday, when they could call friends and family or buy things they needed. These sacrifices are meant to clean out any negative worldly influences that may be affecting the seminarian. Many men in today’s culture have an addiction to pornography, a habit which needs to be rooted out before a seminarian can progress on the road to the priesthood. Additionally, the Spirituality Year contains opportunities for “spiritual direction and counseling, as well as spiritual retreats, culminating with a 30-day Ignatian retreat... helping these men develop a relationship with Jesus Christ, before they move on to seminary studies. It is hoped that this new “detox” year will foster personal holiness among the candidates, ensuring that the past does not repeat itself.

The past always repeats its self let us pray when it does, it is treated with severity, not coverups and transfers....AMDG....

Anti life congress man Ted Lieu Ca. has stated, I dare any priest or bishop deny me communion at church. The Pope SEEMS to have sent the signal to not "politicize" the Eucharist even as he repeatedly refers to abortion as "murder" and "homicide" prior to friendly meetings with Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden both of whom profess to be devout catholics engaged in blatant violations of church teachings on unborn human life. Sections 2271-2272- of the catechism state "Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against Human Life"....JMJ....

>72 brone:

As far as I am aware Biden has not cooperated in an abortion, so excommunication would not apply. What he has done is recognise that as president of a secular democratic plutocracy rather than a theocracy he has no right to impose the doctrine of his Church on the whole population. If he were anything other than a Catholic, let's say a Muslim or a Seventh Day Adventist, would you be encouraging him to change the law so as to impose their doctrine on every US citizen including yourself?

" As far as I know Biden has not cooperated in an abortion" hmnn the banality is astounding. Mr Biden issued an order unwinding the Mexico City Rule, this rule prohibits US taxpayer dollars from flowing into NGO's that provide abortions, advocate to legalize and expand abortion counseling. As if the 60,000,000 babies we have slaughtered are not enough, lets slaughter them especially in So America and Africa. Margaret Sanger is dancing a jig over Biden's election, I suspect Dorothy Day, Flannery O'Conner, Dorothy Sayers would not agree. Biden supports aborting babies based on Sex, disability, and race, by a huge margin the babies aborted in the US are babies of "color." He opposes conscientious objection in other words He wants Catholic Hospitals to Cooperate in Murder. He opposes Pregnancy Center Alternatives. He supports abortions up to and including the time of labor. He speaks of abortion as "health care" as akin to getting a yearly flu shot, As far as him being a muslim or seventh day adventist if he were a lot more babies would survive the womb, but then again he is a devout Catholic and does not as far as you know cooperate in abortion....JMJ...

>7 eschator83:

Biden has made it quite clear that personally he does not support aborting babies, as you claim he does. However he cannot use his position as president to impose legislation based on the doctrine of his faith and against the wishes of the citizenry. Even if he wished to be a theocratic dictator, his party and the US legislature are unlikely to allow him to do so. Would you like to live under a theocracy or a dictatorship? I have lived under both.

Note that even former "Catholic countries" such as Ireland and Spain, where the Catholic Church used to have a great deal of control over legislation which at times verged on theocracy, have moved away from that position. Whereas in South Africa, for example, where many years ago the Church set up a Catholic Parliamentary Liaison Office which provided solid objective non-partisan holistic analysis and advice to an under-resourced legislature, based on Catholic Social Teaching and not on partisan politics, culture wars nor single issues, the Church has been able to influence a great deal of legislation for the good of the people and the nation.

You remind me of James Cagney a great tap dancer....AMDG....

>76 brone:

No, I don't dance. But a more interesting conversation for me would involve responses to the substance rather than throwaway one liners.

Pius xi promulgated the feast of Christ The King, it was the motto of his papacy. His encyclical in conjunction with this promulgation Guardra gesimo anno highlights the greed of international finance (capitalism) and the dangers of socialism/communism, Quas Primas officially established the feast of Christ The King, to combat anti clericalism in Russia, Mexico, Spain, and Germany. His orthodoxy was quite clear, "The union of Chritians can only be promoted by promoting the return to The One True Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it" this kind of talk makes many of today's Catholics uncomfortable, the same ones who welcome abortion advocates, practicing homosexuals, transgenders, same sex marriages, and non catholics to our alter rails. The feast of Christ the King is equally upsetting to the vast majority of Catholics who have been fed a steady diet of Unitarian liturgies. The feast of Christ the King trumpets sanguine Catholicism, Christ is presented as triumphant over the world,sin, and death. It proclaims Christ who mandates, "Go and teach" (Mt 28-19) if you don't "I will spew you out of my mouth"(Rev 3-16). Pius xi this pope's tone was uncompromising, resoundingly clear, no ambiguity with this priest, no accommodation to the Zeitgeist. This feast is unafraid to announce that Christ and His Holy Catholic Church alone are the hope of the world. My priest today the feast of Christ The King chose to speak of Pilate's deficiencies rather than Christ The King....JMJ....

>78 brone:

Thanks, yes, Quadragesimo anno is an interesting document, affirming and building on Leo XIII's Rerum novarum from forty years earlier, who "sought no help" from the political systems of the day (QA #10) as "a problem was being treated 'for which no satisfactory solution' is found 'unless religion and the Church have been called upon to aid'" (#11). As Pius XI recalls "the great benefits this Encyclical {RN} has brought to the Catholic Church and to all human society; to defend the illustrious Master's {Leo XIII, 'so noble and lofty' (QA #14)} doctrine on the social and economic question against certain doubts and to develop it more fully as to some points" (QA #15), he is effectively "scrutinising the signs of the times", as Vatican II's Gaudium et spes puts it three decades later (GS #4), and "summoning to court the contemporary economic regime and passing judgment" (QA #15).

These are inspiring words for every generation, including ours. Opposing political systems are not the answer; hence it makes no sense to engage in political "culture wars". Just as Pius XI critiqued the dominant political systems of his time, which happened to be capitalism and communism/socialism and found them wanting, we need to critique the dominant political system of our time, which is capitalism - all that now remains of autocratic communism is a few outposts, and socialism has been on the decline in much of the western world for quite a while. The Church has the answers, and as we scrutinise the signs of these our own times we can delve into our Tradition, and particularly our Catholic Social Teaching, to allow us to move beyond the existing political interests. But as you say, seeing beyond the futile "culture wars" and partisan political systems "makes many of today's Catholics uncomfortable".

Thanks for reminding us!

You welcome, you surprise me sometimes. with that being said let us re-enter the fray. Ad sacram communionem ne admittantur excommunicati et interdicti post irrogationem vel declarationem poenae aluque in manifesto gravi peccato obstinate perseverantes. We pray for the eternal salvation for the souls of Catholic politicians the President, Speaker of the house, Czar of the green deal, the 80 to 90 Catholic legislators in the House of Representatives all who promote, legislate, and enact laws contrary to the laws of Nature and therefore contrary to the laws of the Catholic Church....JMJ....

Since you have raised the topic of the Feast of Christ the King, let me post this Vatican News article about the Holy Father's reflection on the Kingship of Christ here rather than in the "Francis" thread.

Pope: the Kingship of Christ signifies truth, service, life

Pope Francis reflects on the Kingship of Christ on today's Solemnity of Christ the King, noting that Jesus came not to dominate, but to serve others. And Christians are called to do the same, seeking the truth of Jesus' boundless love who frees us from our weaknesses...

And from ACI Africa: Christ is Not Like Other Kings, He is a King for Others: Pope Francis

Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christ is “not like other kings, but he is a King for others”... Jesus’ kingship is “completely different” than that of worldly rulers. “His kingship is truly beyond human parameters. We could say that he is not like other kings, but he is a King for others,” he said... "His Kingdom is liberating, there is nothing oppressive about it. He treats every disciple as a friend, not as a subject,” he said. “Even while being above all sovereigns, he draws no dividing line between himself and others. Instead, he wants to have brothers and sisters with whom to share his joy”... “We do not lose anything in following him — nothing is lost, no — but we acquire dignity because Christ does not want servility around him, but people who are free”...

"A few outposts are all that remain of Communism" what a relief this revelation must be to the persecuted Christian and Muslim populations in China going on for over 70 years. The perplexing pact made between the Holy See and the CCP. The result of which accelerated the demolition of churches, arrests, and worse persecutions which of course is the result of making a pact with the devil (CCP). Now this remaining outpost of Communism has unleashed upon the World the CCP Virus ( which I'm sure progressive woke Catholics dutifully call Covid 19) that has killed hundreds of thousands bringing western societies to a stand still causing economical hardship to millions. In a short while the mamby pamby woke crowd will gather at the altar of the Commie god kowtowing and begging them to fill up their container ships with junk. The Olympics will be held in their utilitarian stadiums and the west will heap praise and prestige upon these butchers. But what do I know i'm dismissed by my own co-religionists as a "culture Warrior", Toxic Traddie, and reactionary. Our Lady off Victory (Lepanto 1571), Our Lady of Fatima (1917) pray for us.... AMDG....

>82 brone: "A few outposts are all that remain of Communism" what a relief this revelation must be to the persecuted Christian and Muslim populations in China

The fact that people are still being persecuted in China does not alter the fact that communism is no longer a significant economic and political ideology in the world in the 21st century and that we are no longer in a global contest between capitalism and communism as we arguably were for much of the 20th century. Neither can communism be blamed for most of the ills in the world, as it was during the Cold War. Capitalism is the dominant political and economic ideology, and needs to be critiqued as such. Criticism of the free market capitalist system does not imply a yearning to be like China. If you study Catholic Social Teaching you'll find that authoritarian communist regimes do not meet its criteria.

Now this remaining outpost of Communism has unleashed upon the World the CCP Virus

Currently the global scientific community and the US and UK intelligence services still have no definitive opinion as to exactly how COVID 19 began.

which I'm sure progressive woke Catholics dutifully call Covid 19

The whole world refers to the virus as COVID 19. That's its scientific name. Please don't try to politicise it by giving it a different politically-loaded name.

The Olympics will be held in their utilitarian stadiums and the west will heap praise and prestige upon these butchers

Far from heaping praise and prestige, there is a great deal of global criticism of the Olympics being held in China.

i'm dismissed by my own co-religionists as a "culture Warrior", Toxic Traddie, and reactionary

No, you are not "dismissed". I have always tried to engage rationally and respectfully with you on many of your opinions, although I feel you often respond with political slogans and throwaway one-liners rather than substance. Disagreement is not the same as dismissal. I have never actually called you any of those things because I try not to use personal attacks or labels, which are against LT's Terms of Service anyway; my apologies if I have inadvertently done so. I have commented that some of your statements appear to be consistent with the US "culture wars". I have no idea what a "Toxic Traddie" is. As for reactionary, well, it would appear that many of your opinions are a bit reactionary, just as many of mine are a bit progressive. I try to comment on what you post, not on you personally. Thank God for diversity within our Catholic (universal) Church.

The Second Advent of Jesus at the End of time(1st Sunday of Advent) sounds contradictory The beginning of the liturgical year warns us to be ready for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect(mt 24:37-44) Protestants: often very interested in these topics a. Tribulation and the Antichrist, b. The so called "Rapture" (a false doctrine). Catholics on the other hand are very often vague about what will happen at the end of time a. Jesus will come back and judge the world really ok. b.anything else we should know? I think the message of the Last Judgement calls men to conversion While God is still giving them "the acceptable time,....the day of salvation." A very happy Thanksgiving day (Thursday) to those who observe it. ....JMJ....

>84 brone:

Thanks for reminding me. A happy Thanksgiving to those of you across the Pond and any others who observe it.

The Jesuit Father DeBrebuff statue was removed from the Catholic University of America because he dared to try to convert Indians. In his place hanging in the law school is a picture of Our Lady Holding the body of a dead Jesus how wonderful you say. the face of Jesus just happens to be Saint George Floyd, have to think about the yearly contribution to CU....JMJ...

>86 brone:

I've never heard of Saint George Floyd. Could you elaborate, please?

Astoundingly candid bishop says Catholic Church is a shattered remains of its former self (La Croix)

German Bishop Heiner Wilmer, who is reportedly close to Pope Francis, has claimed that the Catholic Church has "utterly gambled away" people's trust in the institution by the way it has mishandled the clergy sex abuse crisis. "Protecting the institution and the perpetrators was always the most important factor for the Church. (Protecting) the victims, on the other hand, simply did not occur," said the 60-year-old Bishop Wilmer, head of the northern German Diocese of Hildesheim...

>87 John5918: Here:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/catholic-university-of-america-hangs-painting...

Again, a hateful reaction to something beautiful and inclusive. It is titled “Mama” for Floyd’s last words. Here I’m hoping that he is resting in the bosom of the mother of us all. And doesn’t the church teach that we are to see Christ in every person?

The painting has already been stolen.

>89 2wonderY:

Ah, thanks. Nice painting, and nice idea. Along the same lines perhaps as a sculpture that made headlines a couple of years back which depicted Jesus as a homeless person sleeping on a park bench. It reminds us of the preferential option for the poor and marginalised. As you say, Christ in every person.

"Hateful reaction" my reaction to St George is to highlight the foolishness of the mamby pamby progressive left. The said painting should have been of peaceful George holding a gun to the abdomen of a pregnant woman threatening to kill her and the baby within her to pay for the meth and fentanyl he was juiced up on. He spent five years in prison for that crime, A career criminal George surely was up until the day he was martyred, the sleeping Jesus as you might guess does not impress me but at least his face is covered up no telling what criminal is hiding in all that cement....AMDG....

>91 brone:

I'm confused by your constant references to "St" George. The only St George I know is the patron saint of England, and it's doubtful whether he ever actually existed. If your use of "St" to refer to George Floyd is sarcasm, it falls flat. I don't know much about his background, but having committed a crime and served his time in gaol does not make him a "career criminal", but maybe you have more information than I do on that one. But then a lot of the people that Jesus used to hang around with were the "career criminals" of their day - corrupt local officials (tax collectors), prostitutes, lepers (in a time when people believed that leprosy was a God-sent punishment for sins), foreigners. It's always been an old Catholic adage that we should condemn the sin, but love the sinner. And whether Floyd had a criminal record or not doesn't affect the discussion on whether the police killed him lawfully or unlawfully. Neither does it alter the fact that a human being created in the image and likeness of God, in whom we are taught to see the face of Christ, was violently killed.

foolishness of the mamby pamby progressive left

Sorry, but I find that a fairly meaningless statement in a thread on "Catholic issues". There is a Pro and Con group on LT for pejorative political slogans.

Sorry about the word left I should have used the word Catholic. And your right it is blasphemous of me to call our new lord and savior as he is depicted at CU as St George...AMDG....

>93 brone:

Sorry, my friend, but I feel that response is as meaningless as the one I originally commented on. As you raise the issue of blasphemy, don't you think your dismissive use of "our new lord and savior" could be construed as a little blasphemous? Couldn't we just have friendly, courteous and charitable conversations about Catholic issues, including those on which there is disagreement, without the sarcasm, pejoratives, political slogans, etc?

“ White Jesus could be modeled on Cesare Borgia. The theory is that people were generally not too enthusiastic about the Catholic Church’s regular massacres of Jews and Muslims, because the people they were killing looked like Jesus. Pope Alexander VI then ordered the destruction of all art depicting a Semitic Jesus and commissioned a number of paintings depicting a Caucasian Jesus. His son, Cardinal Cesare Borgia, was the model for these paintings. Thus, the nastiest of all the Borgias, became the iconic Caucasian Jesus worshipped by Christians today.“

https://earthlymission.com/the-real-face-of-jesus/

There’s a wide variety of cultural, political, theological etc. factors in choosing a model for images of Jesus Christ.

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/07/conversation_white_jesus.php

>95 2wonderY:, >96 2wonderY:

Thanks, Ruth, for leading us in this direction. I think a lot of people in Europe and north America forget that not only was Jesus not a European, but that non-western churches have been producing images of him for centuries which do not match the Italianate pictures that we may have grown up with. The Ethiopian churches, for example, have a rich history of murals and tapestries depicting scenes from the bible with Ethiopian images, both of the people (including Jesus) and the lifestyle. As you say, there are a host of factors in choosing a model for images of Jesus. I would say inspiring and teaching are two of them. Far easier to do both of those with images which people can relate to rather than with alien images which mean nothing to them.

With the focus on the theologies of inculturation and incarnation which have come to the fore since former missionary territories (eg in Africa and elsewhere in the Global South) became fully fledged locally-led indigenous churches, the question of images has been given new impetus. For several decades now images of biblical scenes set in an African context, with African Jesus, Mary, apostles and other figures interacting in African villages, have been commonplace in Catholic and other churches. The historical Jesus was indeed of semitic appearance, but the Christ, the Alpha and Omega, the Logos, the Eternal Word who was there from the beginning (John 1:1) and who will be there to the end, is not confined to a particular historical human form. The Word is incarnated for and into all cultures and peoples, so there is a good theological argument for different depictions for local circumstances. Deo gratias!

Edited to add: One of the Catholic pioneers in producing African images for catechesis was the Lumko Pastoral Institute in South Africa, founded in 1962. I can't find any examples on Google (probably using the wrong search terms, as usual!) although I have found a brief history of the institute. The abstract says: "The Lumko Pastoral Institute of the Southern African Catholic Bishops' Conference has had a major influence on the development and formation of the laity in the church. This influence has spread particularly throughout Anglo-speaking Africa and Asia. This short book traces the beginnings of a new movement in the Catholic Church in South Africa and how this movement spread worldwide through the Institute's many formation books" and, one might add, posters. But Google does throw up many examples of the African Bible and some of the images contained in it.

While on the topic of images, in this case metaphorical images of God rather than physical images of Jesus, Franciscan Fr Richard Rohr today shared a reflection by Benedictine Sr Joan Chittister.

What Kind of God Do We Believe In?

In the long light of human history, then, it is not belief in God that sets us apart. It is the kind of God in which we choose to believe that in the end makes all the difference. Some believe in a God of wrath and become wrathful with others as a result. Some believe in a God who is indifferent to the world and, when they find themselves alone, as all of us do at some time or another, shrivel up and die inside from the indifference they feel in the world around them. Some believe in a God who makes traffic lights turn green and so become the children of magical coincidence . . . . Some believe in a God of laws and crumble in spirit and psyche when they themselves break them or else become even more stern in demanding from others standards they themselves cannot keep. They conceive of God as the manipulator of the universe, rather than its blessing-Maker. . . .

I have known all of those Gods in my own life. They have all failed me. I have feared God and been judgmental of others. I have used God to get me through life and, as a result, failed to take steps to change life myself. I have been blind to the God within me and so, thinking of God as far away, have failed to make God present to others. I have allowed God to be mediated to me through images of God foreign to the very idea of God: God the puppeteer, God the potentate, God the persecutor make a mockery of the very definition of God. I have come to the conclusion, after a lifetime of looking for God, that such a divinity is a graven image of ourselves, that such a deity is not a god big enough to believe in. Indeed, it is the God in whom we choose to believe that determines the rest of life for us. In our conception of the nature of God lies the kernel of the spiritual life. Made in the image of God, we grow in the image of the God we make for ourselves. . . .

Until I discover the God in which I believe, I will never understand another thing about my own life. If my God is harsh judge, I will live in unquenchable guilt. If my God is Holy Nothingness, I will live a life of cosmic loneliness. If my God is taunt and bully, I will live my life impaled on the pin of a grinning giant. If my God is life and hope, I will live my life in fullness overflowing forever. (Joan Chittister, In Search of Belief, Liguori Publications: 1999, 20–21, 22).

Rohr touched on the same issue a couple of days back:

Creating God in Our Own Image

Your image of God creates you—or defeats you. There is an absolute connection between how we see God and how we see ourselves and the universe. The word “God” is a stand-in word for everything—Reality, truth, and the very shape of our universe. This is why good theology and spirituality can make such a major difference in how we live our daily lives in this world. God is Reality with a Face—which is the only way most humans know how to relate to anything. There has to be a face!

After years of giving and receiving spiritual direction, it has become clear to me and to many of my colleagues that most people’s operative image of God is initially a subtle combination of their mom and dad, or other early authority figures. Without an interior journey of prayer or inner experience, much of religion is largely childhood conditioning, which God surely understands and uses. Yet atheists and many former Christians rightly react against this because such religion is so childish and often fear-based, and so they argue against a caricature of faith. I would not believe in that god myself!

Our goal, of course, is to grow toward an adult religion that includes reason, faith, and inner experience we can trust. A mature God creates mature people. A big God creates big people. A punitive God creates punitive people.

If our mothers were punitive, our God is usually punitive too. We will then spend much of our lives submitting to that punitive God or angrily reacting against it. If our father figures were cold and withdrawn, we will assume that God is cold and withdrawn too—all Scriptures, Jesus, and mystics to the contrary. If all authority in our lives came through men, we probably assume and even prefer a male image of God, even if our hearts desire otherwise. As we were taught in Scholastic philosophy, “whatever is received is received in the manner of the receiver.” ¹ This is one of those things hidden in plain sight, but it still remains well-hidden to most Christians.

All of this is mirrored in political worldviews as well. Good theology makes for good politics and positive social relationships. Bad theology makes for stingy politics, a largely reward/punishment frame, xenophobia, and highly controlled relationships.

For me, as a Christian, the still underdeveloped image of God as Trinity is the way out and the way through all limited concepts of God. Jesus comes to invite us into an Infinite and Eternal Flow of Perfect Love between Three—which flows only in one, entirely positive direction. There is no “backsplash” in the Trinity but only Infinite Outpouring—which is the entire universe. Yet even here we needed to give each of the three a placeholder name, a “face,” and a personality.

1. For example, see Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae I, q. 75, art. 5.

Adapted from Richard Rohr, Yes, and . . .: Daily Meditations, Franciscan Media: 2013, 2019, 63–64.

Elsewhere Rohr writes some very good stuff on the Trinity, including in his books The Divine Dance: The Trinity and your transformation and The universal Christ : how a forgotten reality can change everything we see, hope for and believe. The title "Universal Christ" brings me back to >97 John5918:, and also reminds me of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's Cosmic Christ.

I would not believe in that god myself!

I can well remember when I reached that point in my own spiritual journey thirty years ago, during a crisis of faith brought on by what I have since recognised as PTSD. My spiritual director at the time, an elderly nun whose prime image of God was "Beloved", had led me through a process of exploring and recognising my own operative images of God until I reached the point where, like Rohr, I could say, "I don't believe in that God!" Her reaction was one of joy and excitement, which surprised me at the time. "Good! Now we can begin exploring the God that you do believe in!"

Sorry for such a long post!

There were three Borgia popes one bad, one a couple nepotism cardinals, but otherwise pretty good, third one as good as any in my life....JMJ....

Richard Rohr would give me PTSD just going to one of his "retreats" in the desert would make me a little skeptical of his theology, he boasts,"oftentimes men will strip naked and jump through the fire. I know some of you have been out there and seen it happen, so you know what i'm talking about.Always, always there's some hard wired guys, they'll strip and have to leap over the fire, burning their b...s". You can't make this stuff up.Another beautiful quote from hootenanny retreat center is " Grace is inherent to creation from the very beginning" no less than five popes have condemned this heresy PiusV, ClementXI, PiusVI, PiusX,PiusII....AMDG....

>100 brone:

Could you cite a reference for those two quotes from Rohr, please? I'd be interested to see their context. But like you, I wouldn't really fancy that type of retreat. My preference for a retreat is a personal private silent retreat with a spiritual director. Since I did the thirty day retreat nearly thirty years ago I've lost my taste for preached group retreats.

Edited to add: Isn't Google wonderful? I've just found the exact words that you quote on jumping over the fire on a "conservative" website in a piece which is obviously antagonistic towards Rohr, although to their credit they do at least quote a bit which you omit: "This is not part of my agenda that they're supposed to", but apparently it happens spontaneously with some of the men when they're spending time in the desert. See https://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2007/09_10/2006_01_23_Abbott_PriestThe...

On Rohr's theology generally, as far as I know he has never been formally censured for it, and I believe he is in good standing with the Franciscans. There has always been "loyal dissent" within the Church, especially emanating from religious orders (Cluny is one that comes to mind from my distant memories of studying Church history), often leading to reform. I've read a number of his books and his online daily reflections, and I think it's worth looking at the whole body of his life, work and writings rather than cherry-picking odd fragments from hostile websites.

Fr Rohr has not been called out on the carpet because no one has or very few have which is not to say that he has no detractors he has plenty. What i've read of him he has a problem with the Churches teaching on sin. He redefines it based on eastern mysticism based on a theorem a path to enlightenment He like all progressives or as you say loyal dissenters introduces ambiguity into the doctrines of Christianity his approach is gnostic and does not promote Christian Spirituality.... AMDG.... Stephanie Block noted Catholic artist quotes Fr Rohr about his cumbya retreats in "color outside the line"

>102 brone: Fr Rohr has not been called out on the carpet because no one has or very few have which is not to say that he has no detractors he has plenty

Of course we all have detractors. I do. You do. But nothing that Fr Rohr has said or written has been condemned by the Church. Perhaps the fact that "no one has or very few have" is a sign that the Church is maturing in self-confidence? It must have been a very fearful and insecure Church which felt it had to censure and censor theologians' attempts to explore, develop and better understand the doctrine of the Church.

eastern mysticism

Interesting how we interpret his work differently. I'm always struck by the centrality of the Trinity in his thought.

like all progressives or as you say loyal dissenters introduces ambiguity into the doctrines of Christianity his approach is gnostic and does not promote Christian Spirituality

There's quite a few generalised assumptions there. But I wouldn't say "loyal dissenters" are only found amongst "progressives". There are plenty of "conservatives" who like to challenge the teaching and praxis of the Church.

Stephanie Block noted Catholic artist

Noted? I had to Google quite a bit to find her, and most of the links are to her "conservative" opinions rather than art. Could you say something about her for our enlightnement?

Block has been out there for years yep she is a conservative Catholic without quotation marks, does her "conservative" opinions somehow negate Rohr's retreatists getting their private parts roasted....AMDG.... The Bishop of theOyo diocese has criticized the US decision to exclude Nigeria from the list of nations the US says violates religious freedom.We are not surprised here in America under this regime we now have and worry now for our own religious freedom....JMJ....

>104 brone:

For the record I often use quotation marks for labels such as "conservative" and "progressive" because I believe such labels have limited value. Very few people can be pigeon-holed into a single such label; most of us are on a spectrum of views. I note that these labels often seem to be used pejoratively, without much sign of charity. I think there are also cultural issues at play. In a country such as the USA it may seem as if the people one labels "conservative" share a whole set of views which are different to those one labels "progressive", and ne'er the two shall intersect. In Africa, it seems to me that many of our bishops could be called "conservative" in terms of their theology but "progressive" in terms of their commitment to Catholic Social Teaching and pastoral praxis, a combination which would probably be much rarer in countries suffering from "culture wars".

As the Holy Father said recently (see #194 in the Francis thread in this group), "the Church is not a political organization with left and right wings, as is the case in parliaments". We are Catholics, we are all sinners, and we are all sisters and brothers, even if we disagree on some issues.

A design for the "redo" of Notre Dame (1 billion contributed) includes all classical sculptures, "confessional boxes", and altars will be replaced with modern art murals and quiet emotional spaces such imagination (I bet archbishop Pags hair dresser and the modern artist who depicted George Floyd as Jesus are looking for a commissions). This Masterpiece of Gothic art will now resemble a protestant mega church why not my Cathedral reminds me of a hockey rink. Hopefully they won't rename it but ya never know with this crowd, The basilica of Walt Disney....JMJ....

>106 brone:

Since you don't provide any references, I've googled and come up with a couple of articles:

Controversy over Notre-Dame restoration reignites as plans for "Disney" interiors emerge

Catholic church's proposed redesign of Notre Dame interior provokes outrage

They point out that "president Emmanuel Macron confirmed that the spire would be rebuilt exactly as it had been before the fire" and that "The proposed changes relate mostly to parts of the cathedral that were left relatively unaffected by the fire, with the damaged elements still set to be restored to their former state."

As to some of the internal changes, "Father Drouin, the director of the liturgical institute of Paris... has denied the proposed overhaul of Notre Dame is radical. 'For eight centuries, Notre Dame de Paris has undergone constant evolution and the Church intends to renew the tradition of commissions to living artists,' he says... he defended the plans to welcome visitors 'who are not always from a Christian culture', adding that Notre Dame observed more visitors from China lit candles in a chapel dedicated to a Chinese martyr after explanatory texts in Mandarin were installed." Many popular cathedrals throughout the world have to had to adapt to some extent to large numbers of visitors, and many ancient churches have made tasteful and sensitive adaptations to facilitate the changes in the liturgy since Vatican II. A church is not simply a museum.

The "outrage" appears to be from architects, not from Church authorities or liturgists, quoted in "the British conservative newspaper The Telegraph", not really noted as a bastion of Catholic values.

I can't find any reference to renaming it - perhaps you can cite a reference for "The basilica of Walt Disney" which you mention? I'm also not sure to whom you are referring when you say, "this crowd", nor why you think a "hair dresser" might be looking for a commission.

Talking of old cathedrals, one of my favourite cathedrals of all time is an Anglican one, Durham Cathedral in north-east England, associated with Saints Cuthbert and Oswald, and the Venerable Bede, and now close to a thousand years old. I know it well as I lived in its shadow for three years when I was at university there nearly half a century ago. It was of course a Catholic cathedral for centuries before it became an Anglican one.

The reference in the articles linked in >107 John5918: to "new light effects" reminds me of some recent photos of Durham Cathedral during a "lumiere" exhibition. Far from detracting from the original architectural masterpiece, I think the lighting display draws attention to and enhances it, and adds to the sense of sacred mystery. It also attracted a huge number of visitors to this ancient place of worship. All the following photos were found via Google. A mate of mine posted some superb photos of his own on Flickr but I don't know how to share those.

Ave Maria, Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Paul tells us today that God our Father has blessed us in heavenly places, He chose us before the foundations of the world, Who has predestinated us unto the adoption of children: through Jesus unto himself: according to the purpose of his will: (Eph 1:3-6)..... Speaking of conception let us ponder this, do we not agree on informed consent this concept holds up in any court in the US.Except for the unborn child, overturning Roe seeks to right that wrong and restore to the child the presumption that it does not want to be killed. The court heard a unique case from Mississippi this week that could be the catalyst to overturning Roe. Of course in their last ruling three justices could have ruled to end abortion but hid behind stare decisis falsely concluding that the more unpopular the decision is the firmer the court should be in not departing from Precedent, We shall see in June....AMDG....

Speaking of Our Lady tomorrow is the great feast of Our Lady of Loreto which coincides with the ancient feast of the Translation of the Holy House of Loreto the great relic of christian antiquity "is the first sanctuary of international importance dedicated to the Virgin Mary and for many centuries the true Marian Heart of Christianity" JPII....JMJ....

Great post, many thanks for the reminder, the feast isn't in our older calendars, but the basilica near Ancona, Italy is magnificent, and to stand in devotion to Our Holy Mother and the House of Nazareth was an unforgettable experience. I pray all who read this and are not familiar with this memorial will search for more information on the web. I'm on my way now to see if I can find a book about this.

Thanks for these two posts. Makes me think of the Loreto Sisters, also known as the Institute of the Blessed Virgin Mary, who do such great work in education. They are named after the Marian shrine at Loreto where their founder Venerable Mary Ward used to pray.

A free copy of the book The Miracle of the Holy House of Loreto, may be obtained for free at the America needs Fatima web site....AMDG....

in 1524 Cuguhtiatoatzin a recent convert was hurrying to celebrate the Feast of the Immaculate Conception when Our Lady met him instead. Juan Diego (glad they gave him a new handle). Mary introduced herself to Juan in the Aztec dialect as the "ever perfect Holy Mary who has the honor to be the Mother of the true God". " I am your compassionate Mother, yours and all the people that live in this land. and also of all the various lineages of men" Her request of Juan we have heard before, " build a sacred little house here and dedicate it to my son Jesus Christ". This little house was built over an Aztec pagan temple that would "show him" to all Mexicans and "exalt him" throughout the world. Today this "little house" I believe is the 2nd most visited Christian shrine in the World....JMJ....

Free book " Miracle House" America needs Fatima web site

Two different stories about our Church. The first unfortunately will probably draw more attention, but the second is more representative of the Church that I have experienced in Sudan and South Sudan. Thank God for these courageous bishops and priests.

Spanish bishop who married author of satanic erotica is stripped of powers (Guardian)

Spain’s youngest bishop has been stripped of his church powers, the country’s episcopal conference said on Saturday, after he married a psychologist-turned-author of satanic erotica. “As is publicly known, Bishop Xavier Novell Goma, bishop emeritus of Solsona, has contracted a civil marriage with Ms Silvia Caballol, on 22 November, 2021 in the town of Suria, in the province of Barcelona,” the conference wrote in the statement. Any cleric attempting to get married, even if only civilly, is subject to suspension, the statement added... Novell became Spain’s youngest bishop when he was appointed to Solsona in 2010 aged 41, and was a highly regarded conservative who reportedly endorsed gay conversion therapy and practised exorcisms...

The priests navigating Colombia's conflict zones (BBC)

In Colombia's conflict zones, clergy like Bishop Barreto play a different role than ones in sleepy suburban communities. They often work on the front lines of the most dangerous zones in Latin America. In remote areas like Chocó, they fill the voids left by the state, document the conflict, and use their role to pressure authorities and armed groups. "We go where the local authorities don't," says Bishop Barreto... in zones where activists face constant violence, religious leaders like Bishop Barreto tend to enjoy a certain level of protection which allows them to travel to areas too dangerous for others to traverse. "They speak to the groups and say 'give this kid back to his mother' or 'don't kill that person'," Ms Sánchez says. The priests tend to act as arbiters, "and the groups tended not to kill them, at least not on purpose"...

Father Palacios joined the priesthood at a time of great conflict in Colombia and he soon found himself travelling the river to recover bodies from areas where armed groups banned others from going. He would help people escape the clutches of armed groups and escort hundreds of villagers fleeing the violence which blighted the area. "Being a part of the Catholic Church gives you a certain protection, but it's not absolute," Father Palacios says. "Your life is always at risk, you are always a thorn in the side of these armed groups." But he continues to visit to communities like the one he grew up in, documenting what is happening and raising the alarm about human rights abuses...

The first unfortunately meaning the Immaculate Conception I take it is not as important as the indigenous Mary to me they are the same Mary. Or am I not translating your ambiguity right. I agree with you about the bishops and priests in the Sudan their courage is inspiring. Especially when dealing with the silence from the Vatican on the wide problem of persecution of Christians as far back as 2014 with the scourging and sentencing to death of Mariam Ibrahim for marrying a non Muslim, It took the US to save her, not a word from the Vatican. The indifference of the Vatican to the sufferings of Christians under islamic Sharia law is shameful....JMG....

Cardinal Appiah Turkson reportedly resigns (3News)

Vatican-based Cardinal Peter Appiah Turkson has written to Pope Francis not to continue to serve as Prefect of the Dicastery for the Promotion of Integral Human Development, multiple sources say. The Ghanaian was appointed the first head of the Dicastery by Pope Francis in 2016. Before then, he was the President of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace... Pope Francis’s merging of the pontifical councils of Justice and Peace, Cor Unum, Migrants and Travelers, and Health Care Ministry is said to have created management challenges... It is unclear what reason is behind the Ghanaian’s decision, if confirmed likely Thursday, December 23 at the traditional meeting for Christmas greetings with the Curia. But sources say it may be because of the managerial challenges...

Reports of Vatican-based Ghanaian Cardinal's Resignation "credible": Vatican Insiders (ACI Africa)

Cardinal Peter Turkson's tenure as prefect of the Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development may be coming to an end. Various Vatican sources told CNA that a recent report by a traditionalist blog claiming that Turkson was set to resign is "credible"... The news of the possible resignation comes at what seems to be the eve of the finalization of the reform of the Curia, and just a few months after Pope Francis had ordered an inspection in the dicastery... Other Vatican sources told CNA that a house cleaning of the dicasteries' top ranks was in the offing due to internal governance problems...

Turkson's departure as well as Cardinal Sarrah leaves an enormous void Africa's relatively new and endangered catholic population is now without a link to the Vatican Hopefully His Holiness is doing a continent wide search to remedy this....AMDG....

The Church is a highly practical thing for working and fighting. There must be in it for working purposes a great deal of tradition, of familiarity, yes dare I say even ritual. So long as its fundamentals are felt this seems to me to be the sane condition. but when its fundamentals are doubted, as at present, we must fight and recover the candour and the wonder of a child. That unspoilt realism and objectivity of innocence. If the church cannot do this then we must shake the dust of mere custom and see what others see as new even if I see it as unnatural, this may take a while or never come. The things I see now are familiar and so long as that familiarity breeds affection Im home. It will become unfamiliar when familiarity breeds contempt..... JMJ....

>119 brone:, >120 brone:

Thanks. I'm not sure why you say that Africa's Catholic population is "endangered". I would say that the Church is growing faster in Africa than almost anywhere else, and is full of vitality. As for doubting the fundamentals, I think most people, certainly the ones I come across, are pretty clear about the fundamentals. Maybe your experience is different?

Edited to add: VATICAN - CATHOLIC CHURCH STATISTICS - 2021 (Agenzia Fides)

Published 21 October 2021 , figures from 31 December 2019:

- Global increase in Catholics 15.41 million of whom 8.302 million were in Africa.

- Total number of priests in the world increased to 414,336 (+271). The continents which registered major decreases were Europe (-2,608), America (-690) and Oceania (-69). Increases were registered in Africa (+1,649) and in Asia (+1,989).

- The number of major seminarians decreased globally but Africa registered an increase of 509.

- Charity and healthcare centres run in the world by the Church include: 5,245 hospitals, most of them in Africa (1,418) and in America (1,362); 14,963 dispensaries, mainly in Africa (5,307), America (4,043); 532 Care Homes for people with Leprosy, mainly in Asia (269) and Africa (201).

>118 John5918:

Vatican-based Ghanaian Cardinal: Pope Francis Will Decide if I Continue to Lead Dicastery (ACI Africa)

Cardinal Peter Turkson told journalists on Tuesday that Pope Francis will decide whether he continues to lead the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development. Speaking at a Vatican press conference on Dec. 21, the Ghanaian cardinal confirmed that his five-year term is expiring and he is awaiting the pope’s decision on his future. “If the Holy Father decides to have me continue, that’s what it is. If he decides to reassign me, that’s what it is,” he said. “All of us come here to serve and support the Holy Father in his ministry, and that’s what it is. So your question, then, probably is just that, whether I’ll be here next year. We just wait for the Holy Father to see what he wants us to do”...

“All of us come here to serve and support the Holy Father in his ministry, and that’s what it is". Would that more Catholics were to hold this sentiment!

Ghanaian Cardinal’s Retirement as Head of Vatican Dicastery Accepted, Interim Head Named (ACI Africa)

Pope Francis on Thursday accepted the resignation of Cardinal Peter Turkson as prefect of the Vatican Dicastery for Promoting Integral Human Development. He named the 75-year-old Canadian Jesuit Cardinal Michael Czerny as the interim head of the dicastery pending the appointment of “new leadership”...

At least six dead in the Congo after a Jihadist suicide bombing. Thousands of Christians and Muslims in concentration camps in Communist Red China, How many Catholics in Communist Cuba right under our (US) noses are in Jail. Our Lady of Fatima Pray for us!

Holy Year 2025 coordination assigned to New Evangelization (Vatican News)

Pope Francis has given the Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelization responsibility on coordinating the Holy See's preparations for the Holy Year 2025... In the Roman Catholic tradition, a Holy Year, or Jubilee is a great religious event. It traditionally marks a year of forgiveness of sins and also the punishment due to sin, a year of reconciliation between adversaries, a time of conversion and receiving the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Themes receiving special focus include: solidarity, hope, justice, commitment to serve God with joy and in peace with our brothers and sisters. A Jubilee year is above all the year of Christ, who brings life and grace to humanity.

Priests, Religious in Africa among Those in Danger of Persecution, Catholic Charity Says (ACI Africa)

Catholic pontifical and charity foundation, Aid to the Church in Need (ACN) International, has highlighted a number of African countries on the list of many countries in the world where Priests, Religious and Lay missionaries are facing the danger of killings, kidnappings and other forms of persecution. The African countries include Angola, Burkina Faso, South Sudan, Uganda, Nigeria, Cameroun, and Mali...

ACN leadership also reports that “Mexico is also suffering a high level of violence, and at least three Priests and one Catechist have been killed in separate incidents”... “Such kidnappings and killings are occurring in a growing list of countries, including Venezuela, Peru, Haiti, the Philippines, Angola, Burkina Faso, South Sudan, Uganda, Cameroun and Mali”... Even in France, once considered a safe country, ACN reports that “Fr Olivier Maire was murdered on 9 August by a man he was hosting in the missionaries’ house at Saint-Laurent-sur-Sèvre while the suspect awaited trial on a charge of arson for setting fire to Nantes Cathedral”...

“When security is fragile and everybody has left, the Priests, Religious and Lay Catholic missionaries remain, and their dedication to serve others puts them in the firing line. They need our prayers and support more than ever”...

That last sentence bears repeating. In South Sudan and many other troubled countries one of the characteristics of the church is that it is the only institution which remains on the ground with the people, sharing their suffering and providing spiritual and material support when all others have collapsed and/or fled.

"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"

Today, 29th December, the feast of St Thomas Becket, is a very English feast but also one for the universal Church as it reminds us of all those "turbulent priests" and other church people who have spoken truth to power, and inspires us to reflect on our own obligations in that regard.

It makes me think of Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who has just recently died, and of all the other bishops and church people who stood up against apartheid and other injustices in South Africa. The bishops in Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Mali, Central African Republic, Sudan, South Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Cameroon, Angola, China, Venezuela, Peru, Haiti, the Philippines, Mexico and other countries throughout the world where there is violence and injustice. Bishop Oscar Romero, Fr Maximilian Kolbe, Rev Martin Luther King, Rev Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Charles Lwanga, Kizito and the other Uganda martyrs. Missionary colleagues who have been murdered in various countries. Frs Ignacio Ellacuría Beascoechea, Ignacio Martín-Baró, Segundo Montes, Juan Ramón Moreno, Joaquín López y López, Amando López, and lay workers Elba Ramos and Celina Ramos, murdered in El Salvador, and later, Srs Ita Ford, Maura Clarke, Dorothy Kazel and lay missionary Jean Donovan, murdered and raped by US-backed government forces in the same country. Anglican Archbishop Janani Luwum and the Catholic monsignor who were murdered by Idi Amin's forces. Agostino, the catechist who was crucified by government soldiers in the Nuba Mountains. In South Sudan, Sr Dr Veronika, murdered at a government roadblock while driving an ambulance five years ago, Fr Victor Odhiambo in 2018, Juliano Ambrose Otwali last year, and Sisters Mary Daniel Abud and Regina Roba, just a few months ago. The list goes on - and is still being added to almost daily. May they all rest in peace.

In 2021, it became obvious the US bishops and the pope are singing from different hymnals (NCR)

The life of the Catholic Church in this country in 2021 was characterized by an obvious, flailing culture war fit and evidence the pope is more and more determined to press forward with the reception of Vatican II in ways that will likely affect the U.S. church in profound ways.

The effort by the leadership of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops to pick a fight with the nation's second Catholic president was the dominant story of the year. NCR's editors named Archbishop José Gomez its Catholic Newsmaker of the Year because of his role in the bishops' conference's catastrophically narrow focus on President Joe Biden's support for legal abortion, and consequent failure to recognize the unique opportunity presented by having a president who attends Mass with a frequency fewer and fewer Catholics display, and who has articulated the importance Catholic social teaching has had on his political views.

The drawn-out squabble about how to frame a document about "eucharistic coherence" showed a conference that was torn between the lousy theology of the culture warriors who think Biden and other pro-choice politicians should be denied Communion and the otherwise universal practice of the church that distinguishes between lawmaking about an evil action and the performance of the evil action itself...

The sound and fury of the bishops' debacle over Biden — among other items, especially liturgy — signified how out of touch the U.S. bishops' conference was with their people and with the direction the pope is indicating. There remains acute resistance to this pope, and it is more and more evident that such resistance is actually rooted in a deeper opposition to the Second Vatican Council...

Francis is inviting us to continue the reception of Vatican II. Some people thought that task had been accomplished with the publication of the official catechism, or with the promulgation of the new Code of Canon Law and the body of papal teaching that was issued by John Paul II. But it takes a century to receive a council, and Francis has been shaped by his experience of the post-conciliar church in Latin America, which witnessed the most fecund theological developments and from which emerged the deepest ecclesial expression of Vatican II's call for a ressourcement, a return to the ideas and impulses of the early church. Where John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI saw that call as a theological one, Francis saw it as a more primordial, and pastoral, invitation to place the poor and marginalized at the center of the church's concern.

Some in the U.S. church are resisting the pope's invitation, including a significant percentage of the hierarchy. Boston Cardinal Sean O'Malley... In the past several decades, the Catholic Church in this country has lurched to the right, among both the laity and the clergy. They applauded both John Paul II and Benedict insofar as they perceived those two popes to be rolling back the reforms of Vatican II. (In most respects, this perception was incorrect.) With Francis, there is no doubt that he is encouraging the church to move forward, and that he is not the least bit intimidated by the hecklers on the right. This has spawned a schismatic tendency that has been evident for several years...

Two articles from different parts of the world about different experiences of Church. In north America (and probably elsewhere in the Global North) the Church is declining and "many were indeed convinced that man {sic} could do without God" (it doesn't say whether woman could also do without God). On the other hand, "Amid those declines, Africa stands out." In Africa, and probably to a lesser extent in other parts of the Global South, the Church is vibrant and growing: "Fifty percent of that population is Christian; 17% are Catholic. Africa’s 236 million Catholics already make up 19% of the global Catholic population, but they are also the fastest-growing Catholic region in the world. By 2050, the World Christian Database estimates that African Catholics will make up 32% of the Catholic Church." So looking at the Church through a north American lens, one might indeed feel a little depressed and hopeless. But through an African lens, there is optimism, hope and vitality.

God and man {sic} in the 21st century (Catholic World Report)

But by the 1960s many were indeed convinced that man could do without God, and by the 21st century, this consensus had expanded. Nothing has happened in the first twenty-one years of the 21st century to suggest this flight from religious faith is reversing...

Demography reigns down in Africa (The Pillar)

Fifty percent of that population is Christian; 17% are Catholic. Africa’s 236 million Catholics already make up 19% of the global Catholic population, but they are also the fastest-growing Catholic region in the world. By 2050, the World Christian Database estimates that African Catholics will make up 32% of the Catholic Church...

The Church may also need to deal with differences in moral and doctrinal emphasis in Africa, as compared with those in Europe and the Americas. African Catholic leaders have given evidence during recent Church synods of thinking outside the left-right binaries that often define debates in the Catholic West. Their concerns, and ways of thinking, may well offer the Church paths forward on difficult issues, but not without emerging tensions between African Churchmen and their European and American counterparts... “African Christians take the Bible seriously, are keyed into the spiritual realm (miracles, powers, etc.), and yet are extremely socially active (unlike many conservative Christians in the USA). They're very political and have what some Americans might consider more ‘progressive’ views on climate change/environmentalism and immigration”... And as Africa’s Catholic population grows, European and American Church leaders may find it is African leaders who are setting the agenda for the Church’s global conversation.

Christians Still Face Persecution Globally, But There are Signs of Hope: Catholic Charity (ACI Africa)

Christians continue to face persecution across the globe but there are many signs of hope, according to the Catholic charity Aid to the Church in Need (ACN). “The year 2021 has been marked by gratitude and concern,” wrote Thomas Heine-Geldern, executive president of ACN...

Vatican Agency Reveals Number of Missionaries Murdered Around the World During 2021 (ACI Africa)

22 Catholic missionaries were killed around the world in 2021, half of them in Africa, according to a report released by the Fides News Agency and distributed Thursday by the Vatican press office. Fides, the news agency of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, reported that of the 22 missionaries killed in 2021, 13 were priests, two were women religious, one was a male religious, and six were lay people. Half of the total were killed in Africa: seven priests, two religious sisters, and two lay people... seven missionaries were murdered in Latin America, three in Asia, and one in Europe. "In recent years, Africa and Latin America have alternated in the first place of this tragic ranking. From 2000 to 2020, according to our data, 536 missionaries were killed worldwide," says the report...

RIP.

>106 brone: et al

Notre Dame Disneyfied? Unlikely, but the devil will be in the detail (Guardian)

There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth a few weeks ago when the Daily Telegraph announced that the renovation of the fire-ravaged Notre Dame cathedral would turn it into a “politically correct Disneyland”. As so often when that august publication buckles on its cuirass and bascinet in the War on Woke, it helps to look closely at its sources and evidence. In this case, it relied on the opinions of a conservative architect called Maurice Culot and sight of rather general proposals to install “modern art murals” in some of the side chapels and to project quotes from the Bible in languages that include Mandarin. A more measured and informed article in the Washington Post, by the art historian Elizabeth Lev, later pointed out that these chapels were formerly “an ill-kept hodgepodge generally passed over by tourists” and there should be nothing very terrible about a cathedral communicating the scriptures in the world’s leading languages...

In 2022 we need as Catholics to endure, anti Catholic socialist left wing advertising and political climate in which we are forced to live by tyrannical organizations such as BLM and LBQT. In CA Loyola Marymount "Catholic campus" holds fund raiser for planned parenthood, Drag queen story hours organised all over the country, Catholic School in Wheaton Ill has to defend it self for separate boys and girls room. St martha's parish in Miami Statues destroyed on parish grounds.....Pray the Rosary as reparation for these crimes against Her Son as She instructed us to do at Fatima,,,,AMDG....

American Catholic colleges must defend the right of women to compete in sports exclusively against other women

Three Vatican International Events That Catholics Can Look Forward to in 2022 (ACI Africa)

Although the coronavirus pandemic continues to affect many people around the world, the beginning of a new calendar year is also a good time to look forward to joyful events to come. In Rome, the Vatican is planning three important international occasions with Christian hope. Though crowd sizes may have to be controlled, modern technology and the ability to connect remotely or through live streaming mean that participation can be unlimited...

The canonization of Charles de Foucauld...

10th World Meeting of Families... will also mark the end of the Amoris Laetitia Family Year...

The beatification of Pope John Paul I...

Fr Richard Rohr's Daily Meditation, Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

Nothing Stands Alone: Creating a People

The Body of Christ is inherently a collective reality. Father Richard emphasizes that to live the gospel, we need each other:

The Body of Christ, the spiritual family, is God’s strategy. It is both medium and message. It is both beginning and end: “May they all be one . . . so that the world may believe it was you who sent me . . . that they may be one as we are one, with me in them and you in me” (John 17:21–23).

There is no other form for the Christian life except a common one. This may even be a matter of culture, if culture refers to something which is shared and passed on. In this sense, I am wondering if there is any other kind of Christianity except “cultural Christianity,” for better and for worse.

Until and unless Christ is someone happening between people, the gospel remains largely an abstraction. Until Jesus Christ is passed on personally through faithfulness and forgiveness, through bonds of union, I doubt whether he is passed on at all.

We are now paying the price for centuries in which the Church was narrowed from a full vision of peoplehood to an almost total preoccupation with private persons and their devotional needs. But history has shown that individuals who are confirmed in their individualism by the very character of our evangelism will never create church, except after the model of a service station: they will use it as a commodity like everything else. This is far cry from our “original participation” (Owen Barfield (1898–1997)) in the Body of Christ from the moment of our conception.

Certainly, we must deal with individuals. But the very nature of our lifestyle and our church teaching must say from the beginning what the goal is—the communion of saints, a shared life together as family, the trinitarian life of God, the kingdom—here!

The prophet Haggai criticizes the Jews after the exile for dwelling comfortably in their “paneled houses” while the common walls of the temple lie in ruins (see Haggai 1:4, 9). His prophetic call is now and forever. We still think that we can work with the world’s agenda, where career and individual fulfillment are the basic building blocks of society. And we believe that we can build church from those well-educated and well-saved blocks. But God needs “living stones making a spiritual house” (1 Peter 2:5).

For Jesus, such teachings as forgiveness, healing, and justice are not just a spiritual test or obstacle course. They are quite simply the necessary requirements for a basic shared life. Peacemaking and reconciliation are not some kind of box seat tickets to heaven. They are the price of peoplehood. They express the truth in the heart of God, the truth that has been shared with us in the Holy Spirit, the union in Jesus the Christ who is reconciling all people to God (see 2 Corinthians 5:18–19).

Adapted from Richard Rohr, Near Occasions of Grace (Maryknoll, NY: Orbis Books, 1993), 50–51.

The African concept of ubuntu comes to mind here.

And another serendipitous reference to ubuntu. I think Africa has a lot to teach the world.

Reignite “spirit of Ubuntu” in Conserving Environment (ACI Africa)

The popular and emotive African philosophy of Ubuntu goes beyond how a person relates with other human beings, participants in Together for a New Africa (T4NA), a network of former students of Italy-based Sophia University and other young leaders across Africa, have been told... the Ubuntu philosophy can also guide how Africans relate with the environment... to relate with the environment with respect, love, and other divine principles of Ubuntu that have always guided how Africans relate with each other. “Africa has always had the spirit of Ubuntu. In the world view, we talk of how a person relates with other human beings. But now, we must talk about how a person relates with nature"... He added, “In the spirit of Ubuntu, we care and respect other people. But we must also care and respect nature and the environment”...

Daily topics were woven around Pope Francis’ Encyclical Letter, Laudato Si’, and included Integral Ecology, Governance and Climate Change and Ubuntu and Climate Change...

>90 John5918: I am scheduled to audit a class at the local college. It will cost me a mere $50, as a community member. I had originally tried to take an agriculture course; but when that fell through, I perused the catalog and settled on ‘Images of Jesus’ in the Religion department. The school is not denominational, so it may be quite interesting just in that respect.

I would not be surprised if the professor starts with this controversy.

>138 2wonderY:

Sounds like a great opportunity. Enjoy it, Ruth, and do let us know anything interesting that crops up.

ROM 5:12 "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" How do Thevolutionists and progressive creationists reconcile with Paul's inspired words....AMDG....

>140 brone:

Paul's words describe a theological truth. Science describes something different. They are answering different questions.

Today we celebrate the baptism of Jesus, in luke's gospel The Holy Trinity is revealed as bodily beings, God the Father as a voice, God the Holy Ghost as a dove, and Jesus as the son....AMDG....

>139 John5918: First class, and the professor presented a wide variety of controversial and sometimes shocking images. I may create a thread just to record my notes and impressions. But since it’s not strictly Catholic, this might not be the correct group. Can you check with the Group administrator?

Btw, I mentioned the Catholic University “Mama” painting to the prof. He hadn’t heard of it, but googled it and added it to his collection.

>143 2wonderY:

I am the Group Admin! Images of Christ have been mentioned in the Catholic Tradition group before, so I would certainly be happy for you to open a thread here. But if you feel that it is more appropriate to post it in the wider Christian context, there is a Christianity group, at https://www.librarything.com/ngroups/101/Christianity

There is only one truth.

>145 brone:

Indeed. No argument with you there. But to quote a few more of Paul's inspired words, "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" (KJV) or "Now we see only reflections in a mirror, mere riddles, but then we shall be seeing face to face. Now I can know only imperfectly; but then I shall know just as fully as I am myself known" (New Jerusalem) (1 Corinthians 13:12). We do not see nor understand that truth perfectly yet, and often we only see different partial aspects of it. That doesn't make them false, simply incomplete.

Vatican Unveils Motto for 2025 Jubilee Year, Summed Up in "Pilgrims of Hope" (ACI Africa)

Preparations are already underway in Rome for the 2025 Jubilee, a special year of grace and pilgrimage in the Catholic Church. Archbishop Rino Fisichella met with Pope Francis this month to discuss the motto for the jubilee. In a video published by Vatican News on Jan. 13, Fisichella revealed that the motto approved by the pope “can be summed up in two words: Pilgrims of Hope"...

Speaking of truth Bishop Robert Barron Aux Bishop LA, Has sparked a controversy with some of his followers in which he seems to support the current trend (since Vat ll) theologians are teaching that all scripture is true but has limited inerrancy, the true part of course is any part that says or infers "for the sake of our salvation" are without error. Everything else he infers could be riddled with errors....AMDG....

Yesterday the feast of St Edmund Campion the boy orator (spoke at the coronation of Queen Mary at the age of 13). Educated at Oxford, became a Jesuit in Rome, exiled in Prague, murdered in London after ingeniously preaching the faith right under his persecutors noses, much like the under ground priests and bishops of communist China today....JMJ....

The grammar school I attended was named for Edmund Campion. One of the great English martyrs.

Another English martyr Thomas More, wrote a novel while imprisoned in the tower awaiting his execution, This work of Thomas's is not in any sense a scholarly piece of work it is meant for everyone who has the two essentials faith and intelligence presupposed by the author....AMDG....PS However reading this in 16th century English is not easy.

This thread has reached 150+ posts and is becoming a little slow to load, so I have started a continuation of it at https://www.librarything.com/topic/339035

Please post there from now on.