New Suntup 1984

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New Suntup 1984

1jsg1976
Giu 18, 2020, 12:55 pm

Latest announcement from Suntup:

Originally published on June 8, 1949, George Orwell’s 1984 is a dystopian masterpiece of tremendous influence and enduring relevance. The fine press limited edition of 1984 by George Orwell is presented in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist Gift editions. The editions feature seventeen full color illustrations by Hugo Award-winning artist Jim Burns as well as an introduction by New York Times bestselling author Joe Hill.

Lettered and Numbered editions are signed by Joe Hill and Jim Burns.
Artist Gift edition is signed by Jim Burns.

The Lettered edition ($2,950) is limited to 26 copies and is a quarter leather binding with black acrylic boards which are laser cut on the front cover. The edition is printed letterpress on Mouldmade Zerkall paper, and is housed in a Japanese cloth enclosure with a clear acrylic front panel. The edition is signed by Joe Hill and Jim Burns.

The Numbered edition ($675) of 250 copies is a full paste paper binding handpainted by Marie Kelzer. The cover and spine include a foil stamped label, and endsheets are Canson Ingress. The edition is printed letterpress on Mohawk Superfine, and is housed in a blue acrylic slipcase. The edition is handbound and is signed by Joe Hill and Jim Burns.

Marie Kelzer’s paste paper covers for 1984 are handpainted one at a time, and no two are entirely alike. Marie Kelzer’s Paste Papers are part of the Paper Legacy Project and are housed at The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, at the Thomas J. Watson Library. She has been painting paste papers since 1988.

The Artist Gift edition ($120) is limited to 1000 copies and features a foil stamped dust jacket. It is a full cloth smyth sewn binding with two-hits foil stamping over cloth boards. It is the only edition of the three with the dust jacket. The book is printed offset, and is housed in a unique die cut silver paper covered slipcase. The edition is signed by Jim Burns.

Link to full details on website: https://suntup.press/1984

2RATBAG.
Modificato: Giu 18, 2020, 3:08 pm

I am incredibly disappointed in the design, even more so the price. The Folio edition is much better, IMO.

In terms of innovation, however...Suntup completely missed the mark on this one.

Just check out THIS edition of 1984 by Richard Tuttle:

https://www.classiceditions.com/nineteen-eighty-four-by-george-orwell-unique-bin...

3jveezer
Giu 18, 2020, 2:01 pm

Looks nice. I would like a nice edition of this important book but too far down my wish list for there to be any discretionary book funds. I would love to review one of Suntup's books for my blog but they obviously don't need reviews to sell out quickly, so getting a review loaner copy is probably not going to happen...

4filox
Modificato: Giu 18, 2020, 2:02 pm

Yeah I also expected better. Illustrations continue to be a pain point for Suntup IMO, but this time the binding (for the numbered edition) is also below expectations. Might pick up the AGE though. Are there any other fine press editions of this book (excluding the Tuttle one)?

5gmacaree
Giu 18, 2020, 2:11 pm

I really like the numbered binding and I'm very glad to hear other people don't :)

6kdweber
Giu 18, 2020, 5:05 pm

>4 filox: I've been waiting for a new fine press edition of 1984 so I'll probably pick up the Suntup edition.

7Glacierman
Giu 18, 2020, 6:58 pm

That paste-paper binding on the numbered edition has had an attack of the uglies. *shudder* But then, I have never been a fan of paste papers.

8jeremyjm
Giu 18, 2020, 7:34 pm

I really like the paste papers on the numbered edition. I would prefer if it had been done in quarter leather though and maybe omitting the title on the front cover. The illustrations I'm not sold on though - they just don't align my mental image of the '1984' world.

9astropi
Modificato: Giu 18, 2020, 8:14 pm

I have to say the binding and overall presentation actually looks quite great in my opinion. The illustrations... sorry, but they don't do it. They look as exciting as vanilla covered in vanilla syrup with vanilla on top.

>2 RATBAG.: I disagree. I see no way in which the FS edition is better. I think the Suntup design is really great. The illustrations not so much, but then I went to look at the FS illustrations and they're equally as bland. Perhaps even a bit more so. Maybe that's what the illustrators are going for "bland"?

>6 kdweber: are there any other fine press releases of 1984?
EP has a deluxe limited edition which is quite nice, but of course it's not letterpress.



10MobyRichard
Modificato: Giu 18, 2020, 8:10 pm

The gift edition looks great to me. The numbered and lettered editions are not worth commenting on :p.

11astropi
Giu 18, 2020, 8:21 pm

>9 astropi: I guess we all have different tastes :)
I think the numbered and lettered editions actually are a vast improvement over his unremarkable Fahrenheit 451. This is an expensive book, but it is letterpress and I think the handpainted paper bindings are gorgeous!

Considering there are basically no fine press editions of 1984...
Signed Ultra Rare Deluxe Fine Press & Letterpress Limited Edition || 1984 & Animal Farm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBF78Ym1ARY

12Glacierman
Giu 18, 2020, 9:26 pm

13dlphcoracl
Modificato: Giu 20, 2020, 6:46 am

Easy “Pass” for me. The numbered copy is unattractive and overpriced.

14c_schelle
Giu 19, 2020, 4:21 am

Orwell is one of my favourite authors and I would really love a letterpress edition of 1984, but the numbered and lettered editions are too expensive for me. I hope someone will make a more "affordable" version some time. I'm considering the artist gift edition, but shipping to Germany is quite expensive.

15RATBAG.
Giu 19, 2020, 9:02 pm

>9 astropi: That's one possibility, but the Folio illustrations certainly hold up better than Suntup's. The production value on the Numbered is certainly higher, but the design on the Folio is stronger, more "in-your-face" and intimidating I would say.

16astropi
Modificato: Giu 20, 2020, 5:19 am

>15 RATBAG.: to each their own, I have to disagree. The FS illustrations I find about as exciting as the Suntup. It's possible the Suntup illustrations will be much improved "in real life" considering the production value, although that remains to be seen. Below is one of the FS illustrations. Just doesn't do much for me.



Maybe Orwell is a difficult subject for many. A bit off-topic, but I will say the best illustrations I've seen are from the EP DLE of Animal Farm, but of course that's a whole different beast (ya'll see what I did there :D

17dlphcoracl
Giu 20, 2020, 8:36 am

The 2014 Folio Society edition of 1984 is one of their more attractive editions, printed and bound by the FS's finest team of Memminger MedianCentrum AG and Lachenmaier in Germany. The illustrations by Jonathan Burton are far more evocative than the Suntup Edition illustrations, which have a newspaper cartoon appearance. The $675 for the numbered letterpress Suntup edition is far better spent on other things. For me, it will go toward the two Barbarian Press poetry books which will be published in 2020 and a rare limited edition of one of the early Kurt Masereel wordless novels.

18gatchafan
Giu 20, 2020, 10:00 am

Really don’t like the design of the spine. The double L looks plain wrong and a bit silly.

19astropi
Modificato: Giu 20, 2020, 10:19 am

>17 dlphcoracl: For about $60 the FS edition is nice, but the illustrations are okay, and just that, okay. I don't own the FS edition, but based on the websites I think the FS illustrations are no better than the Suntup edition. To be honest, the more I study the Suntup website the better the illustrations and book is looking. If you want a fine press edition of 1984, there is really only one choice, Suntup. Also, the overall design and look of the book and slipcase is wonderful


That said, this is a lot of money...

20booksforreading
Giu 20, 2020, 11:39 am

Letterpress printing and artificial limitations by themselves do not hold any attraction to me.
This "1984" version does not seem appealing to my eyes, and it seems seriously overpriced for what it offers.

21booksforreading
Giu 20, 2020, 12:55 pm

>20 booksforreading:
And yet, the numbered edition has been sold out, and in less than an hour. Amazing.

22gmacaree
Giu 20, 2020, 12:59 pm

>21 booksforreading: as far as I can tell it sold out in something like thirty seconds

23Glacierman
Giu 20, 2020, 1:36 pm

>22 gmacaree: Chalk it up to mass insanity. *wink*

24filox
Giu 20, 2020, 5:46 pm

>21 booksforreading: It's not surprising. Suntup is at a point where he has a loyal base of followers that will buy literally anything he produces. If you go over to TDT you will see nothing but praise for his books.

Not saying his books aren't nice or anything, but over time I've started cooling off on his books tbh. Lately it felt like they are all the same somehow (talking about numbered, not lettered editions). They all come with very bland illustrations that all kinda look alike and feel very cartoonish, average typesetting, and the binding has been getting worse too. Early on I felt he was kinda bringing something new and interesting, but now his books seem like an upscale version of Sub Press (in the sense that all Sub Press books look very similar to me). Ironically, the only Suntup book that hasn't sold out is Brother which I think is one of his better ones. I have this book and the binding is absolutely gorgeous and unlike anything I've seen. These days it's marbled papers for 451, and paste papers for 1984... Somehow neither really works for me. I'm glad he still sells out, it means he will keep making more books and might eventually make something I like again.

25gatchafan
Giu 20, 2020, 7:00 pm

I dare you to say all that on the Fans of Suntup forum. You will be strung up. They are very protective to say the least.

26Glacierman
Giu 20, 2020, 7:32 pm

>25 gatchafan: Sounds like a cult to me. :-D

27astropi
Giu 20, 2020, 9:39 pm

I've said for quite awhile now that Suntup has a fanbase that will defend pretty much everything, and purchase pretty much everything he produces. While I didn't order the 1984, I thought it was a step in the right direction, unlike 451 which pales in comparison to the LEC. Limitation was 250 copies. He could easily go up another 50 to 300, but I don't think he want's too. If you purposely keep production below the actual demand, people will "talk" about your books more and well, I honestly believe he wants that attention.

28Pellias
Giu 21, 2020, 1:25 am

>27 astropi: It also looks as if reality has kicked in for some fans. Saying that for different reasons some already sell of their Suntup collection.

-

About the book:

Not too long ago i read (FS) 1984 and liked it. Therefore i saw no need to splurge about $750 with shipping cost only for letterpress and some add-ons onto that.

I also strive to see the connection with Joe Hill King and 1984 other than this is one of many many favourite books of King sr.

The books introduction would show of more relevance with say the likes of Margareth Atwood writing it and thus climbed a few notches with a more authoritative text. But, i also see though that a fresh opinion from Joe Hill would be, could be nice, but Joe Hill also signs about anything which makes his signature not too unique to go with the book.

I do like the illustrations in the suntup book. I also find them defining - sometimes i want to paint my own image of the story`s protagonist/antagonist and or situation. What i like with the FS illustrations is that they are not, very defining. Yes they are somewhat cartoonish, but at the same time they are not. It depends on what one chooses too see. That is my personal taste.

.. at this pricing i demand more than what i already can have with my much cheaper and collectible FS edition, which i also really like.

But don`t worry. I`m going to splurge sometime in the future on some Suntup book that i also really really want. Congrats to those that are happy with their purchase.

29astropi
Giu 21, 2020, 5:33 am

>28 Pellias: I would have loved to have had some scholarly article attached with the book describing its importance and relevance today. Even a non-letterpress commentary volume would have pushed me to purchase this. As it stands, there are other books that I would prefer to spend such money on.

30filox
Giu 21, 2020, 6:05 am

>25 gatchafan: Yeah I know. To be fair, I was very excited by his early stuff (e.g., Misery, Rosemary's Baby, Road), and I think his lettered editions are still top-notch. It's just that I'm less and less excited by the latest few numbered editions, even though I got the numbered F451.

31dlphcoracl
Giu 21, 2020, 12:00 pm

>30 filox:

At $3,000 a pop, the Suntup lettered editions represent one of the poorest values in the world of private press books. I cannot fathom who his collectors are and how many there are, necessitating a lottery system to sell and distribute them.

And numerous "collectors" were complaining about the $1,200. price tag for the Foolscap Press edition of 'Sir John Mandeville'??

32jroger1
Giu 21, 2020, 12:12 pm

>31 dlphcoracl:
New books in this price range, $1,200 to $3,000, are collectors’ items, not “real” books. They are intended for show but not for reading. They remind me of artwork that has no function but to be hung on the wall for years or decades. There is nothing wrong with that if they give the owner pleasure, but it isn’t why I buy books.

33dlphcoracl
Modificato: Giu 21, 2020, 12:36 pm

>32 jroger1:

Disagree.

Most of these books are indeed for reading, not display, and they are "real" books, giving their owners enormous pleasure to hold and read while admiring their craftsmanship and book design ingenuity. Whether they are worth the asking price or whether the pleasure received from them justifies their price tags is a different issue, but these are decidedly not akin to paintings that hang on a wall, to be admiring as they sit idly on a bookshelf.

34U_238
Modificato: Giu 21, 2020, 1:21 pm

>32 jroger1: It’s a book. Not a picture of a book. Of course it’s a real book for reading. It’s just adorned and has a high price tag. How odd an opinion.

35jroger1
Modificato: Giu 21, 2020, 2:19 pm

>33 dlphcoracl: >34 U_238:
Perhaps I overstated my case. I’m willing to pay for an attractive book with a cover and paper pleasant to the touch, an easy-to-read font, and beautiful illustrations. I read those books with pleasure. But I’m not willing to pay for an artificially low limitation the only purpose of which is to jack up the price or a tipped-in signature sheet indicative of the fact that the signer never really signed or touched the book. I consider these practices to be gimmicks designed to fleece the collector.

They remind me of rare coin and stamp investors who buy coins encased in hard plastic holders that can’t be broken except with a hammer and chisel. Why would they want a stamp or coin so expensive that they can’t touch it and hold it in their hands? Where is the enjoyment?

I realize that different people have different financial situations, but a $1,200 to $3,000 book is not one I could read and enjoy.

36handandeye
Giu 21, 2020, 3:47 pm

>20 booksforreading:
As a letterpress printer I agree! There's good and bad letterpress, just like everything else.

37gatchafan
Giu 21, 2020, 4:23 pm

I must admit I’m glad I got in at the start with Misery numbered but equally glad I don’t have the obsession of having matching numbers and collecting every book he produces.
I will pick and choose titles but I’m sure this will become impossible soon especially as the number of books hitting the public sale is getting smaller with every release.
Maybe that’s why the price of each book is increasing.

38filox
Giu 21, 2020, 5:32 pm

>31 dlphcoracl: I think you are conflating a couple of issues here.

There is the quality of the book itself, and then there is the price tag attached to it. These two are unrelated. What I am talking about is the former. As books, price ignored, Suntup lettered editions are IMO outstanding (well most of them anyway). For example, see the lettered Lottery. Jellyfish skin binding that looks absolutely stunning and has a very nice connection to the story itself. I think owning and reading this book would be a delight.

Regarding the price, for me personally it's a bit steep, but these books are clearly worth $3000 and more. Why? Because someone payed $3000 for them. There is no such thing as overpriced or poor value. Value of something is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, and these books found their buyer(s). It may not be worth it that much to you personally, and that's ok. We don't all have to agree on everything. And coming back again to Mandeville, that book isn't worth $1200 for me, but it's clearly worth that much to someone else.

>34 U_238: Eh, it's a mix. There are books you buy to read, and there are books you buy as works of art. Just look at Suntup's Road, lettered edition. The binding is so fragile and awkward, you have to handle it with gloves. I doubt it would be a pleasure to keep taking it out to read too often. But as a work of art/collectible item, I think it's great.

39grifgon
Giu 21, 2020, 7:04 pm

Just as a small note of interest, James Freemantle at the St. James Park Press is planning an edition of 1984 to be announced sometime later this year. It will be printed letterpress on an Albion hand press, on handmade paper, folio size, with some incredibly inventive illustrations and typesetting from what I've seen so far. Only 50 copies.

40booksforreading
Giu 21, 2020, 8:00 pm

>36 handandeye:
I own some of your books, and your own presswork and attention to every detail in quality are outstanding in my opinion.

>27 astropi:
"If you purposely keep production below the actual demand, people will "talk" about your books more and well, I honestly believe he wants that attention."
This is exactly what seems to me to be one of the signs of an artificial limitation.

>17 dlphcoracl:
When I look at Barbarian Press offerings, the case for me is exactly opposite to that presented by Suntup Press.
While, in my opinion, their work is artistically without a fault, my problem with choices by Barbarian Press is exactly what you have outlined in some of your other posts elsewhere about fine press choices: their work is of the highest quality, but their publication choices keep me away from subscribing. Their plan of publishing an expensive fine press edition of Poems of Molly Holden, who was a good poet, but now all but completely forgotten (and, after reading some of her work, I would say that it was probably for a good reason), does not resonate with me. After initial splash of interest that their publication will cause, the poet and her output will surely go back to the obscurity. Why would I spend hundreds of $ on something that is secondary in literary merit?
On the other hand, their plan of printing yet another edition of elegies by Thomas Gray & Oliver Goldsmith does not resonate with me either, as I already have abundance of fine press publications of these poems.

>32 jroger1:
>35 jroger1:
I generally agree with your position and opinion, including that about Suntup lettered edition, with small exception: there are some very expensive books that I am very lucky to own that were definitely designed for reading and enjoyment, not just for pride and display. For example, I have the Mandeville from the Foolscap Press, and, to me, it is a joy to read.

>38 filox:
Interesting thoughts on value and demand! You might be right.
It would be interesting to see what these $3000 books will be worth in a couple of decades - a possibility is that not many people will want them for this price, but who knows...
It is good that I am not buying books for investment purposes.

41dlphcoracl
Modificato: Giu 21, 2020, 8:31 pm

>40 booksforreading:

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

The specific choices made by ANY private press with regard to what they choose to publish is, of course, highly subjective and personal. I do not find the Barbarian Press bibliography nearly as objectionable as you do, but that is simply a matter of taste.

A collection of Cavafy poetry? A collection of Odes by John Keats? Shakespeare's Venus and Adonis? Edmund Spenser's Prothalamion & Epithalamion? A highly original and scholarly edition of The Ingoldsby Legends? A groundbreaking edition of Shakespeare's 'The Play of Pericles'? And you think these choices are quirky and off the mark?

Really?

Fortunately, there are now a number of fine small private presses to choose from and some will be more successful than others in matching your literary interests. I have had little trouble in finding Barbarian Press editions of interest but, as they say: "Different strokes for different folks". Regardless, their letterpress printing, book design and craftsmanship are outstanding and when they publish something in your wheelhouse you can be confident it will be worth considering for purchase.

42dlphcoracl
Modificato: Giu 21, 2020, 8:33 pm

>39 grifgon:

James Freemantle is indeed (at present time) committed to publishing an edition of '1984' and his preliminary book design ideas are "off the charts", extremely original and inventive. However, there is no way he intends to publish this in 2020 and he will be quite fortunate to complete this by the end of 2021.

Although James Freemantle does his work using an 1869 Albion hand press, because of his unusual tri-color page design for '1984' he will NOT be able to print the text pages on his hand press. He WILL be able to print his poster-style illustrations on the Albion hand press, however, using a variety of exotic hand made papers.

If he sees this ambitious project through to completion - and he is the only private press I know of that will attempt a project this large and daunting on a hand press - it will be the definitive edition of this important classic for many decades to come, a truly unique collector's item.

43dlphcoracl
Giu 21, 2020, 8:37 pm

>38 filox:

"There is no such thing as overpriced or poor value."

Your joking, right??

44grifgon
Giu 21, 2020, 9:56 pm

He certainly won't finish it in 2020, but the announcement seems to be coming in 2020. Because the edition will be limited to 50 copies, folks will likely have to reserve copies far in advance of the edition's completion.

45dlphcoracl
Giu 21, 2020, 10:43 pm

>44 grifgon:

Agree.

Additionally, because of the enormous costs involved a substantial down payment or pre-payment of his guesstimate for the purchase price will be necessary. FWIW, knowing the quality of James freemantle’s work I would reserve a copy in a heartbeat.

46booksforreading
Giu 21, 2020, 10:47 pm

>41 dlphcoracl:
Please note that I did not say anything about the past publications of Barbarian press in my post - I actually own some of books that you mention. I was referring to upcoming poetry publications, and I can add to this their numerous choices of obscure works that are plentiful in examples of their past bibliography or strange choices, such as "Musick in Partes: Songs & Poems from Shakespeare’s Plays" -- why spend many hundreds of $ on a very small-sized book of tiny excerpts from Shakespeare plays, when you can spend this amount on 2/3 to complete collection of plays from LEC (one of the best complete Shakespeare plays publications ever, in my opinion)??

So please understand me correctly: I am not criticizing all of Barbarian Press choices. For me, personally, at least half of them is unattractive. Interests differ for everyone, and I am glad that they have faithful following.
I only buy books that combine in themselves the quality of work, artistic merit, and literary merits. I realize that opinions on what constitutes any of the three components I mention can differ significantly.
This is the reason that I most of the time, pass on Suntup Press productions - I am not convinced about at least two of the above-mentioned components most of the time. Again, I am sure that many people will disagree with me, and they are probably right. Who knows...

47PatsChoice
Giu 22, 2020, 12:03 am

>46 booksforreading: "Again, I am sure that many people will disagree with me, and they are probably right. Who knows..."

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer here, my friend. As >41 dlphcoracl: noted: De gustibus non est disputandum. :)

I'm on your side on this one: Suntup has largely left me unimpressed thus far; I often find the designs garish. That said, they have had some truly striking productions featuring a perfect combination of creativity, flair, and nailing the ethos of the work—especially in the lettered realm: Misery and Red Dragon immediately come to mind.

As an aside, it's of interest to me that you noted the LEC Shakespeares as one of your favorite collections. I'm well aware of the reputation of the Gamlet bound in pigskin and featuring illustrations by Eric Gill, but I didn't realize the rest of the set was held in such high esteem. What do you like about them in particular? I assume they were printed letterpress, of course. Your insight is appreciated!

48booksforreading
Modificato: Giu 22, 2020, 10:51 am

>47 PatsChoice:
The little delightful volume of Hamlet, illustrated by Eric Gill, is a stand-alone production from the Limited Editions Club.
In my post, I was referencing the complete 37-volume illustrated and letterpress-printed edition of Shakespeare's plays from 1939-40. It was designed in every detail by Bruce Rogers, and the contributing artists included most of the most important artist-illustrators of the time! Simply put, it is a phenomenal publication!
My set has 40 volumes: in addition to the plays, it includes a volume of all Commentaries together with Review/Preview (bound uniformly with the rest of the set) and two-volume set of poems.

You can see many photos and read more information on the books and vines website here: https://booksandvines.com/2012/09/28/the-comedies-histories-and-tragedies-of-wil...

You can also find some discussions dedicated to this specific set on Folio Society forum and on George Macy Devotees forum.

49RATBAG.
Giu 22, 2020, 1:32 pm

>42 dlphcoracl: I can't find any news on his website about this, can you please share a link or preliminary pics if they exist?

50dlphcoracl
Giu 22, 2020, 1:52 pm

>49 RATBAG.:

This was communicated to me via exchange of personal e-mails. Nothing on the St. James Park Press website as yet. James Freemantle is still working out the time frame and level of commitment to his "1984' project. Originally, he was going to work slowly and continuously on it over several years as he published smaller editions and projects. He is currently rethinking that and may want to devote full time to designing, printing and publishing so that it appears in print ASAP, ideally before end of year in 2021. If he chooses to go that route, placing a reservation and substantial down payment (pre-payment) to enable James to commence work on it will be a no-brainer for me. I have his latest edition - An Albion in the Antarctic - and very few private presses are designing and printing books in this league at present time. The number of subtle details, tweaks, etc. in 'Albion' cannot be easily described.

51ultrarightist
Giu 22, 2020, 2:17 pm

>50 dlphcoracl: You certainly know how to whet one's fine press appetite. Do you have any idea of a ballpark figure for his 1984 edition? I imagine with the expected quality and low limitation, it will be expensive. Will it be in the same price league as Mad Parrot's Wind in the Willows ($2K)?

52dlphcoracl
Modificato: Giu 22, 2020, 3:04 pm

>51 ultrarightist:

James Freemantle is at the very beginning of the book design process for '1984' and he does not have a firm grasp of what his offering price will be. However, his preliminary design ideas are so startling, complex and original - and labor intensive - that it certainly should be offered at a price comparable or greater to the cost of the Mad Parrot TWITW, for several important reasons:

1. He will perform as much of the printing work as possible on his 1869 Albion hand press. He mentioned that his complex tricolor text page design will probably necessitate using something other than his Albion for the letterpress printing. However, the 30-plus poster style illustrations will be printed on the Albion handpress (according to James).

2. He will be using a wide variety of rare and costly hand made papers throughout this edition. In particular, the poster-style illustrations will be printed on a variety of rare papers, then tipped into the book.

3. His book will be substantially larger than TWITW, nearly three hundred pages by James's estimate. More pages, more work, more cost for materials.

4. The page design is far more complex than typical private press books and it will be tricky and time-consuming to execute properly.

I strongly suggest you and anyone else interested in the work of the St. James Park Press look carefully at the dozens of Instagram posts and entries (dated between July 9, 2019 and March 8, 2020) for his most recent book 'An Albion in the Antarctic' (link below). There are so many innovative design ideas, tweeks, subtle touches, etc., things most collectors (myself included) would easily miss or gloss over that set his work apart. He approaches these books as a world-class collector of modern private press books - which he is!- asking himself what HE would want in each edition he publishes.

https://www.instagram.com/st_james_park_press/?hl=en

53ultrarightist
Giu 22, 2020, 4:09 pm

>52 dlphcoracl: Thank you for the information. This sounds like it could be the definitive edition of 1984 and stand head and shoulders above the Suntup edition.

I am very interested in his King Arthur edition, and have inquired with him about it. Did you acquire his edition of Hercules? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

54jveezer
Giu 22, 2020, 4:41 pm

>52 dlphcoracl: I just took a quick look at his website on my phone and love the press already, especially the "ordinary" editions. Tongue in cheek, I'm sure. I'd like to fill my shelves with such ordinary editions....

55booksforreading
Giu 22, 2020, 4:49 pm

>39 grifgon:
>52 dlphcoracl:
Thank you very much for this information!

56grifgon
Giu 22, 2020, 4:59 pm

>51 ultrarightist: >52 dlphcoracl: James has given me a ballpark estimate of $2,000 for a copy. Given the limitation, a downpayment will certainly be needed, and I think it will certainly be worth it.

>53 ultrarightist: I just recently got a copy of Hercules, and I think it's wonderful. Couldn't recommend it enough, though I don't know if there are any copies remaining at the press.

57filox
Giu 22, 2020, 5:01 pm

>43 dlphcoracl: Uhm, no. You're joking right? I'd struggle to find a serious economist who would claim that a good is overpriced at $X after being sold for $X. I mean no offense, but the world doesn't adhere to your definition of value. Everyone has their own idea of how much each good is worth, and if a book has sold for $3000, then that book is definitely worth $3000 and is not overpriced. I am however genuinely curious how you arrive at the conclusion that a book is overpriced.

>40 booksforreading: Yeah, I didn't mention time on purpose to keep things simple, but it is definitely a factor. Which way the price moves for a particular book in a few years/decades is anyone's guess. I will say one thing: investing in rare/fine press books has not done well as an investment strategy historically.

58ultrarightist
Giu 22, 2020, 5:38 pm

>56 grifgon: Sadly, there are not. How many illustrations does Hercules have? Are they printed from the block/plate?

59grifgon
Giu 22, 2020, 5:48 pm

There's one major illustration used as the frontispiece (maybe 3'' by 5'' or a little bigger) and then an ornamental illustration accompanying each of the twelve tales. They're printed directly from the woodblock, I believe, and they look terrific.

60RATBAG.
Giu 22, 2020, 6:47 pm

>50 dlphcoracl: I agree, James' work is something else. He sold me his personal copy of Hercules (hi James!) a while back and I absolutely fell in love with it. The printing is exquisite and on a whole other level, indeed. Thanks for the update, BTW.

61RATBAG.
Giu 22, 2020, 6:49 pm

If anyone wants to see high-res photos of Hercules up close, let me know. Would be my pleasure. It really is a nice book. :)

62Dr.Fiddy
Giu 22, 2020, 6:57 pm

>61 RATBAG.: YES, please 😊

63ultrarightist
Giu 22, 2020, 7:05 pm

>61 RATBAG.: Yes, definitely. Thanks in advance.

64booksforreading
Giu 22, 2020, 8:09 pm

>52 dlphcoracl:
You really sparked my interest in this book. It sounds extraordinary, and I now really want it, but $2000 price... Ouch...

65dlphcoracl
Modificato: Giu 22, 2020, 8:31 pm

>64 booksforreading:

Unfortunately, there is no way around it - the price tag will be in the $2,000 and above range. Expensive? Of course, but not disproportionately so compared to the forthcoming Mad Parrot Press edition of TWITW or the deluxe lettered editions (26 copies) of the Suntup Editions books. FWIW, I have suggested to James Freemantle that he permit purchases on a well-defined installment plan, which will help to bring this book into the reach of a few more collectors.

Incidentally, either later this evening or tomorrow I will post photos of his latest book 'An Albion in the Antarctic', which I consider his first major book. However, I will not do so until I receive specific clearance and approval from James since this would probably violate current copyright laws.

66dlphcoracl
Giu 22, 2020, 8:36 pm

>60 RATBAG.:
>61 RATBAG.:

Although RATBAG is quite accomplished in posting superb high-res photos of 'Hercules', you will still not be able to fully appreciate the quality and feel of the Japanese Sunome Senaka paper or the stiff Amate bark paper used for the binding. Freemantle sweats all of the details.

67dlphcoracl
Giu 22, 2020, 8:43 pm

>53 ultrarightist:

I do indeed have a copy of 'The Twelve Labours of Hercules' and it is befitting a maiden effort, a small elegant book of exceptional quality. The book measures 8.25 x 6 inches, 28 ppg., with a soft-cover Japanese stab-bound binding using Amate bark paper. James commissioned a splendid frontispiece from Harry Brockway and his judicious use of colour and the miniature wood engravings on each of the twelve title pages are both wonderful touches.

68ultrarightist
Giu 22, 2020, 8:55 pm

69Niurn
Giu 23, 2020, 4:04 am

Since I'm not figthing anymore to get into the Suntup pre-order train, i have allocated some book budget to the St. James Park Press. Thanks to all for bringing James and his work to my attention. I've ordered "Albion" ( a few copies are left according to James) and pre-ordered "King Arthur" in the special edition.

70wongie
Giu 23, 2020, 4:07 am

Considering that I just saw a numbered edition listed on ebay for $2,000 that St. James Park Press edition certainly now seems more appealing. It's now on my radar and sounds like a much better proposition than Mad Parrot's The Machine Stops for the same price.

71astropi
Giu 23, 2020, 5:16 am

What was the price of the Twelve Labors of Hercules if I may ask? Thanks in advance.

72U_238
Giu 23, 2020, 9:37 am

The latter half of this thread is great; the only unfortunate thing is it's sheltered under a topic that most would likely not bother to read.

I suppose there's no harm in asking if it's possible to move some of the discussion of St. James Park Press to its own thread?

73dlphcoracl
Giu 23, 2020, 9:53 am

>72 U_238:

The posts cannot be moved into a New Topic. However, I have started a new topic with links to all posts and relevant articles for anyone interested in these discussion and for potential buyers of the forthcoming (hopefully) St. James Park Press edition of George Orwell's '1984'. Again, James Freemantle tentatively states that he wants to begin work on '1984' this year but it remains a Work In Progress.

74MobyRichard
Modificato: Dic 6, 2020, 12:28 pm

Well, this is a first. Apparently I am single-handedly responsible for pushing this (Suntup) edition into the Out of Print abyss. :p.

To be honest probably wouldn't have bought it if wasn't the (possibly) last gift copy.

75DenimDan
Dic 6, 2020, 3:40 pm

Just out of curiosity: does Suntup use polymer plates for the letterpress editions? Apologies in advance if this has been covered already.

76jeremyjm
Dic 6, 2020, 4:02 pm

Believe most the letterpress books were printed by Bradley Hutchinson @ https://www.digitalletterpress.com/ - pics of the colophon pages are on the site. The couple I have are nicely done, and did use polymer plates.

77abysswalker
Dic 6, 2020, 7:12 pm

>76 jeremyjm: I was just looking this up for a few of their titles earlier today. In addition to Hutchinson, Robert LoMascolo did at least The Time Machine. Not sure if that covers all of them.

78SDB2012
Dic 7, 2020, 10:33 am

>75 DenimDan: plates were used.

I'm curious for you or others that are more knowledgeable about printing than I am, about plates.

I took a letterpress class years ago and spent time setting type by hand. That cured me of any desire to take up printing as a hobby. It was cumbersome to say the least. It is the most labor intensive and expensive way, I believe, to set the type.

The photopolymer plates allow a lot of creativity as they are created from a computer design. It seems to me that the plates are an evolution from linotype and monotype. I've only seen monotype and linotype in action once at a tour of Arion press. I wouldn't put a huge premium on the value of a work created by monotype or linotype over the photopolymer plates as those techniques were using machines to set the type just as the plates do now. Do others agree with me? What am I missing?

79astropi
Dic 7, 2020, 1:43 pm

>78 SDB2012: I think setting type by hand allows for the most creativity. Having done some of it years ago, I know how intensive and difficult it is, but you can always add, embellish, to it and correct mistakes, which you can't do once a photopolymer plate is produced.

80SDB2012
Modificato: Dic 7, 2020, 2:26 pm

>79 astropi: definitely agree. I don't have too many set by hand books but the out of those few, the Allen Press shows the high quality that can be achieved by hand.

81SebRinelli
Dic 7, 2020, 2:29 pm

>79 astropi: Interesting perspective. I would say it's the opposite. Setting on a computer allows for any conceivable manipulation of type, whereas past printers had to the extra mile and commission separately cut initials or whatever they wanted to have. Now, there are practically no limits and you immediately see what you get on your screen. Once you're happy with the result, you produce your plate.

82DenimDan
Modificato: Dic 19, 2020, 9:21 am

>78 SDB2012: Hand-setting type is infinitely more difficult than using photopolymer plates. But that is also the reason many people prefer fine press books be handset: there is a certain skill, artistry really, in the very act of setting type by hand that gets lost using polymer. Henry Morris (Bird & Bull Press) poked a bit of fun at Barry Moser (Pennyroyal Press) for using "plastic" on the Caxton Bible; Morris argued they were being cheap. Some might think this view snobbish, and I suppose it is, but then again there's enough elitism in book collecting to spare!

Of course, the possibilities with using polymer plates are nearly endless. I do not mean to suggest that using polymer plates is devoid of artistry; books created this way absolutely can be works of art.

I do think we're at a point where presses should be up-front about whether they're using photopolymer for their letterpress work. Not that they have anything to hide. But I think if people collect fine press books for some of the reasons I do, they should have access to that information, preferably on a colophon.

As with anything, to each his own. I prefer metal type that has been handset in the books I collect, but I don't at all look down on those who collect otherwise. I think it's silly to sit in judgment of anyone else's collecting choices, so long as everyone is honest with himself and knowledgeable about what he's collecting. Why people choose to collect what they collect is interesting to me, but again, not something I would ever tell them they're wrong about.

(How can someone be wrong to like what he likes? I collect Norton Critical Editions too. Weird, definitely. But wrong?)

83astropi
Dic 7, 2020, 5:50 pm

>81 SebRinelli: Once the plate is done, that is it! You can't really change it. With hand-setting you can do as you please, even as you go. By the way, people that are masters at hand setting do it in incredible speed! What would take me hours to do, they will be done in 30 minutes. Longer than on a computer? honestly, I'm not convinced. But, just my opinion :)

>82 DenimDan: I have no issues with photopolymer plates for letterpress. I will say, that again, I do think you get the best results by hand printing. Why? because every page is checked and the process assures the uttermost attention to detail. Of course, it also leads to numerous hours and expensive books. There's a reason why Thornwillow can produce letterpress books at such affordable prices. And a hand-set Moby Dick would NOT be cheap, although I would LOVE if some press produced a new beautiful edition of Moby Dick... I mean, the book is nearly 170 years old, isn't that a call for celebration!

84Glacierman
Dic 7, 2020, 7:30 pm

And in the in-between, there are monotype and linotype typesetting machines. And there are a lot of those still in use, believe me! There is a very healthy---if somewhat endangered---letterpress community out there and they aren't all book publishers. Few of them are, really. These folks turn out some impressive work, too.

85U_238
Dic 7, 2020, 9:21 pm

>83 astropi: You could even print Hebrew upside down if you wanted!

86gmacaree
Dic 8, 2020, 1:50 am

Count me in on the 'plates add more possibility' side. For instance, the recent Folio Society edition of 'Sappho' is only available at accessible prices because it was printed polymer; Greek metal type is hard (but not impossible) to come by! Polymer allows huge variation in design and type. I've mentioned before that polymer plates would allow us to, for instance, plausibly do a bilingual Gilgamesh in cuneiform.

With the Folio Society's recent edition of Herodotus, I'm starting to think about the possibilities of doing the "Landmark" editions of classical history in letterpress -- why not use polymer plates to weave the maps into the text? This could be done at reasonable cost if rights were secured.

87edgeworn
Dic 8, 2020, 10:02 am

>86 gmacaree: Count me in … Me too!

Although this thread has developed away from its starting point, it is an interesting discussion topic. I have grown to like the creative possibilities which polymer plate printing provides to printers and book designers.

When I first encountered the process I remember feeling that this was is some way not as 'authentic' as hand-set type. I have now matured a bit in my appreciation of the art of the book, and for me personally (as long as it is made clear that polymer plates have been used) I enjoy both the creative possibilities and the economic benefits of the technology.

The Old Stile Press is one example I am aware of which has made significant and successful use of printing from polymer plates. As an example, the photo below is one page from their version of John Keats' poem 'A song about Myself'. The whole book has been written using pen calligraphy (by Andy Moore) which is then transferred to a polymer plate. The printed page has the unusual feature that the calligraphic lines are impressed into the paper and can be felt.

Letterpress calligraphy!


88U_238
Modificato: Feb 14, 2021, 3:00 pm

.

89Raenas
Feb 14, 2021, 2:48 pm

>88 U_238:
PM sent.

90MobyRichard
Apr 13, 2021, 3:13 pm

I see 1984 numbered edition started shipping last week. Anyone receive their copy and have thoughts?
Just curious. I bought the Gift edition.

91kdweber
Apr 13, 2021, 3:29 pm

>90 MobyRichard: The plastic slipcase is very tight. This situation reminds me of the LEC's edition of Looking Backward. In a few years, I bet that it will be nigh unto impossible to remove the book from the slipcase. The letterpress and Mohawk paper are nice. There are plenty of pictures, nothing controversial. Good introduction by Joe Hill. Looks like a keeper to me.

92MobyRichard
Apr 13, 2021, 5:53 pm

>91 kdweber:

Plastic? Hmm, interesting...I guess that's better than plexiglass. I got an english translation of Vesalius, De Humani Corporis Fabrica and it was two massive volumes in a plexiglass slipcase. No surprise that it's broken now...lol.

93kdweber
Apr 13, 2021, 9:33 pm

>92 MobyRichard: I don't remember the type of plastic. Maybe plexiglass or blue tinted acrylic? I does look pretty cool.

94Nerevarine
Modificato: Apr 14, 2021, 7:31 am

>90 MobyRichard: I received it yesterday and must say it’s one of their best production of late imo. The hand painted paper boards look stunning (in and out of the case) and the book is letterpressed on a relatively good paper (it’s not as good as I am Legend’s Teton paper or The Lottery’s mouldmade one, but still very fine). Mix this with the classic story and this one is a keeper for me.

It’s definitely better than their latest offerings like Seed or Starship Troopers/Stranger in a Strange Land.

Long gone are the golden days of early Suntup imo (great quality at a good price...Misery, THoHH and The Road were total steals), but there’s still some releases here and there that I’m more than satisfied with (1984 being one of them).

>92 MobyRichard: The case is indeed in acrylic.

95MobyRichard
Modificato: Apr 14, 2021, 12:30 pm

>94 Nerevarine:

Good to know. Seems like the general pre-order consensus was negative. Excited to see the Gift Edition! I don't really blame Suntup for going cheaper. Print prices/costs just keep going up in general and I think they'll keep going up.

Careful with the slipcase. Easy to break, especially if you're moving.

96kdweber
Apr 14, 2021, 2:19 pm

>94 Nerevarine: I agree that Seed and Starship Troopers/Stranger in a Strange Land are disappointing. I prefer the FS editions of the Heinlein. I guess I'll try and sell Seed (my adult son and daughter will want the Heinlein).

97Raenas
Apr 15, 2021, 1:23 pm

>96 kdweber:
I wouldn't call them disappointing, just overpriced. I quite like the Heinlein Numbereds, but find them pricey.

98SDB2012
Apr 15, 2021, 10:11 pm

>94 Nerevarine: I agree. 1984 is one of the best Suntup productions lately and one of the best overall. The slipcase works really well with the binding and overall is uniquely cool. The letterpress work is better than in some of their other offerings. I wish there was a little bit more white space on the page but that is personal preference that may not be commonly shared.

I also agree that the days of outstanding values are long gone.

99LostStar
Apr 15, 2021, 10:21 pm

"I wish there was a little bit more white space on the page"

Totally agree. I really like that detail when I see books from the small press. I do not understand why many are scandalized or sometimes complain when they find it. If the white space is a sign that is mostly seen in the luxury editions.
For a time I bought all the limited editions of Suntup, until I couldn't continue. It is as if I no longer feel that emotion that overflowed me, however 1984, is one of the best editions that Suntup has published, after Horns, The Road, and Red Dragon, IMO.

100SDB2012
Apr 16, 2021, 12:12 pm

>99 LostStar: The Suntup Horns production is underrated in my opinion. I'm not sure why it doesn't get as much love as some productions other than it isn't a classic story we grew up with.

101Pellias
Apr 16, 2021, 2:58 pm

>100 SDB2012: `other than it isn't a classic story we grew up with` which likely somewhat answers that question. Is it a BIG enough title too compete, even if the production of it is wonderful it kind of falls into the shadows doesn`t it. Not too expensive secondhand either - like with I am Legend, pricewise. Suntup hasn`t published that much books yet, but without few exceptions it`s most verbal fans continue to look forward rather than backwards to what they hold in favor.

Example. "Everyone" talked about Blood Meridian, like it was extacy, a massive build up for weeks. Then a week after it`s publication almost nobody talks about it, like it was yesterdays darling, and now it`s not relevant before they start looking at the back catalogue. Then I`m sure Horns will pop up. I have never read Horns and have no connection with it (as of now) but I do with some other stronger names. Likely I`m not alone.

It`s a train. Moving forward. I feel sums it up - for me.