Could you change an opinion just with the use of rethoric?

While trying to learn more about the english lenguaje a pattern have appeared to me. When a writer is well versed in the art of rethoric I feel more open and willing to read/hear said person.

Is it possible to use rethoric to make the values of the people change to your favor? If so, could the values really be our so called "pillars of beign" if they can bend so easly to the will of others?

Basically, I would like to know if this could be done, and if it could, if it depends on the strenght of the values.

At the moment my beliefs go along with "It's only possible if the values where memorized but not undrestood" I hope to see your point of view in this matter.

Thank you very much for your time, and I'm sorry for my grammar mistakes.

>1 Pigeon.in.a.shelf: Is it possible to use rethoric to make the values of the people change to your favor?

I can't offer Chilean examples, but think of how the oratory of Martin Luther King broadened support for the civil rights movement in the '60s and, as a negative example, how Hitler's oratory built his support in Germany.

Similarly, rhetoric can play an important role in legal arguments in court. This is why Cicero's speeches have been studied for two thousand years.

Shakespeare gives an illustration of the effect of rhetoric in Mark Anthony's famous speech over Caesar's body in Julius Caesar in which he changes the minds of the mob from hostility to support.

In the Gorgias, Plato has Socrates show the hollowness of rhetoric and that its effectiveness has little or nothing to do with the quality of the values it promotes.

Welcome to LibraryThing!

The Phaedrus also has some useful discussion of rhetoric versus dialectic, and their respective relationships to truth and value.

Thank you very much! Oh god those books seem so interesting! I'll read them all! Thank you for your kind answer.

The best use of persuasive rhetoric I've read is in The History of the Peloponnesian War. I was amazed to find myself changing my opinion entirely as opposing characters took turns to make their arguments.

... Is it safe to assume, Pigeon.in.a.shelf, that your original opinion of "It's only possible if the values were memorized but not understood" has been shifted, based on the rhetoric of the comments? heheee

In my impression, it's not the value itself that shifts, but rather the rhetoric convinces the listener that the new idea aligns better with their values than their current belief does.

This is a great, and very important conversation, about the enormous power of rhetoric that was essentially left out of most our our primary education. I ask readers to list some of the most important rules of rhetoric, and suggest you enter them separately (with a source reference or example if possible) to encourage discussion, comments, or questions.
I'll suggest this issue: the rhetorical question. I think there are two powerful applications. First the rhetorical question (almost always used in a context where the audience has no opportunity to answer, only to think about an answer) enables the speaker to express a position or opinion without identifying it as his own (which avoids a powerful instinct in a listener to refute or mentally deny almost any assertion- or at lease question or challenge- that confronts them. In Ben Franklyn's autobiography he has an excellent section explaining that only very intelligent people like to be taught, most people tend to dislike being taught. Therefore Ben urges his readers not to act like they are teaching, nor even just giving out facts, but instead to appear to be seeking facts and truth with the audience. Ex: have you heard this, does this make sense, don't most people like that, is that popular?
Second, the rhetorical question works well as a response to another question, relieving the need to answer the first question and using the rhetoric to put the user into a higher position of control to move at will to another issue or subject.
In the Gospels Jesus uses these often, to avoid giving an answer, to change subjects and more.

>7 eschator83: I'm going to admit that I had to look up "rhetorical question" on Wikipedia, and from how I understand it, I think it could also be used to sum up what another said in different words as a way of making that first speaker understand how his words are being understood and to either reconsider his opinions or at least, his manner of expression. Like I said, I'm not too clear on what exactly rhetoric means, but this is what came to mind when I was reading about it.