The Great American Read

Okay, who wants to help me add The Great American Read award?

See https://www.pbs.org/the-great-american-read/results/

If others will help I'll take a section:

1-20 FREE
21-40 FREE
41-60 FREE
61-80 FREE
81-100 Tim

I'm thinking we do "The Great American Read (1)" etc.

Anyone in? Take a smaller group if you want. Just say what.

I'll do 1-20.

ETA: what do we do when it's a series that won and not an individual book?

Ooh, good question. First one? All?

Tough one because not all of the series are completed. If we went all, would we then add the award to future titles?

ETA: I added the award to the omnibus editions of Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia, but I'm stumped by Harry Potter. Do they mean just the novels or things like The Cursed Child and Quidditch Through the Ages?

Let's attach it to the first.

Okay, but I think I'll leave it on the omnibus editions of Lord of the Rings and Narnia. Seems appropriate for those works, especially LOTR.

There are a number on the link above that I can't identify without the author. But they have it here: https://bento.cdn.pbs.org/hostedbento-prod/filer_public/greatamericanread/TGAR_B...

I've entered series as The Great American Read (#|# (Series)).

And since I have nothing else to do tonight I can do 21-40.

I did 81-100. I'll go do the "series" thing.

Original or expanded edition of The Stand?

ETA: I went with expanded since it's the more popular work.

Urgh, what do they mean "Alice in Wonderland"?! Alice's Adventures in Wonderland? Through the Looking Glass? Both?

ETA: went with Alice's Adventures in Wonderland And Through the Looking Glass.

ETA: took a closer look at the list in >7 timspalding: and see that it says Alice's Adventure's in Wonderland, so I'll change it.

Got 41-60.

ETA: I've finished the rest of it. I've double checked it, but wouldn't mind someone taking another look. I found this page easier on the eyes.

This should be a LIST not an AWARD. PLEASE don't put it as an award

What’s your argument? There are a lot of similar awards in the system. It’s an honor people will care about, publishers will use to promote the book, etc.

It's all in how you define "award". If you read it as "recognition", it's nice to make a list. And nice to have that identified, if you want to make it a reading goal.

I'm guilty of having done all the entries for recognizing the 501 Must-Read Books, if someone wants to blame me for that.

>15 Cecrow: no blame here

>14 timspalding: It's really not an award. No physical object is being presented, no money is changing hands to be on this list. It's a positive for the book, but most of these have been around for years so it won't really change sales that much.

It's just people making a decision of what they THINK should be the top 100 books.

Yes, there are a LOT of things in the system that are NOT awards, but every time it's commented to move them over to a list, the comment of "All that Work" gets thrown around.

So I'd like to stop "All that Work" before it's done.

Why else was the List feature created than something like this?

>17 gilroy: I agree with you totally.

Conceptually, I see your argument. I have practical objections, although maybe it speaks to problems with List functionality more than anything. Taking my 501 example, there's a List version of that as well. But a) the list feature is not integrated into the book info pages, which is a minus, and b) the list is can be added to willy-nilly or blocked to one person's editing power, it's not as open. So the 501 List version is unfortunately full of duplicates, and books that don't belong, which is really irritating but I can't do anything about it, nor can most people. As an award category on the other hand, anyone can get in there and fix it, and every book page links back out to it. That feels more organized, open and maintainable, and at the moment is certainly more correct (not perfect either, but better).

Aw, bummer, I missed out on the fun.

>17 gilroy: I see where you're coming from, gilroy. I wasn't here when Lists were first introduced, but it has some collaborative features that, while not required, are a big part of what makes lists useful.

I could see this being both a list and an award—the list allowing LT members to do their own voting, for example. Lists also allow for member comments, which is neat, while awards do not.

I'm definitely in favor of this staying up as an award, though. As Tim said in >14 timspalding:, people will care about it, and it's a distinguishing note.

An award (a physical object and/or prize money) is given out to the winner by some kind of body set up to give out the award. The winner is either decided by some form of organised, popular vote, or by a jury.

"A literary award is an award presented in recognition of a particularly lauded literary piece or body of work. It is normally presented to an author.

Most literary awards come with a corresponding award ceremony. Many awards are structured with one organization (usually a non-profit organization) as the presenter and public face of the award, and another organization as the financial sponsor or backer, who pays the prize remuneration and the cost of the ceremony and public relations, typically a corporate sponsor who may sometimes attach their name to the award (such as the Orange Prize)."

(Wikipedia)

The field is called awards *and* honors, and I think it counts as an honor.

>19 Cecrow: Well, true. You just listed a few of the many things wrong with lists. That feature has always felt incomplete. Which, if you put things over there that people care about, might mean those problems would get addressed sooner than "two weeks after we finish the big project."

>23 amanda4242: I disagree. Being on any "books one should read" list, which now numbers beyond what I can consider reasonable, has stopped being an honor. It's become commonplace.

>24 gilroy: I disagree with you, but I see your point. It's becoming like a participation trophy, isn't it?

It would help if there was a clear definition of what counts as an award or honor on LT. I just looked at the awards and honors section on the CK wiki page and it's about how to enter information, not what to enter.

Sorry, this is definitely an award and honor. These books won something--they were voted the 100 most loved books in the US. This was covered in major newspapers and on the radio. You're going to see this all over their marketing. The lack of a little metallic disc, and the fact that voting wasn't limited to a small group of people don't make it less of a clear case.

An award (a physical object and/or prize money) is given out to the winner by some kind of body set up to give out the award. The winner is either decided by some form of organised, popular vote, or by a jury.

They won exposure and acclaim. That is, quite simply, the only important thing most literary awards involve. (Unless you win a Nobel, the little copper disk you may get is a mechanism for promoting the organization's logo, not the thing of value.) They get to put the little logo on their marketing materials. NPR set it up; people around the web and offline voted.

>26 timspalding: "they were voted the 100 most loved books in the US."

So 2.98-star, 7725-copy Fifty Shades of Grey is more loved than 4.23-star, 20954-copy Persuasion or 4.20-star, 10280-copy Bleak House, or 4.38-star, 21598-copy The Brothers Karamazov? I don't think so.

>26 timspalding: I know this is going to get me in trouble, but I've never been a fan of the sort of voting you are speaking of. As a primary example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_the_Angry_Drunken_Dwarf

(I should add that I personally had multiple computers voting, as did others, and I'm glad he won, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.)

Those weren't the 100 most loved books; those were the hundred books that people who were participating in that liked best. Ten years from now, the list would be populated with other things...at least I hope it would. Something that values smut over Dostoevsky hurts my soul.

>26 timspalding: These books won something--they were voted the 100 most loved books in the US.

So then you're saying if a group of 10 LT members were to create a list of the "25 Greatest Books Ever Catalogued", it would be considered an award or honor? Even if it were just 25 classics who've been selling regularly and this really won't effect their overall sales?

(As is the case with more than half of the PBS list. Harry Potter and 50 Shades don't need this for their "marketing." )

They won exposure and acclaim. That is, quite simply, the only important thing most literary awards involve.

Um, no. Most are more than that. The bigger prizes include a cash stipend and/or a trophy. The Hugo and the Nebula are more than just exposure and acclaim. The Pulitzer definitely isn't just acclaim.

Lists - and that's what this is no matter how anyone tries to shoehorn it into some kind of award - like these make me tired. The same old things are always on them and it tips to the popular and the books people remember from high school. Or the books they think they will look good voting for, knowing or having read. It's predictable and kind of useless. Charlotte's Web ... really? I guess, but it's just nostalgia and basically meaningless. My local librarian tried to foist the list on me on a visit, but I told her the same and she was pretty shocked. Thought I needed it as a way to find things to read. Funny.

>27 cpg: It was limited to one title per author, although they fudged that a bit by allowing series to be included. Pride and Prejudice, Great Expectations, and Crime and Punishment all ranked well above Fifty Shades.

>28 Lyndatrue: I'm not a fan of these types of polls either. The selections always make me think most people haven't bothered to crack a book since high school.

Yes, ten years from now the list may be different, but aren't all awards a reflection of their times? Citizen Kane didn't win an Oscar for best picture, but now it frequently tops lists of the greatest movies ever made.

So 2.98-star, 7725-copy Fifty Shades of Grey is more loved than 4.23-star, 20954-copy Persuasion or 4.20-star, 10280-copy Bleak House, or 4.38-star, 21598-copy The Brothers Karamazov? I don't think so.

LT users aren't typical. 50-Shades of Grey was a massive hit. Its sequels were massive hits. They're making them all into movies for pete's sake. In any case, it isn't about the average level of love; it's about how many people listed it as their most loved.

Those weren't the 100 most loved books; those were the hundred books that people who were participating in that liked best.

Yes. "Loved" has many different meanings and metrics.

Something that values smut over Dostoevsky hurts my soul.

Sure. But it was what it was; only positive votes counted.

So then you're saying if a group of 10 LT members were to create a list of the "25 Greatest Books Ever Catalogued", it would be considered an award or honor?

No, but if National Public Radio does, and makes a huge deal out of it, and simulcasts it online, and runs story after story about it, yes.

Are you saying that if ten LT members give Fifty Shades of Grey a baseball trophy, it's better than that?

Um, no. Most are more than that. The bigger prizes include a cash stipend and/or a trophy. The Hugo and the Nebula are more than just exposure and acclaim. The Pulitzer definitely isn't just acclaim.

Most literary awards do not come with significant money. To use only your stratospheric examples, while the Pulitzer does indeed come with $10,000, the Hugo and Nebula are both zero-money prizes. They come with a trophy, but the value is not the trophy; the value is the sales generated by the marketing value of the award. Even with the Pulitzer, the real value is in what it does to the value of ones work and career, not $10,000.

I'm not a fan of these types of polls either. The selections always make me think most people haven't bothered to crack a book since high school.

I tend to agree. These aren't very interesting to me. Nor are 1001 Books, Guardian 100, etc. But these aren't really arguments against them as awards and honors.

Maybe adding a list & polls CK field would be a good compromise. Things like the Great American Read, NY Times bestsellers, and 1001 books could be moved into the field, while the Nebula, Pulitzer, etc. and their nominees could be left in awards and honors.

>32 timspalding: "In any case, it isn't about the average level of love; it's about how many people listed it as their most loved."

Except it's not, since the makers of the survey didn't let an author's second most popular novel count in the "Top 100 Most Loved" even if it is, you know, in the top 100 most loved.

>32 timspalding: "LT users aren't typical."

Even the hoi polloi at Amazon give Persuasion, Bleak House, and The Brothers Karamazov a higher percentage of 5-star ratings than they give Fifty Shades of Grey.

>32 timspalding: Well, I filed my objection, got support, and got ignored anyway.
Don't know why I bother trying any more.

>28 Lyndatrue:, and let's not forget Boaty McBoatface. But for a book example, see what happened to the Modern Library's readers' poll for best books of the 20th Century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Library_100_Best_Novels

>36 gilroy:, what's important is that we all are heard and understood. Although ... I guess that's easy for me to say since I'm fine with Tim's decision.

I've made many changes at LibraryThing based on member's suggestions and reactions. But nobody is going to win every one.

>38 timspalding: If it's a new feature or something you didn't think of, that someone else suggested and you need help fleshing out, yes, you take suggestions.
If it's your idea and you know how you want it, it doesn't matter what anyone else says, you'll build it your way.

>39 gilroy:

There's probably some truth to that. But this is not some new thing--there are many, many awards and honors like this. If we were going to have a rule against them, we'd have stopped many more.

>40 timspalding: Exactly my point.