How many books are too many

Was forced to break down all my bookcases and put all of my books into storage, now Im completely lost. Was told that I should thinking about getting rid of all of my books for good.

Noooo I am very sorry. You are downsizing? I guess ultimately you need to make allowances for the space you have, but if space permits my belief is that you can never have too many books.

You say "Were told you should be thinking about ..." I can't say as I like that phrasing. I generally rebel when told what I should think.

My father has retained every spare plumbing, electrical and construction part that is in any condition above "utterly worthless" which has passed through his hands. The only solution upon his death will be to burn down the garage with all its contents. Nobody's budging him to reduce while he's still living. I will strive to emulate his fine example where my books are concerned.

About a decade after we left Geneva I convinced my husband to do a good deed and donate all our Genevan electric cords and converters to another colleague being transfered there. He would never have thrown them away.

When you can't get in or out of bed because of the piles of books, you might have too many.

>3 Cecrow: Are we related? When we moved cross-country my father brought dried out paint cans. (My mother's books and mine—"you don't really need all of them, do you?") Broken car parts, you name it, he kept everything. He found keys to locks for things he never owned and had to save all of them. I forget how many tons of stuff my brother had hauled away after Dad died.

When my mother died and I inherited her books, my then husband said there were too many and I should only save a few. :(

Too many books is like too much love. No such thing.

>1 ALWINN: I do hope it's not because you're going through a rough patch that you must do this. In any case, my condolences for being reduced to booklessness.

>5 Taphophile13: What excuse did your father offer for taking along those paint cans? was your house filled with the like or did he keep his hoarding under control? And, it's just occurred to me, if the cans were boxed up for or by the movers what a story they had to tell at their next tea break.

>6 bluepiano: Dad always had the same reason for keeping everything: I might be able to use it someday. (It's broken, we don't have that car or whatever anymore, etc. didn't matter.) Our house was small so it wasn't too bad but we moved into a larger house with a large shed out back. That's when stuff really began to accumulate.

No movers were involved so it's just a family story my brother and I will never forget. Luckily, my own children will only have to go through hundreds of books because I'm sane.

In my case my two small Grandchildren went into state custody little over a year ago and they have been in my home as "placement" and the social workers has decided for me that my books were "clutter" and that the 6 foot bookcases was a safety hazard since the kids may climb on a lower shelf and pull the books on their head. Mind you they have been in my home for over 2 years and nothing like that has happened yet. So I have broke down 2 6ft and 2 3ft bookcases and boxed up all my books and now they are in storage. I miss my beloved books and I find myself very angry and resentful.

>Crecrow: Normally I am the same way, Im not a little kid that needs to be told what I can and cant have in the privacy of my own home. As long as I don't have illegal drugs or fire arms that can actually hurt them but BOOKS............... and yes I did have a spot that they could reach that was their books and they knew that those were the only books that they could take all the others were mine.

>8 ALWINN: First of all, how wonderful that you are willing and able to care for your grandchildren. Not all grandparents step up as you have.

Secondly, "clutter"!? Really? Perhaps that social worker isn't a reader. Would it be possible to secure the bookcases with a strap to the wall the way TVs and dresser mirrors are being done these days? One of the important life lessons all children should learn is "this is yours; that is not yours."

I would be in a bad mood too if I couldn't have my books. And how do you raise thinking children without books in the house?

>8 ALWINN:, that's nuts. We did fostering at once point, and had a large, very climbable bookcase at the time that wasn't even secured to the wall and they didn't say anything about it. I took the liberty of doing something about that unasked, but it goes to show it's all about the individual that comes to inspect and what kind of checklist they have. Even between my town and the next, I find these rules vary a lot.

>9 Taphophile13:, I think he's saying it was the books themselves that were cited as a hazard, not even the bookcase.

>8 ALWINN: I understand your fury. I grew up in a house where the lounge was floor-to-ceiling books. I never had any accidents with them, and I was reading fluently by the age of 3: "All those stories...just waiting for me to be able to read for myself..." - it was a powerful motivation (and I was a LOT older before I realised that some books are not worth reading!)

But my parents' library was a system of frames screwed to the wall, from which shelves hung, on metal brackets. If your home is capable of taking such fixtures, maybe an alternative like that would satisfy your officious social workers?

ETA: If you pack the books tightly together enough on the shelves, then little fingers cannot dislodge them. That may be a little inconvenient, but less so than completely losing access to your collection.

Another solution is shelves attached the wall, well above kid reach.

Oh, never mind, that's pretty much the same suggestion again. :P

>8 ALWINN: Wait. The books were neatly packed on shelves, and they declared the bookshelves and their contents "Clutter" ?!?!?!?

What is wrong with this person? Have they no sense of imagination? Of adventure? Of life lessons?
(I dropped a book on my head at the library at age 5. Didn't suffer any significant trauma. Just developed a weird sense of what I like to read.)

The cases were packed enough that the bookcases nor the books were going anywhere. My Grandson is 4 years and my Granddaughter is 2 1/2 and not once has there been an accident like Taphophile13 pointed out I have been teaching the kids these are your books and these are mine. When the social worker came in and made a comment so now that the bookcases and books are all gone don't that give you more room. Well for 1 just how much floor space does a bookcase take up? And I feel like a piece of me are missing, my book collection wasn't just some cheap mass market paper backs I have many popular author bind ups such as William Faulkner, John Steinbeck, F Scott Fitzgerald, Mark Twain just to name a few that has the gold gilded pages. And to think they are now sitting in a box in a storage unit. The social worker even said something to the fact that if they need entrainment I should think about investing in a gaming system with age appropriate games. ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?!?!?!

Its a known fact that if kids grown up in a house with books they are more likely to read more as they get older.

>14 ALWINN:, I have heard that same fact. It is apparently an even bigger factor than being read to.

Video games are not as good for children as books. There is no debate. There's a reason why I'm encouraged to keep a log of how much my son reads and deliver the total to his teacher at the end of each month. She does not ask how many hours he spends playing video games. And if she did, it would be with the intention of curbing it.

Wow, I'm getting vicariously mad about this on your behalf. It would hardly take any time to research and compile a binder of this stuff and present that to her. Or the reverse: request her to please provide you with information that will back up her claim that exposure to electronic gaming is superior to literature.

The sad truth however, is that empirical evidence makes little headway in these situations. I've seen it. These workers are convinced they've seen the one right way to raise children and you'd better conform or else you're under suspicion. It takes incredibly little resistance to set them off. Being agreeable and nodding your head and positively responding to every suggestion is the only right way to dodge every landmine, however peculiar and maddening it may be.

Children's vision and screen time:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/screen_time/2017/12/21/does_ipad_and_computer_use_har...

Your grandchildren sound much too young to just hand them video games.

Yes you have a young social worker with this Degree with something to prove so in her eye of course she knows best. Plus me being the Grandmother and not a "Foster Parent" I get the feel and judgmental tone IF YOU WOULD HAVE RAISE YOUR DAUGHTER BETTER THEN WE WOULDNT BE HERE!!!!!

And you are so correct the angrier and more resentful I get Im hit with IF YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE by such and such date the children will be removed. Im 48 years old and Im not very good at just being agreeable and nodding my head just to pacify some educated idiot.

>17 ALWINN: Unfortunately you are not the first person I have known this happen to. People who are non-readers often seem to have a prejudice against those who do; and when they also have a position of power, the results can be nasty.

You didn't have anything on your shelves that she could have taken offence to, did you? I don't mean this-is-unsuitable-around-children material; I am thinking more of this-demonstrates-a-political-standpoint-that-I-dislike.

I have never heard anyone try to claim that video games are better for young children than books before!

I read a lot of the classic and off of the 1001 list. I have a lot of Dickson, Hardy, Stephen King and Harry Potter. I don't read stuff like the 50 shades of Gray but even if I did the kids are only 4 and 2. So I have a little of every genre on my shelves. Plus books unless you get into graphic novels in order for the inappropriate contexts has to be read. It's not like a porn collection and a little kid pops it in the DVD player.

But the question has to be if the children in your care are clean, clothed, fed and most of all loved and cared for just how much control and personal prejudices such be allowed from social workers.

>19 ALWINN: I think you misunderstood me - I was NOT suggesting that you had inappropriate content around!

But her approach seems to me so unreasonable that it occurred to me that her real issue might be with your politics (or something like that); not being able to say that, she has resorted to finding an excuses to dispose of your reading collection as a whole.

I agree with you completely. Of course no one wants a child to be at risk of harm, but the goal has to be for them to be loved, protected, cared for and provided with the necessities you have listed - not subjected to the nebulous deals of a third party.

Your desire to take care of your grandchildren has exposed you to a lot of unreasonable hassle - and unfortunately, may continue to do so Hang in there!

>19 ALWINN: Hugs. Unreasonable prejudice from a person who has way too much power over your life.

I hope the social worker moves on so that you can continue raising your grandchildren in a home that represents your values and meets your needs.

The whole situation is difficult. I keep coming back to...

Hugs.

The sad part in all of this is to her this is a job that she will p probably move on from, but this is my life. I shouldn't have to be worried about them just being ripped out of my life. I get this horrible feeling that she is waiting until after Christmas and make a sneaky move. It's Christmas and I'm getting to the point of getting so depressed.

Why does this Bill Hicks sketch come to mind? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBG3zEEhAvw

Is there any higher authority you can appeal to? This kind of determination sounds quite high handed of her.i am very sorry this is happening. I hope that she’ll be reassigned soon and her replacement will be a more reasonable person.

It doesn’t sound open to appeal. The worker did not explicitly say screen time is better than books, so that can’t be held against her. It’s just the result.

ALWINN,

I cannot urge you strongly enough to hire a lawyer, if you haven't done so already.

ALWINN, given especially the patronising remark about now having more room in the house, I wonder if it's possible the social worker demanded removal of the books off her own bat & without authorisation, perhaps wanting you to meet her own standards of housekeeping which of course would be irrelevant to the children's welfare. Might it be feasible to ring/write a higher-up in her department & ask with a sincere, confused manner what limits are placed on one's library, explaining why you're so worried. They might well be unaware one of their workers has set this requirement. I doubt that even in the US owning books disqualifies one as a placement carer, at least for now. (As others have said, the bookshelves can be made safe.)

That is an excellent suggestion from bluepiano. I understand why, with the social worker's veiled threats, you do not feel in a position to challenge her demands, but an enquiry phrased in terms of wanting advice about how to "do things correctly" cannot be used against you.

Stress your desire to encourage your grandchildren's reading by instilling an early love of books.

Might it be feasible to ring/write a higher-up in her department & ask with a sincere, confused manner what limits are placed on one's library, explaining why you're so worried.

an enquiry phrased in terms of wanting advice about how to "do things correctly" cannot be used against you.

I cannot recommend that. The minute you go over this person's head, you have made a dangerous enemy. She may very well use it against you, claiming "non-cooperation" and that sort of nonsense.

This is serious stuff. Don't try to handle it on your own. As I said in >26 lilithcat:, hire a lawyer. A lawyer well-versed in juvenile court/custody proceedings. A lawyer who knows how this agency works. She will know how to navigate these waters. You don't, and you could just end up making things harder.

(I say this as someone who worked in the court system for 35 years, and did a lot of juvenile court work.)

Thanks everyone

Books are like whiskey: too much is just right.

Re. >29 lilithcat: If possible, find a lawyer who has read Fahrenheit 451, because that's how it starts.

That social worker is an affront to sentient life.

>30 ALWINN: I know you may well have too much on your plate at the moment to mess about posting here, but if you're so inclined please don't hesitate to let us know how things are going. And I'm full sure that I'm not the only one hoping that all goes well for you. Good luck.

Thank you everyone so far just trying to maintain, but still missing my books.

>3 Cecrow:
When we cleaned out our parents' storage unit we had a box of miscellaneous hardware. I called it junk and wanted to toss it, but my brother said that people would actually buy that stuff.

We put it all into one milk crate and marked it "Box of hardware - $2"

One guy rummage through and held up a couple of hinges, asking "how much?" I said, "It's $2 for the whole box"
"No, I just want these hinges"
"Okay - 25 cents each"
So he rummages through the box and finds 10 things he wants and happily pays me $2.50

The box is still "full" and still marked "$2 for the box"

Sure enough in a little while another person holds something up and asks "How much?" We go through the same routine.

Ultimately we made $18 off that box of junk.

If you don't have a passion for reading or whatever it will be seen as JUNK and cluttered appearance.

Since I have been on this quest to read the 1001 books to read before you die there are many books that I will not be able to borrow from the library and so if I see a copy at an estate sale or garage sale I go ahead and pick it up. But to a non-reader having several different bookcase that are full etc they would take the stance that all those books are just junk and should be given away because they are just clutter. To a reader your eyes open real big lets go over and check out what is on the shelf.

And the big difference between a hoarder and a collector I know what book I have and where it is located at a Hoarder you have no idea what you have and where it may be.

>35 BookConcierge:, so they were good for something after all, lol. And your buyers demonstrated wisdom in only buying what they needed, so everybody wins.

>36 ALWINN:, it is almost impossible for me to visit anyone's house, spot books on a shelf, and not go see what the titles are. Sometime this is done slyly, but it is always done. And I have been disappointed I don't know how many times to discover the owner has read few or none of them, but that's another topic.

I may make the mistake of claiming I own something that I no longer do, thanks to occasional weeding. I don't make the mistake of claiming I own something that I never have. I doubt there's any book I own that I could not quickly locate (barring those weeded examples), despite my collection being sorted in no logical way at the moment.

I hope your storage is accessible, for the occasional peruse. I can't imagine why anyone would recommend you get rid of them "for good". Ask that person what the last book they read was, could be interesting. And subsequently work things you've learned from reading into conversation, citing your sources.

No my beloved books are not that accessible since I have over 20 boxes in storage and I have to admit I know where there were on a shelf but not which box. So until I can get these people up and out of my life one way or another for good or get a big enough place they will have to stay in boxes. But to get rid of them is out of the question. So my collector author bind ups with gold gilded pages will have to be happy in a box for a while.

>37 Cecrow: The trouble with your plan is that you'd have the sneaking suspicion that the answer might just be : "I read a book once. It was green."

>35 BookConcierge: Not surprising but stilll, that's interesting. I wonder had you put empty paint tins (>5 Taphophile13:) in the crate would you have had eager buyers. Odds are you would have done, but god alone knows why.

>38 ALWINN: I hope you get your books back soon. In the meantime I hope you have a decent library nearby.

>38 ALWINN: Remember that Project Gutenberg and the like give you access to a lot of the classics online. I prefer reading paper books to electronic copies too, but at least it would mean that you do not have to put your quest to read the "1001 Books To Read Before You Die" totally on hold.

>40 bluepiano:, empty paint tins (with the lids) are great for keeping oily rags in, in case they spontaneously combust. No joke.

>38 ALWINN:, maybe label the boxes with their contents, so you can at least find stuff? I briefly went the box route, speaking from experience. Also worth a second look anyway to ensure they're packed well. I had a couple get bent out of shape.

I pack them my self and the best boxes to use when packing book is going to a liquor store and get boxes from there, that way they don't get too heavy and the books don't get too banged up if you pack them tight enough. I will be moving in the next month or so and hoping to have enough room to be able to put them back out.

Getting rid of all your books?
that sounds like nothing a divorce couldn't easily correct.

>45 nowos482:, someone's not following the conversation.

Update there is a court date Feb 7 my daughter has informed me she is going to sign all her rights away, but with that being said that doesn't mean the kids will stay with me. I have talked to several different lawyers and most are saying $5500. I have also tried to call Legal aid and was told they do not have the funding to take on this kind of case. So right now boys and girls I am just stuck in limbo.

They are forcing a move on me which will happen next weekend on the 1st of Feb. All I can say is God be with me at this point.

If you've been cooperative to this point with all suggestions, the kids are happy with you, and there's been no "incidents" over the duration of the placement, I'd expect the odds are pretty good that a judge will find in your favour. The preference is always to keep children with blood relatives whenever possible. Some kind of financial assessment will enter the picture, however, to ensure you can provide for them.

>47 ALWINN: Sounds like an awfully stressful situation, but I wish you the best of luck!

I have always worked so as far as providing for them is not an issue. The only thing Im worried about is this social worker that seems like she is hell bend against me. Plus if push comes to shove I will have to go ahead and get a 2nd job to get a lawyer for the adoption process.

Is a lawyer required of you for the adoption to happen? When your daughter signs away her rights, your grandchildren become wards of the state/province. May be different where I am, the child protection agency here looks after those costs here as part of their mandate to re-home the children they assume this care for. That way they won't going to miss out on putting a child in what everyone agrees is the best home available just because that home has trouble paying a lawyer fee.

When/if adoption goes through, I'd expect social workers are gone. Poof, bookshelves come back, everything's your say again.

Alwinn I hope this works out for you very soon and you don't have to deal with the social worker once the final custody arrangement has been made.

I am being told that I will need to find a lawyer. To be honest with you Im not sure what my next step needs to be. All I know is I don't have $ 5500 sitting around. I just hope and pray they don't take them out of my placement, these two are my world right now and I just don't know how will I go on knowing they are out there and I don't get to wake up to them every morning.

Do you have a United Way in your area? They sometimes are able to assist you to find a low to no cost lawyer based on need.

>51 Cecrow:

Cecrow, I know you are trying to help. But having read the entire thread, you will know that the children's social worker is antagonistic towards Alwinn, and the courts put great weight on the social worker's recommendation. It is not a foregone conclusion that the children would be placed with a relative.

That is why it is important that, if at all possible, she get a lawyer who has dealt with the agency and is familiar with the family court practices in that jurisdiction.

Im just taking everything one day at time. I get to start the moving process next weekend so we shall see.

>55 lilithcat:, you're right, it's a different situation than what I'm familiar with so that's good advice. I know the angle from a non-relative fostering perspective, but this scenario is more like a holding pattern for minimizing impact on the kids while things are progressing through the court, with no guarantees. And on that note it's less surprising they expect the grandparent to pay her own lawyer bill (unfortunate as that is).

Still hoping the best for you, Alwinn.

It seems when you are a kinship placement you are pretty much on your own. I have a friend that is actually I licensed Foster care parent and I get $240 a month where if they took two kids they would receive $1200 to $1500 a month. And they have adopted a little girl that was placed with them as a foster kid and the state provided a lawyer at no cost for the adoption process.

>44 ALWINN: Ha, I used liquor store boxes all the time in my many college moves, mostly for books!

Im so sorry all this is happening to you and to your grand kids. I used to think I wanted to foster, but I have heard so many horror stories over the years that my heart just wouldn't be able to take it. Im hoping all goes well with you and this nightmare will end.

>7 Taphophile13: My parents grew up during the Depresssion and never threw anything out. When we moved my mom from her home of 30 years to a condo, we thought we'd gotten rid of quite a bit of clutter - only to find it back at the condo. She had gone back to the house after we left, went into the garbage and pulled it out.

>5 Taphophile13: My husband cannot complain that I have too many books because he has too many Legos!! We keep each other happy that way!

I do go through my books every year or so to weed out the books that I bought years ago and still haven't read, or the books that I don't really care about keeping. Its helped to keep my shelves from totally overloading.

Well I have to say the "monthly Meeting" did not go so well and court will probably be even worst next week. The other night I was slammed with well it looks like we were able to give around $500 of the $2400 but you managed to get the move covered. With that being said you need to start working with such and such for weekly budget review. I was like wait what and for WHAT???? Well to make sure everything is being taken care of. Look here I am damn near 50 years old I have worked in Accounting (payables) for 25 years, Have an associates degree in accounting I can handle my own finances without supervision. I was then asked "Why are you so angry and defensive?" OH if you only knew how I really felt if you just think Im angry......... My rent is the first thing that gets paid every single month. My utilities has never been shut off nor have I ask for any type of asst from your agency or anyone else. There is more then enough food in the pantry and the freezer is full. The kids have clean clothes that fit. I have already provided proof of income sooo I don't understand the need for a weekly budget review. Im angry because it seems like since Nov ya'll seem to be blindsiding me everytime I turn around with demands. I know when only $500 was provided both of you just knew I was going to fall flat on my face but I have been on my own since I was 18 years old and when it came to the point of sinking or swimming in the ocean of life there has been nobody to throw me a life preserver. Im not the one that let me life get so far out of control that the state had to come in and take custody of my children. Do I need to remind everyone that Im the Grandmother of these two that stepped up to the plate so they wouldn't be lost in the foster care system. I feel attacked, insulted and disrespected.

It seems like there’s an inherent injustice in a system that is forcing you to pay legal bills to defend against them at the same time as they are going to monitor your budget. In what world does that make sense. Maybe your lawyer can make some hay with that to get them off your back where your budget is concerned.

(The obvious budget ‘solution’ being, don’t keep dragging you through court, forcing moves, etc)

Yes, it is a Catch-22 situation:
"if you can pay your bills, then you obviously don't need our help"
"if you can't pay your bills, then the ruling will go against us, regardless of our legal bills".

I know it hurts.
Just remember that it (probably) is nothing personal.
They are treating you this way because that is the way they treat everyone.
They are busy, they don't make emotional connection (because that would impinge on their 'neutrality'); so they don't look at you.
They don't see your financial background; they don't ask themselves "is it likely this lady knows how to balance a budget?"
They see "Money is tight in this household".
What is the textbook solution?
"Review budget regularly".
So that is what they do.

It takes less effort that looking at your problems and admitting that the situation they are creating is the cause of them.

And because they are operating "by the book", they will feel angry and defensive that you are not as grateful as they think you should be when they are "only doing their jobs".

>62 Guanhumara:, that's the ticket. That's their side of the fence. Super difficult to see it from their perspective, but there it is. They have to tick the boxes to show due diligence, follow the procedure, chase the flowchart, or their jobs go on the line when under review. What makes it tough is some of them get so good at that, pride themselves so well on how strictly they pursue it, they forget the hearts and emotions being dealt with. And when they do remember, it is always the kids first (fair enough, but ...), never the adults in the situation.

Well, for the problem you had for the books, maybe you could ask the social worker if there was any way around it? I do understand how the books can be a 'hazard' (even coins are considered hazards when around children!), given that someone has already mentioned that when he/she was much younger, he/she pulled out a book in the library and it fell on his/her head. Although there was really no serious effects to it (I doubt the social worker actually felt that a falling book would kill or paralyse the children), it is still a 'hazard' by today's standard.

I'm thinking about locked bookcases, would those work? Kinda solves the issue, does it not?

>62 Guanhumara:. The thing is Im not the parent that messed up in the first place, I was the grandparent that stepped to the plate to take the kids. I have a good friend that is actually a licensed foster care parent in the same state and he even said there is something that is not right, he and his wife as to produce check stubs once a year and all but not once have they had to "work" with someone on a regular bases to make sure bills are being paid. He said it sounds like Im being treated like the parent that has to prove something to get my kids back. I have had these kids for over 2 1/2 years and this is the first time for "budget concerns."

This social worker has always been nitpicky from day one and that is fine I just correct what she wants and keep it moving but it seems like Since Nov everytime I turn around she is blindsiding me with something. Now that I put my books into storage, The move will be completed very soon I just have to ask what is next. My china cabinet with my china in it. When will enough be enough.

>64 Lim_See_Min: To be honest by todays standard what is not an hazard. The stove is a hazard but still have to have a working stove to cook and prepare meals on. A bathtub and water is a hazard but running water is still required for bathing. A shoestring on one shoes is a tripping hazard and I can go on and on. Unless the kid is wrapped in bubble wrap live can be one big hazard. I have my home child proof as well as I can get it.

As far as a locked bookcases don't most of those have a glass front well that would also be a safety hazard if the glass front were to break.

>63 Cecrow: When you are in this line of work they cant forget the hearts and emotions of even the adults. I have given up a lot to take care of these kids, Im working at a job that Im bored to tears so I could make this move, my youngest is 17 years old and I should be able to start downsizing instead of going the other way upsizing for the sake of the kids, I have given up my freedom and social life to take care of these two. Yes I choose to do all of this because I love them and they didn't choose to be in this world but do I have to give up everything that make me "ME"? Being a social worker is dealing with live breathing PEOPLE not a text book, If they get angry and defensive because Im not grateful for "only doing their jobs" how do they think I feel by picking up the slack because my daughter choose not to do her "job" by her kids and I step in and I feel berated, belittle, my intelligence is insulted and most of all I feel disrespected. If a social worker gets to the point they forget the hearts and emotions of the people they are dealing with are they even effective anymore? Are they even helping anyone anymore? By removing the kids from my home because I think its insulting to have to submit to a weekly budget review are they doing the kids any justice by ripping them from 2 people that have loved and taken care of them most of their life?

I know I am venting and ranting here and I Thank each of you for letting me to do so.

>65 ALWINN:

It's not uncommon for foster parents to be treated differently from family members who take kids in, in part because to become a foster parent in the first place, you have to go through a vetting process.

>66 lilithcat: Im not considered to be a "Foster Parent" but a kinship placement. Which means I don't get anywhere near the funds a regular foster parent would get we only receive about 25%. Plus for the adoption process a Foster Parent the state provides a lawyer free of charge a Kindship I have to pay for my own lawyer. A Foster Parent has a social worker assigned and the kids have their social worker. Kinship do not have a social worker working with us personally to voice my concerns or what have you.

>67 ALWINN:

That was my point. There's a difference in the way family placement and foster placements are treated.

>65 ALWINN: PLEASE don't think that I am approving the way the social workers are treating you!

But, as you are well aware, their involvement is something that you have to endure in order to look after your grandkids; it might be easier to bear to realise that they are not disrespecting you personally. This is simply how they treat everybody. (In some cases, it might be appropriate, in your case it is not.)

I don't know the American system, but I think lilithcat is right; you are under more scrutiny now because you are getting the type of investigation that foster parents receive BEFORE they are allowed into the fostering system (which, in my country at any rate, is incredibly intrusive and patronising).

Unfortunate social workers who are truly empathic, caring people, who get emotionally involved in their work, often do not last long. The cases of truly horrific abuse that they see are too traumatic for them So the ones who tend to stay in the job are the ones who detach their emotions and treat it as just a job, and simply do everything "by the book".

And it's OK to rant here. You need a space to do so, in order to be able to go back to jumping through their hoops...

"The cases of truly horrific abuse" are the reason they're so picky. Most such agencies in the States are underfunded and understaffed, and the case workers are horrendously overworked. But god forbid she should miss something and a kid dies. She'll be pilloried in the press.

Yeah so lets waste resource by having another person for a weekly budge review.

>65 ALWINN:
Yes, that is what I meant. I think you've misunderstood me, I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm not condemning you at all! It's just that by today's standards (yes I agree that today's standards are really incomprehensible), which the social worker probably went by, I do understand how it could be a 'hazard'.

The glass could shatter but well, like I just said, today's standards are incomprehensible! It wouldn't hurt to ask, I think? (Sorry if I seem too naive) I am, sincerely, just trying to provide a possible solution.

>72 Lim_See_Min: Im sorry I honestly don't mean to bite... please forgive me

>72 Lim_See_Min: Often "today's standards" are not designed to protect people but to safeguard employers and institutions from being liable should an accident happen. Most people are sensible enough not to put themselves into situations in which they might injure themselves, or others, but if they are explicitly told it is unsafe and they still do it, then they can't turn around and blame their employer for putting them in an unsafe situation.

ALWINN ... how are you doing? I've been thinking of you and your grandbabies.

Still holding on my daughter has signed her rights away, and the court set a trail date of May 31 to strip the the rights or the fathers. Im in the process of filling out the adoption mountain of paperwork and after that just praying that I will be able to adopt.

Okay ... sounds like slow progress. I'll keep you and your grandchildren in my prayers. Hang in there.

Well another twist now the 2 fathers have decided they have taken in interest at the 10th hour. So with the boy they have set up visit starting the 23rd and if that goes well they will change reintegration with his father so that will be another year to see if can get custody. Now the little girl if her father is out of prison by May 31 (The Trail date) the same thing will happen. So if this happens the only hope I have is they cant complete the task the court sets, because after all no matter how bad the actual parents are they still have more rights then I the grandmother will ever have. Then don't get me start what will actually be best for the little lives this will mostly impact. Both have a history of drug use, pimping and physical violence and the one in prison is a career drug dealer this is his 3rd time in prison in the last 5 years.

Oh I am so sorry about this situation! I really hope you are able to get custody soon and sounds like the most the fathers *should* be able to expect (if the system looked at the individual situation, which I understand is not how it sounds like your state/locality operates), would be supervised visitation conditioned on payment of child support.

Yes it will be supervised visits and if child support is issued it goes to the state not me.

A friend of mine commented and said with all these plot twist and turns this whole situation would be a good read.