How to date an undated world map
ConversazioniMaps and Atlases
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2klarusu
>1 reading_fox: That's so good.
3wcarter
>1 reading_fox:
Love it, and might actually use it (or parts of it).
Love it, and might actually use it (or parts of it).
4stellarexplorer
I see someone else has the same pleasure. One of my favorite activities is this very act of figuring out the date from the politics of a map or globe.
5AurelArkad
Interesting chart, reading_fox.
Yes, one looks for those countries which changed in one way or another. In Western Europe since 1700 CE, for example:
Is Norway united to Denmark or Sweden, or an independent country?
Are Alsace and Lorraine in France or Germany?
Have Italy and Germany each been united into one country?
If Germany is not yet united, is it made up of a host of often tiny political units, or has Napoleon's mediatization ruthlessly combined most of them into a much smaller number of states?
Is Venice, with its hinterland, still an independent state, or is it part of the Austrian Empire or of Italy?
Is Neuchatel a French principality, a possession of the King of Prussia, or a full canton of Switzerland?
Is Belgium a separate state, a part of the Netherlands, or an outlying part of the Holy Roman Empire?
Even sticking to Western Europe since 1700, a number of other clues could be listed. And there are other times, and other parts of our world.
Aurélien Arkadiusz
Yes, one looks for those countries which changed in one way or another. In Western Europe since 1700 CE, for example:
Is Norway united to Denmark or Sweden, or an independent country?
Are Alsace and Lorraine in France or Germany?
Have Italy and Germany each been united into one country?
If Germany is not yet united, is it made up of a host of often tiny political units, or has Napoleon's mediatization ruthlessly combined most of them into a much smaller number of states?
Is Venice, with its hinterland, still an independent state, or is it part of the Austrian Empire or of Italy?
Is Neuchatel a French principality, a possession of the King of Prussia, or a full canton of Switzerland?
Is Belgium a separate state, a part of the Netherlands, or an outlying part of the Holy Roman Empire?
Even sticking to Western Europe since 1700, a number of other clues could be listed. And there are other times, and other parts of our world.
Aurélien Arkadiusz
6thorold
>5 AurelArkad:
...and you listed all those without ever mentioning Poland!
There are even a few physical indicators as well as all the political ones: the shape of the Dutch coastline, for instance, will let you get within half a century or so of a date.
And towns and cities that pop up out of nowhere - new capitals like Karlsruhe and Berlin, or industrial cities like Manchester and Bradford that wouldn't have been worth mentioning on any but the most detailed maps before the mid-18th century.
...and you listed all those without ever mentioning Poland!
There are even a few physical indicators as well as all the political ones: the shape of the Dutch coastline, for instance, will let you get within half a century or so of a date.
And towns and cities that pop up out of nowhere - new capitals like Karlsruhe and Berlin, or industrial cities like Manchester and Bradford that wouldn't have been worth mentioning on any but the most detailed maps before the mid-18th century.
7AurelArkad
>6 thorold:
The shape/location/frontiers of Poland is indeed a major clue to dating a map of Europe. As is the political status of Ireland. And whether is Oslo is so named, or labelled as Christiana.
And there are more challenges than the fascinating one of dating paper maps, and on-line scans of paper maps.
These days, many us reading this thread will also download attractive maps from the web, be they real-world, fantasy, science-fiction, or maps intended for role-playing gaming. There are times when what at first sight appears to be an authentic map of an earlier time will stray over the line into fantasy. For example, it would be possible to insert a small invented state into a detailed map of the Holy Roman Empire without this being immediately obvious to some viewers. Of course, a name like Ruritania would rather give the game away.....
Aurélien Arkadiusz
The shape/location/frontiers of Poland is indeed a major clue to dating a map of Europe. As is the political status of Ireland. And whether is Oslo is so named, or labelled as Christiana.
And there are more challenges than the fascinating one of dating paper maps, and on-line scans of paper maps.
These days, many us reading this thread will also download attractive maps from the web, be they real-world, fantasy, science-fiction, or maps intended for role-playing gaming. There are times when what at first sight appears to be an authentic map of an earlier time will stray over the line into fantasy. For example, it would be possible to insert a small invented state into a detailed map of the Holy Roman Empire without this being immediately obvious to some viewers. Of course, a name like Ruritania would rather give the game away.....
Aurélien Arkadiusz
