Lilisin in 2013

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Lilisin in 2013

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1lilisin
Modificato: Nov 21, 2013, 5:24 pm

I'm always excited to start a new thread in the wonderful Club Read group. My thread will continue in the same style as always and my reading will probably follow the same pattern of mainly reading Japanese and French books. Although I read some good books last year, as a whole I felt the year was a bit lackluster. I'd like to fix that in 2013 and find some real gems that really make me sing praise. Would also like to read a minimum of 15 books and strive for 20. Seems strange that a supposedly avid reader such as myself should only be reading 13 books a year. I'm not that busy after all. In any case, I'm happy to spend another year with all the members of Club Read.

So far in 2013:
1) Amelie Nothomb : Peplum
2) Takashi Nagai : The Bells of Nagasaki
3) Colette : Chéri
4) Yukio Mishima : Sun and Steel
5) Kobo Abe : Secret Rendezvous
6) Haruki Murakami : 色彩を持たない多崎つくると、彼の巡礼の年 (Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage)
7) Banana Yoshimoto : アルゼンチンババア (Argentine Hag)
8) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 1
9) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 2
10) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 3
11) Kenzaburo Oe : Hiroshima Notes

2lilisin
Modificato: Dic 5, 2012, 3:33 pm

Books read in 2012:
1) Haruki Murakami : 1Q84
2) Shusaku Endo : When I Whistle
3) Nawal El-Saadawi : Zeina
4) Hikaru Okuizumi : The Stones Cry Out
5) Kobo Abe : The Face of Another
6) Alexandre Dumas : La Reine Margot
7) Amelie Nothomb : Tuer le pere (Kill the Father)
8) Ryu Murakami : Almost Transparent Blue
9) 村上 龍 : 限りなく透明に近いブルー ​
10) Seicho Matsumoto : Tokyo Express (Points and Lines)
11) Yukio Mishima : Le marin rejete par la mer (The Sailor who fell from Grace with the Sea)
12) Marguerite Duras : L'amant (The Lover)
13) Guy de Maupassant : Une vie (Life of a Woman)
----
Countries represented:
Japan x8
France x3
Belgium
Egypt
----
Languages read:
English x6
French x6
Japanese

3lilisin
Modificato: Dic 5, 2012, 3:38 pm

My group, Author Theme Reads, will be focusing on France for 2013. Below are the authors we will be focusing on. I welcome any and all to join us for what shall be another exciting year of reading. Also, I'd like to thank everyone as the group enters its fifth year.

Year-long Author: Emile Zola
Mini-author 1 (Jan-Mar): Honore de Balzac
Mini-author 2 (Apr-June): Guy de Maupassant
Mini-author 3 (July-Sep): Marguerite Duras
Mini-author 4 (Oct-Dec): Simone de Beauvoir

+ Year long thread on French authors in general.

Group read of Victor Hugo's Toilers of the Sea starts in January.

Along those same lines, this is the thread where I go more in detail with my Japan reads. It's my attempt at conglomerating every Japan read together and comparing them so as to become wiser about my favorite lit.

4mene
Dic 19, 2012, 4:52 pm

>2 lilisin:
You read the same book in English first and then in Japanese? Was the translation any good, or was the Japanese book better?

I didn't read any French yet this year - but I have some French books on my TBR pile, so I'll get to those in 2013.

5lilisin
Dic 19, 2012, 5:06 pm

I read them simultaneously actually with the Japanese version always being a few pages ahead so that the English didn't affect my understanding of the Japanese version. The translation was actually pretty much on point but of course the Japanese version is still better. You can see my final thoughts on the books here if you're interested.

You should definitely get to those French books!
Thanks for visiting my thread.

6mene
Dic 19, 2012, 5:23 pm

Ah, that's useful :) I haven't read anything by Murakami Ryu yet (only by other Japanese authors), but if I do I'll just read the Japanese version.

But I thought she made the main female character sound like an idiot when really she was just speaking through a dialect
Translating dialects probably is difficult. I once read an article (targeted at professional translators) which gave the tip to translate a dialect/accent into a dialect of your own language with a similar "stereotype" (for example, a certain dialect is often used for 'comic people' in a certain language and then you should choose the dialect that's most often used for such a situation in your own language, if it exists).

7lilisin
Dic 19, 2012, 5:38 pm

Dialects will always be difficult to translate but there should be times when the translator has to consider the character. Yes, they might speak with an accent, but what does this say about them as a person. I like that the translator of the Murakami tried to match the accent in English, but I feel the translator failed in matching the character. That was my problem.

I see you have a lot of manga in your catalog (I don't enter my manga). I was amused 'cause I saw you had ふしぎ遊戯 which I just started re-watching the anime. I saw it for the first time in high school so it's bringing back very fond memories! I'm curious as to your level in Japanese and French. And it seems you speak another language as well.

8mene
Dic 19, 2012, 6:23 pm

I never watched the Fushigi Yuugi anime, though I really LOVE the manga. My sister, who did watch it a bit, said Miaka's voice was supersuper irritating and that she liked Miaka when reading the manga, but not in the anime. As my sister generally likes the same kind of anime, I am not much in a hurry to watch the Fushigi Yuugi anime... (I have some other ones I want to watch first anyway). I am waiting for the next Genbukaiden (ふしぎ遊戯玄武開伝) books to be published though :3 I like Takiko's story even more than the original Fushigi Yuugi (which I did not think was possible when I finished reading the original Fushigi Yuugi series).

I lived in Japan for a year and went to high school there. I can get around in daily life and read novels (mostly history, fantasy and daily life genres) and books/articles on linguistics, but when I try to read the newspaper I can only half-understand the articles about economics and entirely read the articles on archeological discoveries. My kanji-knowledge is more geared towards the areas I'm interested in ^^;
My native language is Dutch and I mostly read in Dutch, English and Japanese. Occasionally in French and German (I don't use a dictionary when reading French and German, as I understand most of it anyway, especially German), though I can also read Ancient Greek (don't need a dictionary for most common words), Latin (neeeed dictionary), Italian (dictionary! But I don't really read Italian books, only needed it for my internship), and Russian (just started studying it, so I still need a dictionary even for the Cyrillic XD). I once read a Swedish Donald Duck magazine and it was very understandable, though I don't know any Swedish :P Though the pictures helped a lot of course. I also tried to read a manga in Polish a few years ago (even though I knew/know NOTHING of the Polish language), but the only words I figured out were the word for "vampire" and the verb endings for 1st, 2nd and 3rd person. Probably others, but I forgot already :P I didn't even know how to pronounce everything, but I had already read that manga in Japanese so I knew what was happening.
But for my year lists I only read books in the first five languages, so it sounds a lot more than it actually is :P And at Dutch high schools most people get classes in English, French and German (sometimes Spanish, Ancient Greek and Latin), so that's why I can also read French and German quite easily.

9rebeccanyc
Dic 19, 2012, 7:28 pm

Wow! I'm super impressed by your languages, mene, and a little bit envious too!

10lilisin
Dic 19, 2012, 9:39 pm

So kind of like me. My languages are French, English, Spanish and Japanese. And once you get to that point the romance languages are definitely understandable even if you haven't properly studied them. I did a semester of Korean and still remember how to read it although that semester was six years ago. One of those "once you know it, you know it" type of ordeals. It made going to Korea really fun. I hope to get back to that language when I've established myself more with my Japanese.

11mene
Dic 20, 2012, 7:10 am

Oh, Korean, nice :D I like the Korean script, but I can only read 2 characters ^^; I did sing some Korean songs at karaoke (no, not Gangnam Style), though they were in romanized script and I didn't understand what I was singing :P
Can you also read Korean books or websites?

12lilisin
Dic 20, 2012, 4:17 pm

I could read Korean books and websites technically but I wouldn't now what I'm reading as I know the alphabet but not the vocabulary.

13arubabookwoman
Gen 1, 2013, 9:26 pm

Lilisin--Looking forward to following your reading. Since I'm half-way through the Rougon-Macquart series, I hope to post over in the Author Theme Reads Group too.

14lilisin
Gen 2, 2013, 4:05 pm

arubabookwoman -
Thank you. I also have your thread starred and will look forward to your postings in the ATR group. I don't know if I'll be posting anything anytime soon as I'm currently only halfway through the 1000 page Musashi book and will probably put that down temporarily to read Toilers of the Sea. Or at least, that's the idea.

15helensq
Gen 5, 2013, 1:44 pm

Wow, your respective language skills puts my efforts to read in just one other language to shame! See you on the Author Theme Reads as at least that's the one I can cope with!

16lilisin
Mar 5, 2013, 12:28 am

My thread might have been pushed down to the very bottom of the forgotten threads in Club Read but I will not be forgotten! Here me roar!

But what happened? Well, at the beginning of the year all my books that I was in progress were tomes. So, that was taking a while. Then...

I got a job!
Well, a temporary one. But for the first time in 2 years I had a schedule again. That was super tiring at first. Eesh! Then when I got used to the actual teaching part of the schedule, I had to start grading and that just always takes forever and you get the strongest desire to try and watch a movie or tv while grading but that just distracts me and then it takes even longer to grade.

Now I'm in a bit of a rut. I love the books I'm reading but it's almost as if I don't want to finish them so I just don't pick them up. I'm less that 80 pages away from finishing the 1000 page Musashi. I must finish it 'cause it's truly amazing.

In any case, to try and get out of the rut today I picked up my go-to Amelie Nothomb and poof! In one day I read an entire book of hers. As always she does the job. (And I had a lot of free time at work today).

So book number one of the year 2013!

1) Amelie Nothomb : Peplum
Belgium
3.5 stars/5 stars

Amelie Nothomb has a discussion with a friend about her theory that the city Pompei was destroyed on purpose to freeze the beauty of the city in time for generations to come. The friend dismisses her theory as absurd but lo and behold, waking up after surgery at hospital she finds herself in year 2580. Why? Because the future fears the fact that she has discovered the secret of Pompei. She has been kidnapped by Celsius, a Great of 2580, and the innovator of the Pompei lava burial. What follows is a 150 page discussion on the ins and outs of how and why and what has changed and been done leading up to the year 2580.

I was worried about this one because when my mom read it she said she didn't like it and usually we have pretty much the same taste. However, I read this in one day as I was fairly enraptured by Amelie Nothomb's little book. Her humor and wit were on point and I found myself smiling and laughing more than a few times out loud. She is just so clever with dialogue and her self-deprecating humor was so in touch with her critics. It was interesting to see her attack herself and to see her defense. Although full of some plot holes (after all, we are dealing with time travel basically) and some questionable parts of back and forth conversations (ie. Nothomb suddenly using the same reasoning as Celsius as if she came up with herself) and perhaps a slight loss in luster in 20 or so pages towards the end, I found myself highly engaged in this book. It was definitely a good reading cleanse, like ginger on a sushi plate.

But, you'll either like or hate it. I feel like there is no in between.

Other books I've read by the author:
Hygiène de l'assassin
Le Sabotage amoureux
Les Combustibles
Les Catilinaires
Attentat
Mercure
Stupeur et tremblements
Métaphysique des tubes
Cosmétique de l'ennemi
Robert des noms propres
Antéchrista, roman
Biographie de la faim
Acide sulfurique
Journal d'Hirondelle
Tuer le père

17rebeccanyc
Mar 5, 2013, 8:20 am

Nice to see you, lilisin. Congratulations on getting a job, even if it is cutting into your reading time! Peplum certainly sounds intriguing.

18stretch
Mar 5, 2013, 9:12 am

Nice review of Nothomb, I'm intriqued to try something of hers. And congrats on the job.

19baswood
Mar 6, 2013, 7:11 pm

Peplum sounds a fun read, welcome back lilisin and don't let work spoil your reading life.

20lilisin
Mar 8, 2013, 1:40 pm

Thanks everyone! I'm trying to use Peplum as fuel to light my reading fire. Except, not literally.

stretch - She's fun to read but she's definitely not for everyone and I wouldn't start with Peplum.

21lilisin
Mar 8, 2013, 1:55 pm

2) Takashi Nagai : The Bells of Nagasaki
Japan
5 stars/5 stars

This little book certainly is a hard one to find. I've spent nearly a decade trying to find it in regular bookstores every since I first heard of it but since it's no longer in production and it costs a small fortune online, I had simply to be persistent. When it showed up at Half-Priced Books in January I knew it was finally meant to be and quickly snatched it up. Perhaps I could have found it in a library but as I never walk into those I'm glad I finally found it.

"The Bells of Nagasaki" is one of the top books to read about the atomic bombings in Japan. It is written by Takashi Nagai, a doctor at the University of Medicine in Nagasaki, as he describes the pre-, during, and post- events of the August 9th bombing. Although I've read a few atomic bombing books and have been both to the peace museum in Hiroshima and the peace museum in Nagasaki, this is one of the books one must read. Nagai became one of the big influences in Japan on promoting world peace and due to his direct involvement with the atomic blast, was a huge leader in investigating the medicine associated with radiation sickness.

The book is a quick read as it starts with a great introduction from William Johnston of Sophia University. Then Nagai starts with what different citizens were doing at the time of blast and their location from the epicenter. This is followed by the chapters "The Bomb", "Immediately After" and "Relief". What has always amazed me in previous readings of bomb related books has been how inspiring it was to read about those who didn't just fall straight into despair upon realizing their fate. Seeing how the doctors, after a brief understandable moment of panic, quickly came back to their feet to not only get out of their own difficult situations but to help the many wounded around them was inspiring. Quickly they gathered any utensils that survived, formed groups of surviving nurses and doctors and went on to create relief centers to aid the wounded despite their own ailments.

Nagai goes on to describe the theory behind the creation of the atomic bomb and changes the scenery from the torn apart Nagasaki to the hills beyond the city, Mitsuyama. Here we are greeted with once again green hills, thriving plants, blue skies and a gorgeous summer air. If it weren't for the wounded who had flocked from the city, there would have been no hint of the bombing. This juxtaposition was quite amazing and something I hadn't seen in other books.

The rest of the book deals with Nagai describing the symptoms and medicine involved with the different atomic bombing sicknesses ranging from lowest to greatest severity. At the time, I'm sure this was a treasure-trove of information. Months later as Nagai deals with his own ailments we admirably discover that he does not feel that the bomb was a means of punishment from God. (Nagai was deeply religious). Instead he feels that Nagasaki was God's great sacrifice to promote world peace and to prevent a future destructive atomic age.

Even now Nagai's name is synonymous with the efforts for the promotion of world peace as can be seen throughout the city of Nagasaki. I'm glad to have finally read this book.

22lilisin
Modificato: Mar 8, 2013, 2:27 pm

My trip to Nagasaki two months after the March 11th earthquake. It was incredibly rainy that day so the pictures will be a bit more on the gloomy side.

Nagasaki Station


On the way to the Peace Museum


Clock found in the rubble frozen in time at the exact moment the bomb went off: 11:02am.


Corner devoted to Dr. Takashi Nagai at the museum


Thousand plus paper cranes crying for world peace. The white strip says せんそうをしませんように which means "(Dedicated) to stop (future) wars".


Students with umbrellas walking across the black monument which marks the epicenter.


(The Questionably Gaudy) Monument symbolizing the desire for world peace


Map indicating the destruction of Nagasaki


View of the luscious and green Nagasaki from a temple high above

23baswood
Mar 8, 2013, 6:16 pm

Great pictures lilisin and an inspiring review

24stretch
Mar 8, 2013, 7:23 pm

Great pictures of the Peace Museum. Both peace museums are on my list, now. I'm adding The Bells of Nagasaki to the wishlist to go with Oe's book on Hiroshima. I'm also just a bit jealous that you find Japanese books at the half-priced bookstores, the fine folks of great Indianapolis tastes don't run into the international fare let only anything from Japan.

25RidgewayGirl
Mar 8, 2013, 8:08 pm

Thanks for posting the pictures.

26mkboylan
Modificato: Mar 8, 2013, 9:46 pm

Hello - I'm new to Club Read 2013 and just found your thread. Thanks for posting these great pics. The review of Bells is excellent - think I might take on the challenge of hunting it down.

Merrikay

ETA: Oh yay! My library has it!

27rebeccanyc
Mar 9, 2013, 10:53 am

Great photos and thought-provoking review. Thanks.

28StevenTX
Mar 9, 2013, 11:27 am

A wonderful review and photos. The picture of the schoolgirls with their umbrellas is a classic and very moving.

The line many Americans take about the use of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that it saved the hundreds of thousands of lives that would have been lost on both sides had the war continued--i.e. that Nagasaki was a sacrifice, but in a different sense than Nagai meant. How do he and other Japanese respond to this rationale?

29kidzdoc
Mar 9, 2013, 12:23 pm

Great review of The Bells of Nagasaki, lilisin, and your photos are lovely! Thanks for sharing them with us.

30lilisin
Modificato: Mar 9, 2013, 8:55 pm

Thanks everyone for the compliments. I've seen others start to add pictures to certain books and I thought these could be a good compliment. I remember the first time I went to Hiroshima and my first thought being was how green and "lived" it was.

I'm glad I was able to inspire the few of you into adding the book to the wishlist as well. It's short but interesting and I find that combining it with John Hersey's Hiroshima and Masuji Ibuse's Black Rain makes for a great trio for perspective and reactions towards the bomb. Just by itself, due to its age, it might not be strong enough a book and it might just have historical importance but it will inspire to look up more.

stretch -
Thankfully we have a university right next door that houses 50,000+ students! I love the end of the semester when Half Priced Books selection gets really good after all the buybacks.

The Hiroshima museum is significantly superior and takes a few hours to get through. Very hard to leave without shedding a few tears after seeing all the horrifying images of the charred school lunch boxes of young children, sometimes still in their hands. The Nagasaki museum, considering the significance of the atomic bomb, is remarkably small in comparison.

steven -
I have certainly heard the point of view from the Americans and definitely understand where it comes from. I know there has been a lot of research as well as to whether or not the bomb was truly necessary and some have found potential alternatives that could have ended the war. I wonder if it could only have taken the atomic bomb to change the opinion of a stubborn emperor.

In the book Nagai does not address the American position behind the bombing and focuses solely on the Japanese. And even with that his only real talk about his stance is in the chapter when he convinces two visitors to his hut that the Japanese lost the war because they had become weak and because God had chosen Nagasaki as his sacrifice. I think at that point, post-bombing, the Japanese were still reeling from the unconditional surrender made by the emperor. Later on, I know, there was question if the atomic bomb followed the rules of war. I hope that answers your question.

31avidmom
Mar 9, 2013, 9:24 pm

Sounds like an amazing book. Incredible that Dr. Nagai felt Nagasaki was a sacrifice for world peace. I'd love to read this too. (Yay! My library does have it!) Thank you for posting those gorgeous pictures.

32avaland
Mar 9, 2013, 10:03 pm

Found the review of the Nothomb interesting. Have been thinking about reading a bit more of her after hearing her speak at the PEN Festival in 2011.

33Rise
Mar 10, 2013, 6:59 am

The book looks like a good companion to Black Rain. I assume it's one of the works Ibuse consulted for his novel, or at least Nagai was one he based his doctor character?

34lilisin
Mar 10, 2013, 1:04 pm

Rise -
If you look at my commentary in post 30 I thought the same thing. Combine it with John Hersey's Hiroshima and I feel the books make for a good trio. I'm not sure, however, if the doctor is based on Nagai but I guess there is that possibility.

35dchaikin
Mar 11, 2013, 9:38 am

Great review of an important book. I haven't read any of the trio of books you mention in #30. I will put them on my list and hope to get there.

At the time, I'm sure this was a treasure-trove of information. - I'm curious, when was this written and published?

36lilisin
Mar 11, 2013, 5:32 pm

dchaikin -
The bomb was 1945, the book spans a year post the bombing so was finished probably around late 1946, early 1947 and then the book was published 1949.

37dchaikin
Mar 12, 2013, 1:20 pm

Thanks!

38mkboylan
Mar 27, 2013, 11:34 am

Just finished it Lilisin - so glad I did. Thanks for you very excellent review! I with everyone would read it!

39lilisin
Mar 29, 2013, 1:19 pm

You're very welcome! I'm happy that you had such a strong reaction to the book.

40lilisin
Modificato: Apr 17, 2013, 8:33 pm

This bad boy just showed up.



What is this bad boy? Well, as it perches on my already "Am technically currently reading but have been ignoring" pile, the color splashed book is Haruki Murakami's newest book. Just went on sale in Japan. The title? Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage. Touchstones? Of course not. Too fresh. Too new.

I will be the first. I'm determined. I will report!

Page 1.

41mkboylan
Modificato: Apr 17, 2013, 8:43 pm

Thanks for the grin! Hope the book lives up to your expectations

Love your shelf name! (am techically currently........)

42lilisin
Modificato: Mag 2, 2013, 8:16 pm

Progress report.

Things are going quite smoothly actually with the Murakami book. I'm a little past 100 pages in (out of 370) which is significant progress on my part. Murakami is definitely succeeded in making me want to read more. The great thing about the book is that I have no idea what it's about. There is no summary on the back of the book and I have read nothing about the book before it came out. So there are no spoilers, only cliffhangers.

I can't tell yet if the book will have the same kind of fantasy element that 1Q84 had -- what with Little People coming out of goats and whatnot -- but there is definitely a lot of conversation about logic vs the illogical, belief vs nonbelief, and auras and the ability to read into such things.

The book goes back and forth between the past and the present of the main character Tazaki Tsukuru. Interestingly enough, up until the last chapter I just read only 1 day had gone by in the present. Now, 6 days have gone by. To make a book be interesting when only a few days of mere conversation has gone by is quite the feat.

Looking forward to reading more.
I was thinking about putting more details and whatnot and do frequent posts about the book but considering this book won't come out for another 2 years maybe in English, I wouldn't want to spoil the fun for the Murakami fans out there who can't read Japanese.

One note though, I don't know how I feel about Murakami mentioning Facebook in this book. I like Facebook and I use it a lot, and I'm not one of those idiots who doesn't know the difference between private and public posts, but still. I don't know if I want to read about it in a book.

What are your thoughts about books containing references to Google, Facebook and Twitter? Is it just a bit of snobbism on my part?

43.Monkey.
Mag 3, 2013, 4:22 am

It depends. They're a large part of everyday life for many people, so if it's about things he's sitting around doing, it makes sense to mention, I'm not sure why it'd be a big deal. If it's out of nowhere and doesn't relate to the rest of what's going on, then it'd be weird & out of place and that'd be not good.

44stretch
Mag 3, 2013, 9:21 am

I wouldn't have a problem with it if it's set in today's atmosphere since those services are so ubiquitous. However, it can date the book pretty quickly since the internet is such a fluid environment. The use of myspace or live journal in books I’ve read makes them seem old fashioned already. The same can be said thought for just about any technology used in a book. Without it’s not very accurate to reality, but eventually it will all be outdated.

45lilisin
Modificato: Mag 3, 2013, 12:36 pm

43 -
The context was fine. A character was just telling another how they could use those tools to find some people.

44 -
That's what I'm more worried about actually. Will the book feel dated in a decade or two? And is being dated a bad thing? When you think about it, books written in the 60s and about the 60s clearly reference the 60s and they don't feel dated. So I think there's a difference between being dated where it places you at a certain date, and being dated where you can't bring the book to modern day. Considering it's Murakami, I'm not too worried about that.

But I feel like sometimes, mentioning certain products isn't necessary. The character could have used the general words "search engine" or "the internet" to go about their point.

I should expect it though. Murakami is all about showing how he is "in the know" when he writes. Dropping names here and there and whatnot.

ETA:
I think my issue is also just personal. Up until fairly recently, I actually used to read most classics. So, I'm not always used to reading about stuff I use and see today. It always stands out for me.

Like when I read a Russian author and she mentioned "The Matrix" movie. Now that one definitely seemed out of place!

46RidgewayGirl
Mag 3, 2013, 1:51 pm

What stretch said. It also depends on the intent of the author -- if he's trying to create a vivid picture of a time and a place, it is appropriate, but if he's trying to write something timeless, then no. Stephen King purposefully loads his books with items that reference a time and place and that works, even for later readers, although it will be interesting to see if such specific use of brand names and short-lived products will still work for his novels when the readers will no longer have any personal memory of them. Will all his books be forgotten because of it, or simply require annotation?

47Polaris-
Mag 4, 2013, 9:53 am

Hi lilisin! Just catching up with your club read now as well... I can definitely relate to your stop-start reading year so far! Anyway, thanks for an excellent review of The Bells of Nagasaki, which I've added to the wishlist.

48rebeccanyc
Mag 4, 2013, 12:55 pm

I agree that it depends . . . on how much the author does it, on how integral it is to the plot and the characters, etc. But I think it will date a book, as do most references to products of various kinds.

Interestingly, I heard an interview on public radio this morning with Baz Luhrmann about his new movie of The Great Gatsby in which he makes the argument that because Fitzgerald was very interested in what was new and current in his day it was OK for him (Luhrmann) to include today's "street" music, hip-hop, along with the 20s "street" music, jazz, and do other modern contemporary things because that captures the spirit of Gatsby instead of making it a period piece.

49AnnieMod
Mag 5, 2013, 7:40 am

>46 RidgewayGirl:

They work for someone that is not from the States and had not heard of a lot of them outside of the novels (back when I was first reading the books anyway) :)

>42 lilisin:

If they are talking about computers and searching and the book is set in the second decade of this century, a character not mentioning google or facebook will sound weird to me...

>45 lilisin:

The Matrix is a cultural movement :) I am actually surprised how little of the current culture get into a lot of the contemporary fiction (but then I do not read a lot of it... but there is a lot of references in the crime and mystery world...)

50lilisin
Mag 16, 2013, 4:14 pm

3) Colette : Chéri
France
3.5/5 stars

Nothing like a flight to another city to help you start and finish a book in one sitting. This is the first Colette I've read despite my mother and grandmother constantly telling me that a French person has to read Colette and that they've read all the works. Granted those two have collectively read the works of seemingly every author that has every written a book but that's besides the point.

As is typical of a classic French book published way in the day, the pages were tinted brown and smelled of that old book scent where you expect to see a cloud of dust fall from the pages. More importantly, there was no summary on the back cover to tell me what I was about to read. Only the simple line "this is more than the story of a gigolo". Interesting, yes, okay, I'm going to read about a gigolo.

The story starts with the introduction of our major characters, Lea and Cheli. Lea is a middle-aged retired courtesan who has taken under her wing the child of her former competitor. However, the son, Cheli, has grown up to be a privileged bratty man who feels entitles to luxuries beyond his own abilities. And in the 7 years that Lea has been looking over the now 25-year old Cheli, they have developed a sexual relationship which seems to be under the control of Lea until Cheli leaves to get married. Upon his absence Lea discovers an emptiness she did not expect.

Refusing to feed into her feelings she decides to leave upon which Cheli notes the toll her absence takes on him.

It's an interesting tale despite the very unlikeable characters. It could be easily confused as a love story but it's not. The two characters have basically created a sense of love but it's really just a sense of false longing due to absence of routine. Lea unknowningly created herself a companion which, upon their absence, will obviously create a whole. While Cheli has always been the youth, the young handsome man, the spirited and lively unbridled and unrestricted man. He was doted upon by an older woman and to be thrown into a marriage where he is now the older man and is supposed to take the role of caregiver through him violently into reality. So the ending is quite good considering this and makes sense. And actually, it is almost refreshing to see a non-traditional ending as might be expected now.

All in all it was an interesting read. I think being stuck on a plane helped me get through it considering the unlikeable characters but at least now I can say that I've read Colette.

----

Since I finished this book early into my plane ride I started the other book I brought with me: Mishima's Sun and Steel. Not an easy read! Very complicated and I'm not sure I'm getting anything out of it. I was hoping it would give me some insight into Mishima and his writing style because I can't seem to really connect with his work. But now I feel even more disconnected after 30 pages. I'll see how the rest of the book (70 more pages) makes me feel.

51lilisin
Mag 16, 2013, 4:16 pm

Reread the first post of my thread:

Would also like to read a minimum of 15 books and strive for 20. Seems strange that a supposedly avid reader such as myself should only be reading 13 books a year. I'm not that busy after all.

Totally jinxed myself!

52AnnieMod
Mag 16, 2013, 4:38 pm

Avid reader and number of books do not need to correlate - it depends on the type of books and how fast someone reads :)

53lilisin
Modificato: Mag 16, 2013, 4:42 pm

Well three though is still low. Especially since they haven't even hit 200 pages and have been easy reads. I have a lot that are close to "finish" status if I would just finish them. I just mean avid reader in the sense that I love books and I love reading but these days it seems like I love having books more so than I actually take the time to read them!

54AnnieMod
Modificato: Mag 16, 2013, 8:08 pm

Reading is not a competition in who will read the most books, it is a journey to finding new worlds. Detours are acceptable - and if you feel like stopping and looking at the scenery, that's ok :) If you need a day to ponder on a particularly challenging paragraph or to imagine something and let your imagination fly for a bit (I've done that with some books - I'd stop deliberately for a while and just imagine what happens next - it usually does not match and it makes it a bit hard to reconcile what I read with what I imagined but... the people come alive)

Plus - you read in Japanese as well. When I started reading in English for the first time, it took me 3 months to finish 2 shortish books. It just takes time for the mind to rewire to a different language. Fast forward almost 2 decades - I read with the same speed in English and Bulgarian...

And before I get on yet another tangent - I am just saying that numbers don't really matter... we are read differently.

55StevenTX
Mag 16, 2013, 4:59 pm

Cheri and The Last of Cheri are all the Colette I've read as well, but I did enjoy them and would like to read more. I think I enjoyed the sequel better, and reading The Last of Cheri helped me appreciate what I had read in Cheri.

56lilisin
Mag 16, 2013, 5:03 pm

I'm not in competition with others. But I have an ideal of at least reading at the speed of one book a month just so that I can get through all the books I want to read. Now, the book might be a 1000 page tome or a 90 page book. Like you said, it's the content that matters. But having an ideal reminds me that maybe I haven't picked up a book in a while and it can put me back in that mindset.

Reading Japanese is a separate project but switching French, English and Spanish is not a problem (although I haven't really been reading in Spanish lately).

But thanks for the encouragement that it's okay if I'm not "putting out the numbers". :)

57AnnieMod
Mag 16, 2013, 5:11 pm

>56 lilisin:
Yeah - once you get the language down, switching is not an issue. But every time you get to Japanese, I suspect you are a bit slower for a few pages on your basic languages when you are back :)

If you need any encouragement, we can cheer you ;)

58lilisin
Mag 16, 2013, 5:13 pm

Yes I'm definitely slow on uptake on all books as I'm constantly changing languages, authors, styles, time periods and topics. Meeting new characters is like going to a party and having to remember their names and positions. Takes a while but once you get the names down, you got it. :)

59baswood
Mag 16, 2013, 6:00 pm

Stay with Colette Lilisin, nice review of Cheri.

60rebeccanyc
Mag 16, 2013, 6:18 pm

Agree about not worrying about numbers -- you're supposed to enjoy reading, not worry about it! And interesting review of Colette -- I've never read her.

61AnnieMod
Modificato: Mag 16, 2013, 6:51 pm

Talking about Colette - what would someone recommend as a first book to be read?

62lilisin
Modificato: Mag 21, 2013, 1:30 pm

4) Yukio Mishima : Sun and Steel
Japan
2/5 stars

I give up. I don't get it.
I was hoping this book would give me some insight on Mishima but it's just confusing me more.

Other books I've read by the author:
Le Marin rejeté par la mer
La Mort en été

63rebeccanyc
Mag 17, 2013, 3:26 pm

When I read Mishima's The Temple of the Golden Pavilion last year, thanks to your Author theme reads group, I found it disturbing, and yet I couldn't really get a handle on it. It hasn't made me interested in trying more Mishima, and especially now that I see you, with all your background in Japanese literature, don't get it either!

64tros
Modificato: Mag 17, 2013, 10:55 pm

Hi Lil,

Not sure if you've read Lafcadio Hearn; Kwaidan, etc. are highly recommended.
Haven't read Colette but her protege, Francis Carco,
wrote some wild, non-traditional novels, also recommended.

65lilisin
Mag 21, 2013, 1:35 pm

Rebecca -
Yeah, Mishima is just one of those novelists that I have to accept I'll never get a grasp on. This book was supposed to be a semi-autobiographical text that gives clarification on his writing process and why death was such an intrinsic part of his life. But all it did was confuse me more. It was written in "essay language" making it more complex that it needed to be.

Sentences such as this:
"To embrace suffering is the constant role of physical courage; and physical courage is, as it were, the source of that taste for understanding and appreciating death that, more than anything else, is a prime condition for making true awareness of death possible."

At the end, I just couldn't be bothered anymore.

tros -
As always you introduce me to works unknown to me! I'll look into these, thank you!

----

On a side note, I'm about 40 pages from the end of Kobo Abe's Secret Rendezvous. Interested to see how it ends and all ties together.

66rebeccanyc
Mag 21, 2013, 5:13 pm

Well, I'll be interested in what you think of Secret Rendezvous. Despite my very mixed feelings about the Abes I read last year, I might be up for another!

67stretch
Mag 21, 2013, 7:49 pm

I've got a Mishima on the TBR pile, with all the mixed reviews of his style it sounds like it can wait. He seems like an interesting contradiction and begs some understanding, to bad that book is too dense to clear up his persona.

68lilisin
Modificato: Mag 22, 2013, 2:38 am

I have finished Secret Rendezvous just now which was simultaneously mesmerizing and confounding, fairly typical of Abe. Having turned the last page, I started thinking about what it was I had just read and what it all meant and I found that to understand this book, I had to compare it to other Abe works. (Although I omit Woman in the Dunes as it was a very different style being his first book and I do not remember enough of it for a comparison study.) Thus, my review might turn more into an essay as I compare it briefly to Face of Another and The Box Man. Although I don't believe Abe really has "spoilers" as he does not write in a traditional way, I do warn that this review(/essay) will refer to specific plot points and will offer my idea of what the book is about, which might skew your own thoughts if you choose to read the book yourself. If you do decide to continue reading, I hope you find what will probably become a rambling, interesting.

5) Kobo Abe : Secret Rendezvous
Japan
4.5/5 stars (tentative)

The back of the book and most other internet users will summarize the book as such: An ambulance arrives uncalled in the middle of the night to take away a man's wife despite her claims that she is perfectly fine. The unnamed protagonist is left to find her, but when he arrives at the hospital things are atypical of a hospital visit. In his attempt to find his wife, the man becomes employed by a horse as chief of security and tunnels his way through the labyrinth of a hospital to find her. As he searches, he becomes entwined with slues of strange characters, voyeur to sexual experiments and falls to a sort of mental manipulation. The quote on the back of the book states that this is Abe's "nightmarish vision of modern medicine and modern life". Others on the internet appreciate the feel of the novel but some are not quite sure what they have just read.

This is where I look at his other works to understand, or at least, to attempt.

Abe, as I have come to understand him, likes to write about identity and the preservation of, or, destruction of identity within and outside the parameters of society. With Face of Another he explored the idea of the face and the face's physical influence on identity. When the character's face was destroyed, he was left to either rebuild his same face and recreate his once persona, or build a new face and attempt to create a new persona. But it was up to society to decide which persona was allowed to come out. In The Box Man, Abe once again explored the idea of identity when the character wished to escape the eyes of society and limit his world to that of a box. Initially he was doing fine until society knocked on his box trying to shake him out of what was considered un-society-like, thus creating a character trying to kill him. Secret Rendezvous is really just a retelling of these similar themes.

Presentation of the book as a series of notebooks.
The wife.
A character set to kill the main character or to shake him and bring him back into the eyes of "regular" society.
An enclosure where the character is constantly running, escaping.

All in all it comes to the same. The character, once a working member of society, has fallen prey to some sort of accident. In this case, an incident based on self repression of sexual thought due to wanting to fit into societal norms despite a strong sexual appetite. As often happens when people fall ill to what is considered atypical and not part of the norm, he becomes an outcast and starts to fall more into delinquency until in the end, he loses his own identity. And the book is his quest to find it and to return to normal (represented by his wife, who has most likely left him in real life). However, in his quest to find himself he just progressively loses himself even more until the hospital remains this perpetual labyrinth where toilets turn into secret passageways and festivals are actually secret plots and elevators don't seem to go to the second floor. Abe gives many hints to the reader about where reality is to be found. He often quotes "Doctors make the best patients and patients the best doctors", and just like the horse tells the man (as the protagonist is called) that the secret of his dilemma lies in the first part of the tapes he has to listen to, the secret of the book likes in the first page: the realistic introduction of the characters and his hobbies as might be written in the page of a doctor's notebook. More importantly, the notebook of a doctor based in psychiatry. And the notebooks of the character are really an attempt by the doctor to find the source of his patient's problems by having the patient investigate himself.

With this I just find it truly amazing what Abe can present. At the same time, presenting the downfall of a character while showing the limitations of a society when presented with the extremes of society's pleasures, in this case, sexual desire. In the wanting of society to dumb down and bring modesty to sexual desire and lust, and the wanting of science to understand where it comes from, both lose their ability to see it as its most basic form. And when something becomes taboo, extremes are formed which causes even more confusion and desire.

So Abe's ability to show how identity shapes society and vice versa is just remarkable and it's what makes me such a fan. I can't wait till the next one.

-------

This is my interpretation of this book and the other two books by Abe. It is hard for me to write this out simply because I can't seem to find any other user who has come to the same interpretation as I really do think this is what it is.

I would love to discuss this with others who have read the book.

-------

Other books I've read by the author:
The Woman in the Dunes
The Face of Another
The Box Man

On my TBR shelf:
Kangaroo Notebook
The Ark Sakura

69rebeccanyc
Modificato: Mag 22, 2013, 4:09 pm

Fascinating review, Lilisin. I find Abe intriguing, confusing, and even repellent in some ways, but you make me think I should try this one.

70baswood
Mag 22, 2013, 7:21 pm

Excellent thoughts on Secret Rendezvous. I hope they prove useful to other readers.

71Linda92007
Mag 26, 2013, 12:46 pm

Your thoughts on Secret Rendezvous are fascinating, Lilisin. I recently read The Woman in the Dunes and would like to read more by Abe, but I'm a bit intimidated by your comment that it is written in a very different style than his other books. I'm not sure which to try next.

72kidzdoc
Mag 28, 2013, 12:00 pm

Brilliant comments about Secret Rendezvous, lilisin! I struggled to make sense of The Box Man and Kangaroo Notebook, but I think you've given me a new framework to examine what Abe is trying to do. I'll plan to read Secret Rendezvous over the summer, and re-read those two books.

73lilisin
Modificato: Giu 6, 2013, 2:32 pm

Thank you all for the responses and I apologize for only replying now. I find I've become quite lackadaisical when it comes to replying to things these days. I think it's because I tend to not like what comes from the other side!

In any case, let's see...

rebecca and baswood
Thank you! My thoughts seem to go in another direction from other users so I wonder if others will see it too now that I've planted the seed in their brain.

Linda -
In terms of style and fluidity of his writing, they are still similar. But the setup is very different. I wouldn't make this one your next Abe. Instead I would go with safe and easier, The Face of Another, or go out and hit his hard one but incredibly fascinating The Box Man.

kidzdoc -
I look forward to your rereading then to see if you see what I saw. I feel like I could have written a 10 page essay on my thoughts and observations had I the writing skill and patience. (Or if I had school to push me with a grade. Too bad these books weren't assigned.) I feel like The Secret Rendezvous had great ideas but was the least well executed. It felt a lot more jilted and rushed, almost unnecessarily complex. While The Box Man was the perfect execution. My next Abe will either be Kangaroo Notebook or Ark Sakura. Both are on my shelf.

----

On another note, I'm getting close to the end of the Murakami (the newest one just published in Japan). It has become very interesting and I'm nearing the climax of the book and the resulting denouement. I can't wait to report on it. I would say maybe another week, two maximum, until I finish it.

74rebeccanyc
Giu 6, 2013, 9:14 am

My copy of Secret Rendezvous has arrived, but I'm not sure when I'll work myself up to read it!

75lilisin
Modificato: Giu 12, 2013, 6:40 pm

6) Banana Yoshimoto : アルゼンチンババア (Argentine Hag)
Japan
3 stars/5 stars

I'm not the biggest fan of Yoshimoto but I wanted to practice reading her writing style as it's much more complicated than it first looks. Short little novella, will watch the movie later this week. As far as I know, this work has not been translated into English.

It's about a girl and her father and the aftermath of their lives after her mother dies. The father has lost a piece of himself not only after the death of his wife but also with the dwindling in demand of his profession, a grave marker sculptor. One day, the girl calls home to find that her father is not answering. She discovers that he has been finding himself in the home of the Argentinian Lady, a strange woman who lives in the Argentina house far from the town. The story follows the relationship of these three people as the father tries to find himself in the arms of this new, strange woman.

A short, 80 page story, that was quite solemn. Not too bad but Yoshimoto is certainly not the easiest to read. I look forward to seeing the movie based off the book.

----

Other books I've read by the author:
The Lake
Kitchen

On my TBR shelf:
NP
ハチ公の最後の恋人
みずうみ
キッチン

----

Otherwise, I have finished the Murakami book and will post a review soon.

76lilisin
Modificato: Lug 1, 2013, 6:07 pm

7) Haruki Murakami : 色彩を持たない多崎つくると、彼の巡礼の年 (Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage)
Japan
4/5 stars

This is Haruki Murakami's latest and newest book, out in Japan maybe three months ago. And I liked it! It was page turning and suspenseful and it had me questioning where it was going to the entire time. Murakami introduced very few fantastical elements compared to his 1Q84 and although I thought it could go into that direction, he kept the book rooted in reality.

Basically, his character, Tsukuru Tazaki, has been lost for a long time. Although he now lives a fairly standard life as a train station engineer and has overcome his dark thoughts of death, there is still a nagging within his heart that demands exploration upon the recommendation of his girlfriend. This nagging is about his group of high school friends who despite their incredible closeness, one day choose to expel Tsukuru from the group never to talk to him again. Tsukuru ends up spending the book exploring the circumstances that have happened into his life, hence his years of pilgrimage.

It's a very interesting book with some interesting moments and suspenseful wonderings and yet at the same time, you realize that nothing really happens in the book. The book leaps between the present and the past and in reality, the present goes by at a slow pace. But Murakami ends up tying the two miraculously well and despite a very pathetic main character, you do end up feeling some sympathy even if it's not for him.

All in all, the consensus out there seems to be that most people enjoy the book. It ends on a bit of a "huh? that's it?" kind of factor but that's to be expected of Murakami. So, recommended.

(I haven't heard of the English rights being bought yet but I'm sure it'll happen. I would say 2 years before a translation is out.)

Other books I've read by the author:
Apres le tremblement de terre (After the Quake)
Underground
1Q84

77stretch
Lug 1, 2013, 9:33 pm

I have yet to even attempt a Murakami, which seems like a giant gaping hole considering pretty much everything he writes is translated into English. I have wind-up bird and after the quake sounds like i might be interesting. I can't really shake the feeling that he's popular here because he writes more like a western author and perhaps lacks that quality I can't quite put my finger on that makes other Japanese authors so readable. Probably a wild generalization of course, but I keep putting his stuff back because it doesn't fit my preconception. That being said Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage sounds more like what I would expect, I'll after to keep an eye out for when it becomes translated.

78lilisin
Modificato: Lug 1, 2013, 11:13 pm

With all the great Japanese literature that is out there, I have always found no need or desire to read Murakami H. I agree that his western writing style and his lack of Japanese themes probably helps with his widespread appeal. I didn't enjoy After the Quake myself but perhaps you will.

His works apparently have went down as many people think he has passed his heyday -- WindupBird, Norwegian Wood -- but I don't know how to judge that as I seem to be going backwards with his works. But I have heard that this new one is a step back towards the Murakami people know. I do think this one is worth being read though, for what it's worth.

Mostly though, I'm currently reading him because I discovered he's quite easy to read in Japanese which is great for reading practice and picking up new vocabulary. Considering how much he repeats himself and uses the same vocabulary over and over and over again, his books make for great practice.

I will be curious to see how non-Japan reacts to this new book so I hope it gets translated soon so others can read it.

79lilisin
Modificato: Ago 16, 2013, 10:22 am

8) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 1
France
5/5 stars

Read the first volume of this three volume book and loved it. Loved the slower pace of it compared to Musketeers and loved the simplicity behind the plot. Just political intrigue and I got to know d'Artagnan's character better. Dumas is always a page turner: 900 pages in 7 days? Easy.

---

I'm halfway through volume 2 and hope to finish it once my jet lag is gone. Maybe I'll do a better recap once I'm done with all three volumes or when my brain no longer feels like it's still over the Atlantic somewhere.

---

Other books I've read by the author:
Le Comte de Monte-Cristo
Les Trois Mousquetaires
La Reine Margot

On my TBR shelf:
La Comtesse de Charny
Les Mille et Un Fantômes précédé de La Femme au collier de velours
Vingt ans après

80NanaCC
Ago 16, 2013, 6:50 am

I've only read The Count of Monte Cristo, which I loved. I really should try more by Dumas.

81rebeccanyc
Ago 16, 2013, 7:50 am

I've never read any Dumas, but I recently bought The Women's War based on SassyLassy's recommendation on her thread.

82Linda92007
Ago 16, 2013, 8:54 am

I have also not yet read any Dumas, but would like to, although reading the full D'Artagnan series is quite a commitment. 900 pages in 7 days is way beyond my capacity, but has me intrigued!

83lilisin
Ago 16, 2013, 10:07 am

80 -
The Count is brilliant! Oh the adventure I had reading that one. You really should read more Dumas. I try read at least one of his a year. I highly recommend The Queen Margot as your next Dumas.

81 -
I'm not familiar with that one but reading the description sounds intriguing. I'll pick that one up next time I'm in France.

I have three other books of his on my TBR for now: Vingt ans apres (20 Years Later), La comtesse de Charny and Les mille et un fantomes (1001 Ghosts) of which the last I'm not familiar with at all.

82 -
Well, it helped that I was on vacation at the family home so all my time went to reading in the backyard tanning and watching the boats go by on the lake. So having that much time to read helps. Then the airplane ride let me read 300+ pages when I wasn't sleeping so that was fantastic as well. But Dumas is such a page turner that 100 pages at once feels quite natural to do. I actually skipped the second book in the series, Twenty Years After, before reading this, the third book. I own the second, but since I bought the third while in France, the temptation was too much and it just felt like the right moment to read it. And although Dumas refers to a lot of what happened in the second book, I don't feel spoiled or lost reading the third one first. Definitely will come back to the second though!

84NanaCC
Modificato: Ago 16, 2013, 12:08 pm

Is there a specific recommendation for The Queen Margot as far as translation? Sadly I took three years of French in high school, and then never used it. I use a translator for the odd sentence or phrase that I find in many books, but I'm afraid that would not do for an entire book.

I see that my daughter has this one in her library. Another one to borrow. She has the perfect lending library. I am under no pressure to finish quickly. :)

85lilisin
Ago 16, 2013, 12:39 pm

Unfortunately I can't help with translations as I don't read them and Dumas, unless you are close to a native speaker, is not an author I'd recommend to read in French.

My mother has the perfect lending library (a great phrase) as well! All the classics of France in French that I hardly ever have to buy books. I do believe she's read just about everything.

86lilisin
Ago 22, 2013, 9:25 pm

I was flipping through my TBR shelves just for the fun of it (anyone else do that?) and upon opening Kobo Abe's Kangaroo Notebook, I read this:

The typical protagonist of Abe's stories is an 'outsider' who is haunted by a sense of alienation and by anxiety over the fragility of individual identity. He seeks freedom from the oppressiveness of communal reality, yet yearns futilely for emotional connection.

Oh good! Someone else who understands Abe like I understand him! I was afraid I was the only one.

And no, I don't plan on reading this book quite yet, but boy I'm sure it's going to be fun. I mean, how more messed up than Secret Rendezvous can it be? ;)

87rebeccanyc
Ago 23, 2013, 9:56 am

Lilisin, I look at my TBR shelves and my LT equivalent, my "Hope to Read Soon" collection, frequently. Right now I have 548 books in that collection, and it doesn't include books that have sat on my shelves unread for decades that I didn't go through and add to that collection when LT introduced collections. But I do flip through the actual books too, when I'm trying to decide what to read next. And re Abe, I find him extremely perplexing and disturbing but I did go out and get Secret Rendezvous recently, probably after you read it!

88kidzdoc
Ago 23, 2013, 10:13 am

I've read Kangaroo Notebook but not Secret Rendezvous yet. That book was definitely a head trip, one I'm not sure I've completely recovered from, and I'll be very interested to get your take on which of the two is more messed up!

89lilisin
Ago 26, 2013, 4:24 pm

9) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 2
France
5/5 stars

And I have now finished volume 2 after taking a week break to recover from jet lag and the resulting brain haze that comes from jet lag.

Online reviews since to think this is the most boring of the three volumes as they call it the Louise la Valliere book. Yes, the book talks about her a lot and of her romance with Louis XIV but what I loved about this volume was all the going around that was happening. Love is supposed to be a moment shared by two people but the book shows how this love affects each and every character around them. Jealousy arises, deception begins and schemes are developed to tear these two characters apart. This is what makes Dumas so genius I feel; his ability to manipulate so many characters at once and have them weave in and out of each other's lives is just amazing.

And as we get little glimpses into these little subplots and schemes that characters are developing around the two main characters of this volume, we start to build a lot of anticipation for the third and final volume. I'm very excited.

90NanaCC
Ago 26, 2013, 5:33 pm

Nice review of Dumas. I really need to read the book you had recommended, The Queen Margot, sooner rather than later.

91AnnieMod
Modificato: Ago 26, 2013, 6:04 pm

>89 lilisin:

I never understood why people think that the Louise la Valliere book is the worst in the trilogy (or the whole series). Yes - it is not as adventure filled as the rest so it may be a bit boring if you are 14 but it is the one that actually shows the French life and manners and so on the best...

PS: Great review.

92lilisin
Modificato: Ago 26, 2013, 6:23 pm

91 -

Exactly. I actually am liking this book better than TThreeMusk because of its slower pace. It almost feels like you're part of the book in real time, experiencing every bit that it takes to live in the royal court. Truly a remarkable experience. TThreeMusk was almost too fast paced for me with all the adventure that I never really got to know the characters. Now I definitely know the personality of each d'Artagnan, Porthos, Athos and Aramis.

And if you consider volume 1, there is a bit of adventure but not that much of it either. In fact, d'Artagnan completes his mission before you're even halfway through the book!

But because of all the movies that have come out throughout the ages, people expect ONLY adventure and ONLY swords and courageous feats, not realizing that Dumas is primarily all about intrigue and the seemingly minor plots and schemes that can change a reign.

---

I feel like this is a good time to translate a bit of the introduction (written by Simone Bertiere) in the first volume , which I was going to save until I finished the book.

First in French (minus the accents):
La trilogie des Mousquetaires reste son plus grand titre de gloire. Le premier volet a fait le tour du monde et il inspire encore d'innombrables epigones, parce qu'il offre, sous une forme epuree, l'archetype du roman de cape et d'epee tout en brassant des themes apparentes aux grands mythes. Vingt ans apres, plus complexe et plus leste d'histoire, seduit un public moins large, mais plus cultive. Bragelonne, trop long, trop composite, trop ambigu -- trop charge de melancolie --, n'aura jamais, quoi q'on en dise, la notoriete des deux autres. En revance, il les prolonges et les complete. Il ouvre sur la societe -- celle du XIXe siecle autant que celle du XVIIe -- des vues plus nuancees et plus profondes, qui l'apparentent aux grands romans de son temps. Mais surtout, c'est le plus personnel des trois, celui ou Dumas a mis le plus de lui-meme -- et, par la, le plus emouvant.

My general translation:
The d'Artagnan series continues to be his Dumas greatest glory. The first volume traveled the world and inspires still countless imitations, because it offers in its purest form, the swashbuckling archetype, embracing the great myths with sword and cape. "Twenty Years Late", more complex and filled with history, seduces a smaller public, but a more cultivated one. "Bragelonne", too long, too mixed, too ambiguous -- and with too much melancholy -- will never have, despite our intentions, the notoriety of the other two. Consequentially though, it prolongs them and completes them. It puts upon society -- the 19th as much as the 17th century -- more nuanced and more profound views, that links it to the great novels of its time. But mostly, it's the most personal of the three, the one in which Dumas finds himself the most -- and because of that, the most stirring.

93AnnieMod
Ago 26, 2013, 6:48 pm

>92 lilisin:

Well - Dumas had been called a YA author (or whatever the term was through the years) for ages - I grew up with his books and they were not considered something that anyone over 16 would read. So books that do not have as much excitement were just weird for that age group.

94lilisin
Ago 26, 2013, 10:45 pm

When I buy his books in France, the clerks do also seem to look at me strangely almost as if they are wondering who would voluntarily read Dumas nowadays. He is such a "back to school" type author now so I can definitely see the YA reference.

I only read maybe two YA books when I was younger, mostly skipping the genre. The one book I remember reading was more gang-related (I believe?) and I remember it was surprisingly good for the level it was targeting but I didn't really have that much desire to continue reading the genre. My mom then gave me the unabridged version of Les Miserables when I was in 6th grade (in the US, so I was 10 years old) and I never looked back to made-for-my-age books.

I certainly would have enjoyed Dumas back then as well, though because my reading level was higher than most, I would have been just as intrigued by the political scheming as most children would be intrigued by the adventure.

My mom, seeing me read so much Dumas, is considering re-reading or reading some for the first time. It's just such a relaxing and good, fun time to be had.

95baswood
Ago 27, 2013, 5:22 am

Enjoying your enthusiastic re-discovery of Dumas. I will get to him one day.

96rebeccanyc
Ago 27, 2013, 7:25 am

I did buy The Women's War after SassyLassy reviewed it, so I will probably start with that.

97lilisin
Ago 27, 2013, 1:16 pm

95 -
I don't know if it's a re-discovery per se as I read one Dumas per year -- I spread them out so I can enjoy him longer -- but I do always look forward to the summer which is when I usually read him. This book has just been extra fun since the three volumes means I get to stay with him longer.

98rachbxl
Ago 28, 2013, 3:12 am

Dumas is a big gap in my reading which I keep meaning to fill - and you're really making me want to do that. You're right though - my French-speaking (Belgian) husband snorts when I say that, because to him they're school books. (Like you, I pretty much skipped YA as a genre at the time. I remember finding the few I read a little bit patronizing and couldn't be doing with them when there were so many 'proper' books out there).

99edwinbcn
Ago 28, 2013, 7:53 am

>94 lilisin:

the clerks do also seem to look at me strangely

Really? In most countries the classics are absolute bestsellers. People seem to just keep buying them (which does not always mean they read them, too.)

100lilisin
Ago 28, 2013, 12:08 pm

99 -

The last few clerks I've had have been very young so maybe it's not a strange look but a curious(?) look as to a not-quite-30-girl like me buying classics. Who knows? Maybe I just had something in my teeth when I bought my books. ;)

101AnnieMod
Ago 28, 2013, 5:35 pm

>99 edwinbcn:, 100

Dumas is a "boys" author :) So that may be part of the reason as well :)

102StevenTX
Ago 28, 2013, 11:25 pm

I seldom get a reaction of any kind from book store clerks when they see what I'm buying. My age may intimidate them from saying anything. A few years ago, though, a clerk did blurt out that I was the first man she had ever seen buy anything by Simone de Beauvoir.

Commuting to work, though, I would occasionally get a reaction from other passengers on the bus. It was always "Are you reading that for a class or something?" Many people assume no one would read someone like Dumas or Dostoevsky voluntarily.

Speaking of young book store clerks, last year my wife handed a clerk a handwritten list of books she was looking for. The clerk immediately gave it back saying "Sorry, I can't read cursive."

103dchaikin
Ago 29, 2013, 12:23 am

Oh the cursive thing. Our schools don't teach cursive any more. My daughter sort of taught herself.

104AnnieMod
Ago 29, 2013, 12:27 am

>103 dchaikin: Our schools don't teach cursive any more.

Really?

105NanaCC
Ago 29, 2013, 7:24 am

>103 dchaikin: Ditto, what Annie said. REALLY??

It is bad enough that with all of our techie tools penmanship has suffered. I used to get compliments on my penmanship, but no one would compliment it these days. I use it so infrequently. But not to teach it, what are they thinking?

106StevenTX
Ago 29, 2013, 9:50 am

My grandchildren (ages 15 and 10) have both been taught cursive in public school, but they're not required to use it and probably never will. Some school districts, as Dan said, don't teach it at all. Keyboarding is the thing now, of course, and even elementary school pupils are required to turn in some assignments typed.

In my day everything had to be in cursive, and we weren't even allowed to use ballpoint pens until high school. We all went around with blue stains on our fingers from leaky fountain pens. My penmanship has never been very good, though. I still keep trying to improve it, but the pen never seems to go where I tell it.

107lilisin
Ago 29, 2013, 12:49 pm

I was taught cursive in school but I hated it. My print was so much better that I found it strange that my teachers would encourage a (to me) less efficient and messier method of writing. My print looks like a computer font with just slightly emphasized f, g, j, and y's. (Whatever "hangs out" becomes more pronounced in my handwriting.)

However, just because I don't write in cursive, doesn't mean I can't read it. It doesn't seem that difficult to do. I hear nowadays that a lot of people have thought that the Disney logo reads as Gisney just because they couldn't read the first cursive letter. I'm not sure how these people couldn't get from context that they were watching a Disney movie with a D.

108RidgewayGirl
Ago 30, 2013, 7:15 am

I like cursive, but it's becoming obsolete. I wasn't taught Copperplate after all, but a practical cursive. My kids (twelve and ten) were taught cursive, but are not required to use it, so that my daughter does and my son does not. He has terrible handwriting and is not good as spelling things, but those are the two skills that are of a declining value, so by the time he reaches university age, he'll be typing everything onto a tablet.

Here, in Germany, they still use fountain pens to teach handwriting.

109rebeccanyc
Ago 30, 2013, 8:36 am

I was taught cursive, but it was never emphasized, and I write in a sort of cursive/printing combo! I still (occasionally) write letters by hand!

110mkboylan
Set 1, 2013, 12:46 pm

86 - "seeks freedom.........yearns for connection" I'm with you there. Isn't that one of those hard questions we all face? Can I be totally and completely who I am and still be in relationship with you?

P.S. I just lie in bed at night and look at the books on my shelf as I drift off - thinking of all the possibilities for tomorrow. I just like looking at them!

111lilisin
Modificato: Set 3, 2013, 11:15 pm

I've encountered two pictures tonight of books stored where you can only see the edges. Despite its total lack of practicality, I'm strangely fascinated by the look.



112lilisin
Set 3, 2013, 11:19 pm

Great bookshelf pornography on this website. The one with the guy in his bathtub is to die for. (I'd replace the tub with oogles of floor cushions or just a beautiful lounge chair.)

http://www.designrulz.com/product-design/2012/10/ideas-of-how-to-perfectly-store...

113RidgewayGirl
Set 4, 2013, 4:42 am

Go for it, lilisin. It's can't be much worse than the time I rearranged all my books by spine color. It was visually beautiful and I liked it until I could not find a book I needed to find -- the spine color was different than the color of the cover of the book.

If you do it, will you post pictures?

114lilisin
Set 4, 2013, 6:25 pm

As lovely as it is, the impracticality of it would kill me! Plus, the way these are organized would lead to dust bunnies which are just not allowed to exist. I'm too much of an impulsive duster.

However, I think what I like about these pictures as well is the color scheme. I find the bottom picture particularly romantic.

115lilisin
Set 5, 2013, 7:17 pm

It would seem that the US has indeed bought the translation rights to Murakami's latest book and it will be translated by the standard Philip Gabriel and Jay Rubin. According to this article, publication is due for 2014. I can't wait till it's out so that all you guys can read it. I hate being the only one who knows!

116lilisin
Modificato: Set 17, 2013, 9:49 pm

As I will most likely be finishing the Dumas tonight, I wanted to visit the castles of the book (skipping the Louvre).

The story starts off at the Chateau de Blois where we first meet Montalais and Louise la Valliere followed by the dashing Vicomte de Bragelonne of whom the book is named after despite him not having much of a role in the book.

Chateau de Blois





The castle is much larger than I had imagined.

Later we will have a grand festival for the king in Fontainebleau.

Chateau de Fontainbleau







With the most spectacular event of the novel set in the last castle which was everything I imagined and more. Oh how I would love to spend a day flouncing about the castle imagining myself to be one of the king's guests.

Chateau de Vaux le Vicomte







So beautiful.

And despite going to France every year, I have yet to visit this region. Perhaps I'll finally do that.

None of the pictures are mine and all images are from doing a Google Image search and belong to the respective websites.

117lilisin
Modificato: Set 17, 2013, 9:49 pm

There was also a brief sojourn in England at the Hampton Palace.

Hampton Palace





Then the location of the famous prison of the man in the iron mask.

Saint-Marguerite



And for fun, the little castle that Alexandre Dumas himself lived in for a little while which he named after one of his most famous works.

Chateau de Monte-Cristo



Once again, none of the pictures are mine and all images are from doing a Google Image search and belong to the respective websites.

118rebeccanyc
Set 17, 2013, 9:45 pm

Wonderful photos, Lilisin!

119lilisin
Set 19, 2013, 3:54 am

10) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 3
France
5/5 stars

And with that I have turned the last page and yes, it ends on 5 stars. It was such a wonderful adventure. 2700 pages of wonderful characters, stories, plot developments, schemes, adventure, love, witty dialogues and just pure revel-in-the-moment page-turning imaginings. It was everything I wanted to read and more and it's sad to think this is the last book. It'll be hard I think to go back to the book 2 that I had skipped to read this.

Going back to what the editor wrote:
""Bragelonne", too long, too mixed, too ambiguous -- and with too much melancholy -- will never have, despite our intentions, the notoriety of the other two. Consequentially though, it prolongs them and completes them. "

I disagree with the beginning of this thought. The book was instead just right, perfectly adjusted and well plotted. And yes, it completes the series marvelously. What a wonderful feeling.

-----
SPOILERS BELOW
-----

If I were to have one complaint it would be about the final two chapters and for those who do not know how the story ends, feel free to stop reading here now.

The book was originally going to end when d'Artagnan is in the cemetery, however, the director of the magazine in which this book was published insisted that d'Artagnan be given a death "as much for us as for you". I disagree with that statement. The book had already ended beautifully with d'Artagnan contemplating death and ultimately saying that God would tell him when his time would be as he declared for the others. And that's what it should have been for d'Artagnan was always master of his fate. Instead the end was cheapened because Maquet (Dumas' writing partner) did what the director said. Our hearts had just experienced an ending and then we were brought right back into a story unwillingly just to be spit back out again a chapter later. It was bewildering and made his death comic. Not the end d'Artagnan deserved, despite what the director thought.

However, that is my only scrutiny. Otherwise, the book is a triumph for me.

120rebeccanyc
Set 19, 2013, 7:19 am

You make Dumas sound so enticing!

121StevenTX
Set 19, 2013, 9:39 am

Several years ago I spent a week in Blois and most of a day just touring the château inside and out. It is a wonderful place with so much history. I highly recommend a visit.

122RidgewayGirl
Set 19, 2013, 11:01 am

Would you please post that review to the book's page? There are no other reviews. Also, you have me wanting to read the whole thing, despite your mention of 2700 pages.

123lilisin
Modificato: Set 19, 2013, 2:38 pm

120 -
That's the goal! :)

122 -

Depending on which version of the work, there are reviews posted. My touchstone just happens to lead to a version with no reviews or book cover. I did post my review under my copy if that helps.

And don't worry about the 2700 pages. It only took me a month and a half to read the entire book (I don't read every day but when I do, it was about 100-200 page spurts) and I'm usually a bit of a lazy reader. Dumas is such a page turner though that you easily reach 50 pages and then it's just as easy to reach 100.

For comparison I believe The Count of Monte-Cristo which is shorter took 3 months to read while Don Quixote which is also shorter took an entire summer to read. This particular Dumas though is much easier to follow so easier to read.

124rebeccanyc
Set 19, 2013, 4:46 pm

lilisin, I might have asked you this before, but I forget what you said, and I'm too lazy to go look! What would you recommend for starting to read Dumas?

125lilisin
Set 19, 2013, 4:53 pm

I actually believe that, unlike Hugo, Dumas can be started with any book as his books are really just adventure stories.

I personally started with his best The Count of Monte-Cristo and would recommend that but if you want a shorter book as a feeler then Queen Margot is also very good. I'm not saying The Three Musketeers because although good, I feel it is almost too frantic a book and I think Dumas is at his best when he stretches things out.

126rebeccanyc
Set 19, 2013, 5:22 pm

Thanks, lilisin. I think I'll start with Queen Margot because I don't know when I'll have a chance to read a really long book!

127RidgewayGirl
Set 20, 2013, 6:10 am

Queen Margot was made into a movie in which the costumes, while being utterly unhistorical, were really lovely.

128lilisin
Ott 4, 2013, 12:03 am

The Dumas was such a great adventure for me that I haven't been able to dip into another book since. Not ready for that just yet. Instead I've been reading lots of comics in Japanese as I'm on a Japanese reading kick. But since I don't post about comics, the thread will remain quiet for now.

In the meantime, I did find a good review of Murakami's latest from a blogger I follow. I liked the book moreso than the blogger I believe but since his review is better written than mine, I thought I'd share it.

http://neojaponisme.com/2013/10/04/colorless-tazaki-tsukuru-and-his-years-of-pil...

129rebeccanyc
Ott 4, 2013, 11:19 am

Just to let you know I'm reading La Reine Margot and it's quite the page turner (even though I have to jump back to the notes a lot); in fact, I was reluctant to stop reading and get off the subway yesterday! Will have to look for the movie.

130lilisin
Ott 28, 2013, 2:36 pm

Another good review of Murakami's latest book by a girl whose reviews I enjoy.

131stretch
Nov 6, 2013, 7:46 pm

Well that just became an instant resource, she has some very interesting takes on the few books we have read in common. I'll look forward to her future updates!

132lilisin
Nov 14, 2013, 7:22 pm

As I continue my never-ending career hunt, I started today a temporary job as a substitute teacher. And I have to say that it was the worst experience ever.

The students were just ridiculous. I've never heard so many cuss words in my life! I was substituting for theater (I thought this would be easy) and yet, when they would do their skits (which took GREAT effort to even get them to do that!) it was just a constant shooting of guns, screaming motherf***er and other cuss words I don't even know how to use.

When I finally got them to do a skit, Santa Clause had his throat slashed by Mrs. Santa Clause because he was apparently cheating on her. Then she went on a killing spree of all the other students on the stage. That made me quickly learn to tell them no gun scenes, violent scenes and no foul language.

But it was just impossible. Rambunctious little brats with no respect. Kids who were supposed to be in class but were skipping would constantly be knocking on our door trying to say hi to their friends. I had cops and troubled youth advisers coming to my class to pull out students. It was just ridiculous!

Earlier in my thread we were discussing how cursive is no longer taught in schools. No wonder it's no longer taught! We can't even teach these students how to be quiet and have respect for one another!

In fact, even the teachers need education themselves. When I walked into the classroom the word agenda was spelled as ajenda on the chalkboard!

What an exhausting day! And it was only a half-day!

133avidmom
Modificato: Nov 14, 2013, 7:44 pm

I've worked in a few high school classrooms with a few different teachers. Take heart, not all classes are as bad as that. I work with students who, though at times can be pretty rambunctious, they can also be very quiet and respectful. :) Thank God!

ETA: As far as "agenda" spelled with a "J".
That's just sad.
And scary.

134NanaCC
Nov 14, 2013, 8:51 pm

Your entire day sounds sad.

135stretch
Nov 14, 2013, 9:09 pm

That sounds rough. In college as part of our major in a STEM program had to shadow a teacher for a week in one of the many under served communities to see if we wanted to be teachers. That was one of the worst weeks ever.

136lilisin
Modificato: Nov 14, 2013, 9:25 pm

It was incredibly depressing. The first skit they tried they went immediately to gun and domestic violence roles but try to pull them away from that and they would just freeze.

When I asked them why they chose that topic some answered "because it's reality". I tried asking them why they wanted to bring reality to their imagination then, but they had already stopped paying attention at that point.

Of course, I didn't tell you another shocking part.

The reason this was a half-day is because the teacher started off the day but realized he was too sick to continue. So I actually met the teacher (he seemed to be in his late 20s like me). When I walked into his class his students were all watching Vine videos and Youtube videos on the computers (flat screen Apple computers). I'm not too sure what Vine videos of stupid idiots with turned around hats and hoodies smoking marijuana has to do with theater but for some reason that was acceptable to this teacher. Perhaps he has given up on these kids? But no wonder they have no imagination if all they do is watch videos of other people doing dumb things.

----
stretch -

Just teaching college undergrads (at excellent universities mind you) made me not want to teach as a career. Unfortunately I can't seem to get a job better suited to me (I've been shooed away many times for being overqualified) so I keep getting stuck in these teaching jobs. I do put in my best effort since I refuse to give less than 100% but I definitely couldn't teach at this level to students this poorly disciplined.

137rebeccanyc
Modificato: Nov 15, 2013, 7:33 am

Oh lilisin, that does sound depressing and difficult. Hoping you can find something better soon.

138avaland
Nov 15, 2013, 8:19 am

>117 lilisin: Thanks for the photos! I love illustrations :-)

Sorry your substitute teacher experience was not better than it was. I imagine the world they grow up in is very different than the one you are familiar with. Perhaps you might explore teaching in a related corporate atmosphere? There are certainly loads of science and tech jobs up this way...are you just looking around Texas? My oldest daughter moved from teaching high school science into the corporate world (science-related) and loves it. She's in marketing now and teaches some of the seminars they do at trade shows.

139lilisin
Nov 21, 2013, 5:38 pm

It's been a week and nothing has changed. Not one day where I haven't had to raise my voice and teach what it means to respect someone and how to listen to someone. And of course they don't listen. I've taught from elementary to high school and from regular classes to special education. I've noticed my driving skills coming home have deteriorated because I'm so annoyed that I can't focus properly on my driving. I've had bad dreams all week because of these students. And not a day hasn't gone by where I haven't had to change the teacher's mistakes. I was teaching 6th grade English today for the first class and she apparently doesn't know what a metaphor is. She couldn't even spell rhythm correctly. She had it as 'rhythem'. Onomatopoeia was misspelled at every corner and yet she's trying to teach this to the kids.

It's just not worth it I've determined.

----

avaland -
I've tried so many options and for some reason I can't find anything and I don't understand why. Even the girl who got fired from my last job found a job immediately after! Doing the same job she got fired from! And yet I'm too "overqualified" to do the same job I had before. I just don't get it. At all.

----

On another note I finished reading Oe's Hiroshima Notes which I have lots of things to comment on when I get to it.

140RidgewayGirl
Nov 22, 2013, 6:09 am

Sorry, lilisin. That sounds dreadful.

Looking forward to your comments on Oe as I have a book of his short stories on hand.

141rebeccanyc
Nov 22, 2013, 7:20 am

What a nightmare. Hope you can find something else.

142NanaCC
Nov 22, 2013, 8:41 am

It is awful that the kids are so undisciplined and disrespectful. But what is happening with the teachers? How do they get that far if they can't spell? I do hope you find something else soon.

143mkboylan
Nov 22, 2013, 12:02 pm

One of my all time best professors ever told us the first day of class he was dyslexic so we'd have to deal with some spelling errors. This was in the days of chalkboards, which of course didn't have spellcheck.

This situation sounds like a nightmare for you. So awful! I still remember one semester ten years ago when just one disruptive student in one of my classes drove me crazy. I was ready to quit that semester. That was the only time in ten years of teaching that I didn't absolutely love it. Course ten years isn't long enough to get burnt out! Hope things get better soon.

144kidzdoc
Nov 23, 2013, 10:22 am

I'm sorry to hear about your horrible teaching situation, lilisin. I hope that you find a more rewarding position soon.

145StevenTX
Nov 23, 2013, 11:39 am

Your teaching experience sounds horrifying. I assume it is Austin ISD? It's certainly not that way everywhere. My grandchildren go to public school in an ethnically and economically mixed suburb (Garland ISD) and they describe it as very congenial and orderly.

146lilisin
Nov 25, 2013, 2:07 pm

Thanks everyone for the words of comfort.

Steven, yes, this is AISD. I grew up in Eanes and knew there was a gap between the two school districts but this has really opened my eyes as to the difference. And I do believe that schools that are ethnically diverse can be successful. It just happens that these are not.

I read this article today which very accurately describes the plight I have been witnessing:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/06/living/teachers-want-to-tell-parents/index.html

After this experience I feel like I could write a series of letters: to the administration, to the teachers, to the students, to the parents, and even to myself. There is definitely much to be said.

I'd like to say that I did finally have a good experience on Friday when I taught 1st graders. Perhaps because at this age they are still very pliable to discipline and are eager to learn (for the most part). I did have to send one student to the office for being too rowdy and for not listening but for the most part I was able to teach discipline. When they got too loud or stopped listening I would get their attention and go over the situation.

"Do you guys think you are being good right now?" -- "No"
"Because you are being too loud." -- "Yes"
"And you aren't paying attention to my directions." -- "Yes"
"So do you guys think you can show me more respect?" -- "Yes"
"Will you guys show me more respect?" -- "Yes"

I think this was a good exercise to get them to realize their behavior; something I couldn't do with all the older students I've been dealing with.

However, I still saw a grave problem.
This class was a purely Hispanic class and the class was considered bilingual in the sense that I was to teach half in Spanish and half in English. I started the day teaching math in English and then did language arts in Spanish once the math lesson was over. I was initially having trouble settling them down during math but they were much more amicable when I switched to Spanish.

They were doing very well in Spanish but when I switched back to English for science, I noticed the huge disparity between the two languages. Although they could write very well in Spanish, they had no sense for English spelling as they would drop all their vowels (I think children who don't know how to sound out words tend to do this when trying to spell).

I was talking to the teacher next door about this classroom and why these students were being taught in Spanish. She told me that this teacher (who is Mexican) ONLY wanted to teach in Spanish and even had all the non-Spanish speakers kicked out of his class. For some reason the administration allowed this.

Now, I am all for a child keeping their culture as I was able to keep my French culture while growing up in the US. But if they are going to school in the US, then they should be doing all their classes in English. These kids, because they are being taught in Spanish are already behind from all the other kids around them. And being economically disadvantaged, they are being kept back even more by being allowed to do only Spanish in school.

I tried to relate this to my family's experience. When my brothers came to the US, they were already 6 and 7 years old and knew no English, yet they went straight into American school. They had no problem learning English. I was born in the US but French was still my first language and I had no problem learning English. That's because we were so young that it was easy for us to adapt. (And youth isn't even a factor, as my parents became fluent speakers of English despite not knowing any English when they came here.) But here's the thing. When we came here, we had no other little French boys and girls to talk to all day in class while all these Hispanic students are constantly surrounded by their language. The potential for not speaking English is huge! Thus, I am very confused that the administration continues to allow such a class.

Anyway, that was very long, but I appreciate all those who have been listening to this learning experience of mine.

147Polaris-
Nov 25, 2013, 2:21 pm

Very interesting comments Lilisin, and I also want to wish you well in your endeavours with teaching. I wouldn't have your patience with the situation at all, as I would want to give them all the nasty 'sergeant-major' treatment I'm sure! At least at first anyway.

148baswood
Nov 25, 2013, 2:33 pm

That's a real problem for the Hispanic kids, because to learn English at that age they need constant exposure and they won't get it, if some of the classes are in Spanish; they will just switch off for the English classes.

Total immersion is much the best way; where I live in France; English kids after the initial cold water bath soon pick up the French language especially when they are between the ages of 5-8, after a couple of years they are bilingual.

149lilisin
Modificato: Nov 25, 2013, 3:08 pm

Polaris -

Oh goodness I could have used you with some of the older kids because they do scare me. I'm a 5'4 woman who weighs around 110 pounds and sometimes I think I'm lucky that the kids still see me as an adult and so that bypasses my size. But you have to be careful. While with the young 1st graders I can put my hand on their shoulder as encouragement you absolutely must not even put a finger on an older child.

I had to escort a kid out of my class because he wasn't even in my class! He just barged in to try and grab a buddy of his. I gently put my right hand on his shoulder, indicated the door with my left hand and firmly told him to leave but instead of a "sorry" I got a violent outcry of "man, don't touch me!" as he whipped his arm up in a very threatening way like those kids who try to barge at you with their elbow to pretend like they're hitting you but pull back at the last moment. So yes, very scary! Not only at the moment but you're scared of losing your job in case the kid goes to the office and is like "my teacher touched me!". I'm definitely not going to win the case.

As for the endeavors with teaching, I hope they don't last long. I even decided not to work these two days before Thanksgiving.

150rebeccanyc
Modificato: Nov 25, 2013, 5:47 pm

Oh, I do feel bad for you lilisin.

The article you linked to in #146 reminded me of an op-ed piece I read in yesterday's NY Times about whether kids are too coddled.

Also, we have some schools in New York City that are officially dual-language. Classes are taught in two different languages on alternate days or according to some other schedule. The daughter of a friend of mine went to one that used Spanish and English: the Spanish speakers learned English and the English speakers learned Spanish. The children of another friend are going to a school that is dual Chinese and English, so they are learning Chinese. We joke that they're going to save us when the Chinese take over. Here is an article about dual language schools in NYC.

151lilisin
Nov 25, 2013, 6:55 pm

Rebecca,

Although I'm relating my experiences and trying to give my observations I obviously shouldn't be trying to make blanket statements over whether or not kids are being too coddled or not disciplined enough. First reaction? Yes. But admittedly, upon reading the comments from actual teachers in the discipline, I found myself a little lost as to what they were talking about (Core Principles?). I have however been trying to think about how I would relate to my class if I were their actual teacher and I know I would be much stricter that perhaps some teachers feel comfortable doing (in terms of what the administration allows).

As for the dual-language program, it sounds really great and sounds like the ideal compromise. Here, you have two groups learning each other's languages so you create this dual immersion environment. All of this while neither group becomes dependent on their native language (unlike the Hispanics here only speaking Spanish here). I think that's fantastic.

I know that I have invited my best friend several times to France with me and while we always have the most amazing time, I hate that it forces me to speak English nearly the entire time. Going to France now is my only opportunity to really be in my native environment (since I no longer live at home) and when I have my friend come along, it really does nothing for me. In fact, this summer she really wanted to join me and I finally told her no: that I needed the immersion and I needed to spend the entire month doing only French things without that English taint. I did invite her to come with me this winter to France but I must admit I'm happy that it appears she won't be coming. Although I will miss her company, I'm happy that I'll once again be in my pure French environment.

In any case, this little anecdote serves to note that you need to be in a pure environment to pick up a language at the fluent level which, sadly, the students I've had are not getting.

152rebeccanyc
Nov 26, 2013, 7:26 am

lilisin, I just thought it was an interesting article and your link reminded me of it; of course you can't generalize from your students who sound like they have other problems anyway. I think the dual-language stuff is cool too.

And I completely understand about immersion, and I do think students who come here should learn English. I don't want to harp on the "my ancestors had to" theme, but I just think for young people to succeed in this country (which is presumably one of the reasons why their parents moved here in the first place) they have to learn English. Of course, that's what you said too.

153lilisin
Modificato: Nov 26, 2013, 7:23 pm

I wanted to thank everyone for listening to my rants and comments and observations this past week. It was a great stress relief for me to relate these, and it provided this strange new perspective in the world of teaching outside of the rich, white bubble I'm used to so that was really wonderful.

Since everything was so very negative, I did want to provide one humorous anecdote when I taught the 1st graders so as to end on a positive note. It was a usual day until the first child asked me if he could sharpen his pencil. I sent him off to the sharpener for how I dare deny a child a sharpened pencil! He fluttered off and went back to his chair. Then a second child came and asked the same, then a third, then a fourth. Then I think the first child came back to ask me but since some of the boys looked similar I wasn't too sure. The rumbling of the sharpener in the background, I continued with the lessons not heading to much attention.

Suddenly, I see a kid coming back with 7 freshly sharpened pencils. And then another with 4, another with just 1 but, hadn't they already sharpened the pencil? I was starting to get confused.

That's when a girl showed me her pristinely sharped pencil and asked me if she could sharpen it. I furrowed my brow and told her it was already sharp and that she didn't need to go to the sharpener. I turned my back to help another child when suddenly I feel a light tap on my back. The little girl from before shows me her newly headless pencil and asks me if she can sharpen her pencil. Lo and behold she had purposely broken her pencil so she could sharpen it.

That's when I caught on. The entire day, these kids had been purposely breaking the tips of their pencils to sharpen them! What an obsession! I laughed it off and then banned the sharpener for the rest of the day.

Funnily enough, when I recounted this story to the teacher next door she said that indeed, the 1st graders are obsessed with sharpening their pencils. So amusing!

It just reminded me of the several conversations we've had on LT over pencils and pencil sharpeners.

Anyway, thank you again!

154NanaCC
Nov 26, 2013, 7:34 pm

The little ones are the best! I'm glad you had something to smile about after the experience.

155mkboylan
Nov 27, 2013, 12:05 pm

That's funny lilisin!

By the way, I'm just remembering the value of having someone to debrief with after a day in the classroom. It makes such a difference and is not something a sub often has access to. It's one thing I missed when I went from working in a clinic to private practice. I had to make sure I found another way to provide that processing time for myself.

156RidgewayGirl
Nov 27, 2013, 1:14 pm

My son used to love sharpening his pencils so much. The number of pencils I bought! The number of pencils I still buy -- now he loses them.

157stretch
Nov 27, 2013, 4:52 pm

Haha... too funny, with a new slate of crank sharpeners coming in this week it is safe to say I am as happy as first grader,

158lilisin
Dic 11, 2013, 7:59 pm

11) Kenzaburo Oe : Hiroshima Notes
Japan
3.5/5 stars

I haven't yet written my review for this one and I do still intend to do so but for now I'm just marking this as read as I prepare to leave for vacation this Saturday.

159lilisin
Dic 11, 2013, 8:06 pm

As I prepare to leave for vacation and I doubt I'll read anymore this year, because of that, I wanted to leave this thread with a sort of summary assuming I won't be able to update later.

These are the books I acquired this year:
Books gifted to me in 2013:
1) Jeff Backhaus : Hikikomori and the Rental Sister
2) Alistair Horne : Seven Ages of Paris
3) Louis Aragon : La Semaine Sainte
4) Louis Aragon : Les Beaux Quartiers
5) Haruki Murakami : 色彩を持たない多崎つくると、彼の巡礼の年
6) Alain-Fournier : Le Grand Meaulnes
7) Otsuichi : 暗いところで待ち合わせ
8) Hitonari Tsuji : サヨナライツカ
9) Mieko Kanai : Oh, Tama!

Books purchased in 2013:
10) Kobo Abe : Secret Rendezvous
11) Kobo Abe : Kangaroo Notebook
12) Akira Yoshimura : On Parole
13, 14, 15) Alexandre Dumas : Le Vicomte de Bragelonne Volumes 1,2,3
16) Victor Hugo : Quatrevingt-Treize
17) Amelie Nothomb : Le Voyage d'Hiver
18) Donald Richie : The Inland Sea
19) Nagai Kafu : Rivalry: A Geisha's Tale
20) Kenzaburo Oe : Hiroshima Notes

Out of the 20 books I acquired, I read 6 right away, am currently reading another, and have not yet received number 9 from the ER program. (Hoping it doesn't arrive while I'm gone.) So all in all, I'm only up 8 books this year which sounds about right. A good thing about this list is that as I acquired books, I would read them which means I'm not creating ridiculous amounts of TBR backpiling as I've done in the past. This way, long books like the Dumas don't linger for too long and are read at my peak interest for the book. But I was not good about reading older reads.

160NanaCC
Dic 11, 2013, 8:12 pm

Enjoy your vacation.

161lilisin
Modificato: Dic 12, 2013, 10:27 am

When it comes to analyzing my reading, if I were to put all three volumes of the Dumas into one all-encompassing volume, it would come out to just 9 books read this year. Definitely the lowest amount I've read in a long time. However, while my general novel reading decreased, my comic reading increased. And normally I don't post about comics but I thought I'd include them to show the trend in my reading.

Read in French:
Detective Conan 62-70
Naruto 24-42

Read in Japanese:
よつばと! 1-6
Angel Heart エンジェルハート1-3
俺たちのフィールド 1-14
気まぐれオレンジロード 5-10
チェリーズに乾杯
シュガーなお年頃
STEPステップ
KISSして・超能力少女
恋心幻想曲
My Boy x My Love
セーラームーン 2-3

This amounts to 65 manga volumes which is about 65 more than I used to read! And usually if I sit down to read one volume, I read it in one sitting. So that's quite a bit of reading actually!

I have to thank this one online web contest for this sudden influx of reading. It's a project called Tadoku where -- depending on the month -- you have two weeks or a month to read as much as you can in the language that you are learning. My language of choice is Japanese so I would read, then document my reading and according to how many pages I read and how many pages other contestants have read, my ranking would go up or down. So it creates this mini-competition that was the best thing for my Japanese. I would find myself saying I was done for the night but upon updating my ranking I would notice I was only 5 pages away from the next person so I'd pick the book back up and read 6 pages to beat them. A great contest.

In any case, all those moments of not updating, well, this is what I was up to.

162lilisin
Dic 11, 2013, 8:23 pm

Which leads to the final bit (I believe).

Books read in 2013:
1) Amelie Nothomb : Peplum
2) Takashi Nagai : The Bells of Nagasaki
3) Colette : Chéri
4) Yukio Mishima : Sun and Steel
5) Kobo Abe : Secret Rendezvous
6) Haruki Murakami : 色彩を持たない多崎つくると、彼の巡礼の年 (Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage)
7) Banana Yoshimoto : アルゼンチンババア (Argentine Hag)
8) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 1
9) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 2
10) Alexandre Dumas : Le vicomte de Bragelonne Tome 3
11) Kenzaburo Oe : Hiroshima Notes

(Counting Dumas as one book although it was 3 separate volumes)

Countries visited:
Belgium
France x2
Japan x6

Languages read:
Japanese x2
French x3
English x4

Very balanced reading. No surprises!

Goals for 2014:
1) Read more novels in Japanese (I'm actually 2/3 of my way through a book right now)
2) Continue with my Japan-related books but even more heavily so.
3) Read the travelogues I have (since I'll be hosting this thread in the 2nd quarter)
4) Keep an even balance between my languages
5) Maybe go back to reading in Spanish if I find a book I want to read
6) Read one Thomas Mann book for my Author Theme Reads group

163rebeccanyc
Dic 12, 2013, 8:05 am

Have a great vacation, lilisin. You certainly need it! Looking forward to "seeing" you when you get back, and thanks for all the Japanese and French books you've led me to read.

164mkboylan
Dic 15, 2013, 1:20 pm

159 what a great point about reading a book at your peak interest.

161 That does sound like a fun competition.

I just can't figure out what kind of a vacation would not include reading.

165lilisin
Dic 17, 2013, 7:23 am

This is a vacation where I'm constantly out and about being social. Maybe on the train next week I'll get to read. But the good thing about France is all the books that are tempting me in all the wonderful bookstores! So much selection, especially books in translation.

166mkboylan
Dic 17, 2013, 4:22 pm

Have a wonderful time!

167lilisin
Gen 13, 2014, 10:32 am

I have just come back from vacation and was able to set up my new thread here. Thanks everyone for stopping by!