Klassische Stücke

If you need a thread, just ask: I'll raid Mrs Bookworm's sewing box.

I am only gradually entering the phase of life dominated by the canonical "great" repertoire, and have not got far into Beethoven appreciation, or into the whole performance critique thing. The latest background music I had on was the Sinfonie singuliere of Berwald: I love symphonies, particularly those which have a quality which I can only describe as "dynamic".*

Today, inspired by all you fogies, I shall hunt for some serious piano music: I have lined up Schumann Symphonic Etudes (Stefan Vladar), some Schubert sonatas (Mitsuko Uchida) and the Beethoven piano concertos (Brendel/Rattle).

* (Such as Beethoven 7th, Dvorak 9th, Nielsen 1st, Sibelius 2nd, Vaughan Williams 4th, and Berwald Singuliere and Serieuse.)

Well, the Schumann and Schubert were a bit on the gloomy side, I have to say. I was grateful to the radio for a baroque flute concerto by some forgotten composer.

One of the problems with the classical repertoire is that CDs promised us "Perfect Sound Forever" - so that today's artists (and their record companies...) find themselves to be in competition, not just with pop music, and not just with their contemporaries, but with 30 or 50 (...or 80...) years of recordings.

EMI has addressed this problem by sweeping up 50-or-so years of recordings by their artists into One Big Box of Beethoven (50 CDs!), mostly by artists associated with EMI France. (Which is a slightly odd perspective on Beethoven, but interesting nonetheless.)

I'm currently working my way through the box, finding some gems (Paul Tortelier!), some oddities (LvB's mandolin(?!?!) repertoire). This morning I'm listening to the Hungarian Quartet in a 1966 recording of The Big Fugue.

There are fantastic bargains to be had. Stuff I was paying for through the nose only 15 years ago...

#3, 4: Case in point...



Soon to be released: the Furtwängler Legacy, on 107 CDs, issued by Membran - a massive compilation in a single set of what are considered some of the best performances of the century, by one of the most important conductors of the century - already listed for under $140 at some stores. If you were a newcomer to classical music and started buying CDs right this moment, this would be the place to start.

My main reservation is the label itself. Although I have several otherwise rare recordings issued by them, the consensus is that quality control can be occasionally underwhelming, and the documentation and general care taken over details is lacking (certainly nowhere near the level of Orfeo, Audite, Testament etc. which specialize in re-issuing famous historical recordings; Membran is like a slightly better, German version of the Italian label Urania, whose issues are to be acquired until after much cross-checking and a good leftover dose of skepticism. Many CDs are said to have dubious sources and are quite often unauthorized.)

My second reservation is that I want to strangle someone, anyone, maybe just myself, for having dislodged a mountain of cash and credit on collecting just slightly less than half of this compilation over the years, across various CDs and labels, some individual pieces having been long sought and purchased dearly, while others still get pushed down on my ever-growing wishlist; although I'd probably still save money by buying this set and disposing of duplicates, I'll probably avoid doing so out of sheer resentment and the need to cling to some artificial and hyper-rationalized notions of "value". Those who have no history of collecting classical records have no idea, on the one hand, what a mind-boggling deal this is (if the sound quality is tolerable, you're getting treasures for pennies - like buying a good chunk of the Penguin Classics at 1 dollar a book, new) and what a lot of heartbreak and/or teeth-gnashing this causes in those who share my predicament; and on the other hand, how this reflects on the alternately maddening and sad state of the major classical music labels.

But that's a pretty long post for another day.

My second reservation is that I want to strangle someone, anyone, maybe just myself, for having dislodged a mountain of cash and credit on collecting just slightly less than half of this compilation over the years...

I hear you.

My all-time bargain? Ten years ago I scored the Philips Great Pianists of the 20th Century box from a German internet store. I think it took me the better part of the decade since then to work through it.

I still regret never finding the Bach 2000 set at a bargain price.

Oh, that's a great catch, Bob. Of course, there are some strange choices--Pletnev and two volumes of Ogdon but no Pogorelich or Tatyana Nikolaeva?--but that is probably a reflection of the editor's personal taste...

List exist mostly to argue about.

A lot of it was a function of what they had the rights to. I forget the exact details of the corporate shenanigans, but it was pretty much limited to whoever was under the corporate umbrella in 1999.

Still, an embarrassment of riches: 200 discs, delivered from Germany for $273.

Still wistful I never found the Bach box at a similar price....

Oh yeah, utterly fantastic price. I bought the Godowsky duo for almost 40 bucks, if memory serves.

#8: an embarrassment of riches: 200 discs, delivered from Germany for $273

I don't have a very strong interest in the set now (it was something to aspire to when it was first released - when I was a wide-eyed teen and had almost nothing) but that is pretty ridiculous, a steal. Similar deals that I've missed (and sometimes continue to miss, on account of not being a trillionaire) make me want to caterwaul. The Olivier Messiaen Complete Edition on DG (32 CDs, UPC: 028948013333) was issued in 2009, was available for several months and at one time went down to as low as $60; and now it's either unavailable or unaffordable. I think I've already spent more on individual recordings in that collection. Not to mention the many others I passed on thinking I could always find them later or for less... I won't start listing them or I might get quite depressed.

#8: I still regret never finding the Bach 2000 set at a bargain price.

Ah, but I haff the perfect solution für Sie! The Hänssler edition of The Complete Works of J.S. Bach, on 172 CDs for as little as about $218 online (UPC 4010276023708):





Well, fine, I haven't heard it so I'm being a little presumptuous here, but it's a highly acclaimed set and its predecessor, issued almost a decade ago, was, I believe, far more dear. Blurbs/Info: "produced in cooperation with the International Bach Academy - recorded under the direction of Professor Helmuth Rilling from 1975 to 2000 - Rilling was awarded the "Grand Prix du Disque" for his landmark recordings of cantatas and they now enjoy benchmark status - 1 CD Rom with 6.000 pages (including all song texts, introductions, biographical notes in German, English, French and Spanish) and a search function for looking into the texts, paging and marking through - 2 booklets with BWV- and CD- number listing and additional information.

And those who don't want to rip all this music to their computer can buy the entire set on an iPod:



You do get back-up DVDs, but the bitrate is going to be lower and the technology will date fast, so I'd still rather have the CDs.

If you already know about the set and don't care for it, my apologies.

FYI Bill McLaughlin is focusing on Bach's St Matthew Passion all week, comparing different recordings, etc. (11pm EST USofA @ http://www.wqxr.org/ or WQXR on iTunes)

(N. B. this is not an advertisement dear antispamistas).

I don't have a very strong interest in the set now...

Well, there's so much stuff, we learned several artists (and rep) that were new to us.

(A sidebar for nerds: One of my geekier friends once looked into the problem of entertainment-per-unit-cost; he decided that the 'instant remainder' edition of The Complete Shakespeare was probably your best entertainment value, at something like 10¢/hour; but the Piano Box isn't too far behind that....)

Similar deals that I've missed (and sometimes continue to miss, on account of not being a trillionaire) make me want to caterwaul.

Yeah, I was doing all I could to hang around the Manhattan Tower Records going-out-of-business sale, checking in every week or so while waiting for prices to drop, because they had a Bach 2000 box. But NYC had too many people who didn't need to wait for a deeper discount....

Yeah, I have a few discs out of the Hänssler box - it's the problem that you identified upthread, with paying piecemeal for a fraction of the set, until eventually the investment totals more than the clearance price. Grrr.

I think I'm too much of a Luddite to spend Real Money for music on an ephemeral iPod. At minimum, you're gambling that you'll have it backed up properly when the batteries die. (And yeah, DVD backup sound like its own headache.)

the Manhattan Tower Records going-out-of-business sale

The one in Lincoln Center?! Aaaaaaaaah! I still weep! The hours, days, weeks of my life I've spent sunk in those leather armchairs in front of the CD consoles! It still shocks me that THAT store closed! How could they, next to, well, everything--the Met, the ballet, Alice Tully, Fisher Hall, freakin' JUILLIARD... Was it my fault? Should I have spent more? I don't think I ever left without 2-3 hundred bucks worth of goods.

I don't even know what took their place... What's in there now?

I think it's a Circuit City? There's a new Apple Store right around there, too, they might have replaced the Circuit City by now?

I've been by there, but haven't stopped in the neighborhood since, well, since Tower went out.

(Just for boring geographical reasons (closer to the trains/the photo district/the Strand), I spent a lot more time at the downtown store.)

Now *I'm* getting nostalgic for Lincoln Center Tower....

I didn't much care for the downtown (Soho) store, mostly because it wasn't particularly rich in classical, but do you remember the Tower Outlet next to Astor Place, with all the glorious cut-outs, OOPs, imports nobody wanted, and music mags at 25% of cover price? My god, there'll never be anything like it again, will there...

No luck shopping today (really shouldn't complain)... yeah, Amazon lists your Lindsays SQs at 7.99, but they are out of stock, so, nothing.

That's odd - what I have is the Lindsay's ASV cycle re-issued on Musical Heritage Society - and spread over 10 discs. I paid about twice that, but still think it's a bargain.

A dollar-a-disc for real music? My kids pay more than that per track for their new-fangled iPods....

I didn't much care for the downtown (Soho) store...

Well, OTOH, they were better at meeting my need for a Pop Trash fix. AND there was the lamented Annex...
(There was briefly (from about 1990 to the year 2000) a third store, "Tower Books", too, across Lafayette...that was an ill-conceived business plan, and the first to close.)

Tower Books, Tower Books... can't say I remember... Is the Virgin on Union still operating? Out of the "smoking asshole" building?

Well, darn, i'd really prefer the Lindsays, but I'm looking at the complete SQs by Budapest SQ (on Sony, probably their old CBS/Columbia stuff), and the more I look, the more I like it... 8 CDs for 21 including postage...

Is the Virgin on Union still operating?

Pretty sure it's gone; I was only in there a couple times. There are still a couple branches around mid-town.

I was at the Virgin store on Union when it was closing (2009). I stepped away from the Criterions for a bit, and when I returned, the "Missing" DVD set I had my eyes on was already gone.

SIGH! Not that I was a great customer there, but what's a city without book and music stores to pop in on important hubs of one's city-prowling net?

but what's a city without book and music stores to pop in on...

Yeah, nobody misses it more than me (...well, present company excepted, of course).

When I was young, we used to drive to NYC to visit the Strand / Tower and stock up on half-price review copies / obscure music... today, I routinely get 40% off at my neighborhood Borders.

Here's a article on how the digital age is changing the 'collecting' impulse - because today, there's no longer such a thing as a 'rarity':

http://www.slate.com/id/2291532/pagenum/all/

"In a recent issue of the New York Review of Books, the poet Dan Chiasson wrote at length about Keith Richards' autobiography and made an interesting point near the end, about how scarcity and rarity, long ago, actually fueled artistic endeavor:"

(T)he experience of making and taking in culture is now, for the first time in human history, a condition of almost paralyzing overabundance. For millennia it was a condition of scarcity; and all the ways we regard things we want but cannot have, in those faraway days, stood between people and the art or music they needed to have: yearning, craving, imagining the absent object so fully that when the real thing appears in your hands, it almost doesn't match up. Nobody will ever again experience what Keith Richards and Mick Jagger experienced in Dartford, scrounging for blues records.

On the other hand...

#22

True, quite true.

And, about there no more being any "rarities", that's completely all right with me. I LOVE that "everything" is available (of course it isn't, but getting there). I know exactly what he's talking about, the difficulty and striving to see something, read or hear something that might cross your path once in a lifetime, the cumbersome accumulation of information and knowledge, and, yes--I can't really compute what gets lost once that process is foreshortened or completely eliminated. Maybe that's a problem for the young ones, I don't know (the internet may have it all, but you still need education to separate the wheat from the chaff, or even just understand what it is you are looking at).

But, for me... this is pretty much paradise.

HOWEVER!

I'd still prefer to have real stores to go to... the body, who will feed the body?

I routinely get 40% off at my neighborhood Borders.

Well, I used to, with coupons, but all three Borders stores closest to my house have closed, and there is now, to my amazement, NO "new" book stores anywhere near where I live.

Thank god there are are a couple of decent used bookshops near my house.

And, unless I want to count the crap they sell at Target, there are no close music stores either.

#24: That was basically the fear, wasn't it: the Big Box stores would come in and destroy the local independents - and now they're gone, and all that's left are the tumbleweeds....

Here, we lost the most distant of our three Borders. But still, one of them is on my way home from work - which is significantly less effort for me than the old days of mounting a ~monthly Book Safari to the big city.

Too little time to comment (damn work!) but love reading this thread. Like others, I very much mourn the death of Tower Records (in much of Southern California they were virtually the only stores to carry a broad selection of classical music and music magazines and they generally stocked an interesting, albeit eccentric, selection of small press books and graphic novels).

Right now, besides the ubiquitous Amazon, I like Arkiv for in-print classical recordings and Berkshire Record Outlet for cut-outs and out of print recordings (I've actually been buying records from BRO since the dawn of the CD/final twilight of the LP. Boy, do I feel old!)

On the subject of the Philips Great Pianists set: I own it and I'm not really sorry that I do (I did get it "used" and at a major discount) but I don't believe that I'd particularly recommend it to anyone else and I wouldn't repurchase it knowing what I do now. Leaving aside the issue of rights (clearly important from a business standpoint but otherwise irrelevant when you attempt to market your set as the definitive survey of a century's piano artists), the compilation is weirdly skewed and appears to reflect the particular and rather peculiar tastes of the series' executive producer far more than any general consensus on great modern pianism. According to a 1999 article in The Observer, executive producer Tom Deacon's major criteria for inclusion in the set were as follows: "Two questions were asked of the candidates: Did they have an international career and would their recordings "sell in Taipei"?" And, apparently that is why the set includes Previn, Watts and Pletnev but not Petri, Bartók, Annie Fischer, Marcelle Meyer or Richard Goode. *gags* (Why do I have the feeling that if Deacon were assembling the set today he'd include Lang-Lang?)

For me, the best thing about the Philips set is the Samson François release, just because I think everyone should have some SF in their life (btw, if anyone here is looking to spend largish amounts of cash on a massive piano set, the 36 CD EMI Samson François Integrale set is pretty darn nifty!)

If nothing else, big box bookstores make great pit stops for those who need a quick refreshment or need to use the, er, quick relief facilities. There was a large Borders just a block away from the magnificent second-hand CD store on Sunset Boulevard, Amoeba, and I remember making an extended visit for more than one reason in 2009 (too much information?) on my last day in LA. That store closed a few days ago, too. Argh. If memory serves, that was the only bookstore on the vast colourful strip, and it stood out from all the other usual commercial hawking. Which makes me, oddly, a little nostalgic for LA. It has a rather bizarre landscape, miles of nothing and then throbbing hives of activity, stretched out along seemingly endless latitudes and longitudes.

I just mentioned my complete madness when it comes to CD-buying on the other thread (consumerism is far too mild a word to describe the scope of my obsession - I absolutely had to order the 36-CD François box set on EMI as soon as it was announced, for instance; it's just $61.31 on Amazon.ca, steep until you consider that 10-CD compilations of his performances go for $45.) I'll mention two more sites that aid in my follies: Presto Classical in the UK, which I haven't ordered from yet because I'm a little worried about potential customs charges, but which frequently has great offers (click to see) and, like ArkivMusic, an overall effective and very useful system for finding CDs that I use all the time; it's a very good way to be apprised of new releases and to discover what else is available in a given series (most of the other stores are terrible at this.) No, I'm not making a commission, unfortunately. It's just quite a pleasure to browse there and dream. Lola was mulling the Budapest performances of the Beethoven String Quartets, for instance; that's part of a new re-issue series ("Classical Masters") on Sony/RCA that brings back a lot of famous recordings to the catalog at silly prices, and you can browse the rest of the series at the site. Shipping rates seem quite reasonable, comparable to Arkiv.

Another useful site but a nightmare when it comes to searching is Grooves Inc., good for classical and other stuff - jazz or any of the popular genres. A Swiss operation that ships almost anywhere in the world for free (free for any amount this month as part of a promotion, but generally after a minimum order of about 20 Euros.) Many of their single CDs are priced attractively, sometimes lower than what you'll pay for them used, but pretty much the only way to find stuff on the site is searching for the artist. Sometimes the UPC will also work. It's better, however, to do a UPC search through Google. (To get the UPC of a CD you want, visit an Amazon product page, get the ASIN, and google for the ASIN followed by "UPC" or "EAN", ex. AB123XY UPC; EANs usually have an extra 0 at the front which you can remove; or just find the UPC on a Presto Classical listing page, if they have it.) The CD will show up on the Shopping tab (Google.com only, not the other Google sites) if Grooves-Inc. has it. (I'm not sure it's wise to reveal my time-wasting ways here, but I mean to stop. Eventually.)

PS If you're not in the US and are annoyed when Google only throws up local results you can't use, save "google.com/ncr" as your Home Page and you will always end up at the .com site.

Edit: link

Lead me not into temptation... lead me not into temptation... AAAARGHH!!

#27

the compilation is weirdly skewed and appears to reflect the particular and rather peculiar tastes of the series' executive producer

See, I hadn't read that but it felt like it. Oh well--one can't have perfect objectivity anyway. Overall it's a worthy set, as long as one knows what's missing... I don't understand what was meant by recordings selling "in Taipei". Broad international acceptance? I've always noticed Asian markets (well, Japanese) to be exceptionally receptive and interested in stuff long obscure to non-existent in the West. They also often represent the sort of virtuoso musicianship and experimental margins I like in much greater detail (more records! more better records!) than the West.

There was a large Borders just a block away from the magnificent second-hand CD store on Sunset Boulevard

Dude, if all you needed were the facilities, there's a "Jack in the Box" across the street!!

ETA: Been there, done that. Amoeba has a way of making you need to go.

Seconding Berkshire Record Outlet - that was the source of the EMI Beethoven that I seem to keep talking about.

They're semi-local to me - and, at least during the Tanglewood season, they open their warehouse for a few hours on Saturdays. (They're not quite a retail operation - you browse sample copies in a small shop in one corner of the warehouse, and then somebody runs into the stacks and pulls copies for you... a very old-fashioned system.)

#30

Ah, but the advantage of the chain bookstores is that you get to go, then you get to browse. And if you have to spend a little in gratitude, at least it's usually something you want to have, rather than overpriced cups of coffee/sugar water/etc.

#31

Grrrrrr. Just rub it in, why don't you. I'd love to get a ton of stuff from BRO but I'm always worried about getting fleeced at the border for all kinds of made-up charges.

(Funny how, when other collectors are around, you always end up talking about your sources than the music. It's like everyone has their favourite dealers and you're in if you know the nefarious handshake.)

Very saddened to read today of the death of composer, Peter Lieberson. Both Norman Lebrecht and Alex Ross have nice tributes on their blogs

Oh jeez, how freaky! First Lorraine Hunt then he... (Must admit that while I was very much aware of her, never knew who/what her husband was...)

I was devastated when Lorraine Hunt Lieberson died. Hers was one of the only "celebrity" deaths in recent years that made me cry and genuinely feel bereft (Susan Sontag was the other). For me, LHL was a legendary artist, one of the all-time greats; she was the greatest female lieder singer I was ever fortunate enough to hear in person and in every way was a wonderful, intense, committed, musical artist. I have yet to see her equal arise in the vocal music world.

Peter Lieberson wasn't really on my radar until he and Lorraine married, but after their marriage his creative spark seemed to catch flame and he composed some truly lovely music for her, as well as other music inspired by their mutual interests and ideals. His death seems especially sad following hers.

Thanks to Existanai for making me aware of Presto Classical. I'm in Japan, but the shipping rates are reasonable (no VAT), so I'm soon to be the happy owner of the Budapest Beethoven set (to compliment the Quartetto Italiano set I've been listening to for years), Szell conducting some Haydn symphonies, and Rubinstein playing Brahms. I look forward to some good listening.

#36 Thanks... for making me aware of Presto Classical... I'm soon to be the happy owner of... Rubinstein playing Brahms.

Welcome! I haven't heard that entire set, but I know it has the Brahms Cello Sonatas with Piatigorsky - an enthralling performance. (A chance to plug another lovely recording of the same repertoire - Serkin & Rostropovich on DG.)

#35

I heard her twice, I think both times pre-Lieberson, especially glad to have caught her in Mozart (trouser role no less!)

I was hoping to do a side-by-side comparison with Lorraine, but can't find fitting vids--anyway, of those I got to hear live, here's my go-to female lieder singer: Marjana Lipovšek: Wagner - Wesendonck Lieder.

gorgeous! I love the orchestration!

Christ, is there a more boring soprano than Soile Isokoski?!? (Listening to her Scene d'amore CD and feeling more sleepy than I do on a full dose of Ambien. ZZZZZ....)

Even Netrebko is more interesting than this woman and that is really saying something.

OK, she's passed Butterfly and she's on to Turandot's Liu and she sounds exactly like she did when singing Mimi (La Boheme) and Tatiana (Eugene Onegin). There is no difference in intonation, inflection, feeling...NOTHING! I'm about ready to poke my eardrums out with chopsticks here I am so bored. I can't take it any longer. I'm deleting this from my iTunes. Gah!

I have some Gerhaher singing Schoeck. I think I need it and I need it NOW!

Never heard of Isokoski...You're much more with it than me. Since the demise of the music shops, I'm basically cut off from "what's new". Occasionally I'll browse out something in the library, but that's it.

Never heard of Isokoski...

You're not missing anything. She's a Finnish soprano who first made a splash on the international music scene in 2002 with a recording of Strauss' 'Vier Letze Lieder' and other orchestral songs. It was a decent enough record with some very pretty if rather bland singing. I bought it-I think I've maybe played it four or five times with no burning desire to listen to it again. Isokoski's take reminded me of an even more emotionally opaque Janowitz but not accompanied by the great conductors and orchestras Janowitz was given. (Despite her very beautiful voice, Janowitz is not a favourite singer for me as I've always found her emotional range distinctly limited and her engagement with the text sporadic at best.) For some reason this record took the critics by storm and garnered rapturous praise, some of it bordering on the ridiculous (I linked the Amazon page so you can read excerpts of some of the more florid reviews-they're pretty funny). But she hasn't had a record since that's garnered much attention and the critical and consumer praise has dropped off as it's become clear that she sings everything in pretty much the same way and with the same lack of emotional involvement. The sole customer review (three stars) of 2008's 'Scene d'Amore', headlined "Nice technique and tone, but Isokoski sorely lacks temperament and involvement", pretty much says it all (and expresses my opinion of the CD and the singer quite well too).

Marie, could you offer a brief round-up of recent performers whom you think are worth checking out? My education in this area is non-existent, so I grope about using, as a guide, a typically infallible mix of overstated reputations, internet reviews and personal prejudice, but an informed opinion would be a welcome break from my routine. :)

Marietherese: Your comments gave me the impetus to pull out my recording of Isokoski doing Sibelius's orchestral songs. It's the only recording of her (and them) that I've heard, but it seems to me rather beautiful. I'd love to hear another version, though. Who do you think does the Sibelius songs better?

Judging by marietherese's take on Isokoski, sound unheard, I'm ready to rush and claim that Anne Sofie von Otter sings Sibelius better. (Note that von Otter is a mezzo.) The recording I have (tape actually) is from way early 1990s (maybe even older), but the later recordings of Otter show that she kept her sound fresh and vigorous a long time, should there be any later Sibelius (only in the most recent Offenbach recording do I begin to hear her drying out).

Dcozy, sorry but I'm afraid I can't really help you with the Sibelius request as I'm not a fan of Scandinavian orchestral music and know very little about it (I have to admit I'm not a big symphony/symphonic music person in general. After Beethoven, I like Berlioz, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler (love!) and sometimes Bruckner and, as far as symphonies go, that's pretty much it. I'm really a chamber music kind of gal). If the emotional range required in the Sibelius is circumscribed and the tessitura is high, I'm sure Isokoski is up to the challenge. However, if the text requires any kind of illumination, I'd go for Lola's suggestion and check out Otter (her recordings of Sibelius songs with piano are very good and recommended if you like that composer).

Existanai, I'll be happy to oblige on a list (there's nothing I like talking about more than my favourite singers-even wine comes second to that) but give me a day or two as I have a Riesling and Rhone party to set up tomorrow. Right now, though, I have two words for you: Christian Gerhaher He is the bee's knees! Seriously, I'll write more about him later but, for me, he's the finest active lieder singer around.

Oh yes, my Sibelius Otter is accompanied on piano by Forsberg.

a Riesling and Rhone party

Wish we were there!

I've idly contemplated buying the Complete Dowland box since it came out a couple of years ago.

What's holding me back (besides the cost...) is the suspicion that 282 tracks of the stuff is probably up around the LD50 dose.

Hmm. HMMM. Hmmm. HM. I'd be very tempted, but my reservation isn't all that Dowland (depressive art makes me cheerful), but all that Consort of Musicke. Yes--they own that stuff, but there are so many splendid English renaissance groups, it seems a pity to overload on only one ensemble, as solid as they are. Maybe for 25% off that lowest price? Otoh... all that Dowland.

Aaaah... Buy it buy it buy it!!!

temptress

Riiiiight--I see it now--you just needed someone to blame :)

Attended an Aimard concert today; brilliant Liszt Sonata in B Minor in the second half; first half was a more adventurous, less familiar programme but a little harder to 'get into' for that same reason. Before the concert started, they announced that Gerhaher would be visiting the same venue (and would be accompanied by Schiff - the latter fact did not enthuse an acquaintance who was also in attendance.) Sadly, the concert hall was barely one-thirds full; quite insulting to a pianist of Aimard's stature, though I'm not sure who or what was to blame. Not sure he'll feel like returning any time soon. He signed CDs after the concert, and though I usually hate lining up, hate schmoozing, and muttering some silly, unctuous praise, after giving in to cutthroat capitalists who fleece you for a CD, charged at twice the going rate - I did buy a CD and get it signed and passed on some awkwardly mumbled praise. I feel dumb. I appreciate a great concert, but I don't like the commerce and the superciliousness that surrounds it. And now I'm thinking more about the latter than the thrill of being almost right above the piano and watching the strings vibrate to the rising and falling dampers as the notes were hammered out.

Edit: typo

Meh - of the three ways to buy something (from the person who made it, from a local store, or from a huge store (in person or over the internet)) the act of buying directly from the artist actually has much to commend it. They often (usually?) aren't cutthroat captialists, they're often the artist's partner. If nothing else, the artist gets the largest fraction of the proceeds from a direct sale..

(Come to think of it, I'e been drafted into selling CDs at intermission, for the Emersons.)

Declining audiences are a problem throughout the classical world. I can't recall the last time our local venues actually sold out, except for tv-related middlebrow stuff.

I find your mention of "superciliousness" puzzling, E. Where and from whom do you get this vibe? Surely not from the artist? (Mind you, it's possible.) As for the audience, I've always experienced the utmost jolliness and camaraderie at concerts.* It doesn't matter how "grand" it may be, I've never experienced mere snobs overwhelming the aficionados. Maybe I'm bad at tracking them--I wouldn't be doing that intentionally anyway!

*With one--but jawdropping-- exception, the crazy total stranger/musicologist (assumption) in Florence who all but physically attacked me simply because I was sitting next to him while he was (assumption) so raging mad at being at one of Pavarotti's mass-concerts. (I told this story a number of times, probably on LT as well...)

But that was an extraordinary event, more like a circus performance, with the audience in tens of thousands. I've never been at anything like it since (nor have I ever run into someone like that crazy dude at all the zillion of music events before or since--or indeed anywhere).

Anyway, it saddens me that you should be perceiving that. And at a concert where I'd expect most people to be students and true lovers!

>Where and from whom do you get this vibe?... It doesn't matter how "grand" it may be, I've never experienced mere snobs overwhelming the aficionados.

It's possible I'm always scouting for reasons to feed my misanthropy, but there's often a certain excess of artifice, however you wish to define it. Not snobbery - on the contrary - there aren't any significant cohorts that one could identify as snobs (I'm more snobbish than most, actually) but there is a tendency for members of Society and anglers in that direction to show up ("have you met... do you know... I know someone who knows... oh, really?... oh, yes...") - maybe I pay the latter more attention than necessary.

My local audiences for classical music are reasonably prosperous, but are notably elderly, to the point that ungreyed heads stand out.

I find it quite sad that a perception of classical music or the opera as "elite" is very common in the Anglo-American sphere, and that ticket prices and advertising seem to confirm this notion. Things are headed this way the world over, so the complaint that opera houses or concert halls don't attract youth or appeal to a wider audience is a touch paradoxical. There's a lot more at work of course - education focused entirely on what might land one a job - but I don't believe this is an insignificant factor.

Reynaldo Hahn sure could write a pretty tune...

Susan Graham sings "À Chloris"

...but he also knew to choose a killer text!

Picked up yesterday Susan Graham/Roger Vignoles Hahn CD, for a buck. Best dollar I spent since February.

Lola, I bought that at Tower when it was first released. I think it was my introduction to Graham. It's a lovely CD, one of her best I think.

I like it considerably better than her Duparc CD, also with Vignoles. I still haven't found the perfect Duparc recording. Years and years ago, Dunja Vejzovic reduced me to tears in concert--been looking for THAT ever since.

Aack! It's Sarah Walker singing Duparc with Vignoles, NOT Susan Graham! That's it, I'm only good to be turned into glue and soap now.

Ah -- that's the CD on which she shares the bill with Thomas Allen, right? I must confess that am moved much more by Duparc's songs when they are sung by a baritone than by tenor, mezzo or sop (although I've only heard six or eight recordings, so my sample set is pretty small). I realize that Duparc wrote the majority of his songs for high voice -- tenor specifically, in some cases -- however (with one odd exception*) I am yet to hear a performance by a sop or tenor that really "does it for me." Is this related to the fact that I first heard these songs sung by a baritone? Perhaps, although I don't have the same problem with Chausson, Debussy or Faure--only Duparc. Curious, huh?

Curiouser: the one odd exception is that famous short set with Orchestra (Previn & the London Symph) by Dame Janet--a singer whose voice usually leaves me cold yet, on this recording, really connects with me. It is coupled with Chausson's Poeme de L'Amour et de la Mer (also beautiful).

It's ok if I'm idiosyncratically inconsistent, no?

Sure, sure.

Hm, maybe the circumstances under which one was moved first do matter the most. I am pining to relive that experience with a mezzo (like Vejzovic), although I have other recs with men.

I will look for that Baker rec then. I too mostly do not care for Dame Janet, with the exception of some Berlioz, Purcell.

Did Flicka ever record anything by Duparc? She recorded beautiful performances of songs by Debussy, Faure, Chausson, Canteloube, Poulenc, Satie, Messiaen...how could she not have recorded anything by Duparc?

Um... "Flicka"? Isn't that Scandy for "girl"? Girl who?

Flicka is Frederica von Stade. From the bio on her web site: "She has garnered critical and popular acclaim in her vast French repertoire as one of the world’s finest interpreters of Ravel’s Shéhérazade, Berlioz’s Les nuits d’été, and Canteloube’s Les chants d’Auvergne as well as the orchestrated songs of Debussy and Duparc." I have either heard or seen recordings of all of these--except the Duparc. (Also, I heard her in recital in 1981 or 1982, but can't for the life of me remember what she sang that night.) At any rate, as a mezzo who has specialized (among other things) in French mélodie, her interpretations of Duparc, although they may not duplicate your Vejzovic moment, would perhaps come as close as anybody -- it's hard to believe that she's never recorded these songs...

You'd think I'd have more von Stade, considering how ubiquitous she was, but no. Some opera, and nothing solo.

You are missing out on some lovely recordings then, Lola. She was a wonderful, thoughtful singer with a voice that always sounded plangent, sincere and youthful. I love her and treasure the solo recordings by her that I own (particularly the Mahler and the French recordings). I do not own anything by her covering Duparc though, so I assume she did not record much of this repertoire, although she may well have sung it fairly often in recital.

Like SilentInAWay, I prefer Duparc sung by a male voice and especially by a baritone. Stéphane Degout, the young French baritone who recently had great success at the Met in Rossini's 'Le Comte D'Ory' sings a few Duparc songs to great effect on his 2011 Naïve recording 'Mélodies'. My go-to singers in this repertoire are Souzay and Van Dam. For me, they are as good as it gets or at least good enough for me.

She is also, and will forever be, my Mélisande.

Yes, SilentInAWay, she is my favourite Mélisande too!

BTW, Existanai if you're still reading on this thread, I want to extend my sincerest apologies for the delay in answering your requests. I am working on a list of wine and musicians (although I keep second-guessing myself, adding, erasing and re-adding, etc. etc.) but life has thrown me a couple of curve-balls recently and I am so buried under personal and professional correspondence that I'm having trouble finding my way out. I will, eventually, resurface though. I promise!

(In the meantime, I think I mentioned Degout's 'Mélodies' above. It is fab and anyone who likes French song should check it out. Degout is also excellent as the baritone soloist on the Accentus/Laurence Equilbey recordings of Fauré's Requiem and the two-piano "London version" of Brahm's 'Ein Deutsches Requiem' (I am obssessed with this version right now and like it better than the standard full orchestral score. An equally good though considerably less polished interpretation is available from the Argentinian Grupo de Canto Coral* under the direction of Néstor Andrenacci))

*Worst name ever for a choral group in Latin America or Spain since it just means "choral singing group" and insures that every internet search will pull up umpteen million unrelated, totally amateur, utterly useless links.

ooh -- when you're done with your lists, perhaps you could suggest some wine pairings for one or two of the following:

Teresa Berganza
Cathy Berberian
Sherril Milnes
Aksel Schiøtz
Rudolf Serkin
Gustav Leonhardt
Mstislav Rostropovich
Anthony Rooley
Gustavo Dudamel
João Gilberto
Sarah Vaughan
John Coltrane
Aretha Franklin
Lyle Lovett
Peter Gabriel

SIAW, LOL! I was actually just listening to "the Dude" (as we folks here in Southern California like to refer to Dudamel) earlier today. KUSC has a streaming link to LA Philharmonic broadcasts and the most recent was a rather interesting program consisting of Webern's Five Orchestral Pieces, Takemitsu's 'Requiem for Strings' and Bruckner's 7th Symphony. I started off with a Brocard Chablis but switched to Bodegas Lan 2005 Rioja Especial as the Bruckner began. Needed something with a long tannic finish to stand up to all that repetition*! ;-p

*Seriously, if any composer was ever in desperate need of an editor-a really harsh, unforgiving, totally ruthless editor-it was Anton Bruckner. Schubert's repetitions may well be "heavenly"; Bruckner's...not so much.

I am so thankful that Dudamel has not been stuffing the schedule with Holst and Tchaikovsky (although I am only thankful in principle, I suppose, since I haven't managed to hear him conduct in person yet). Of those works, the only one I'm not familiar with is the Takemitsu -- and he's my favorite composer of the three!! Is the 'Requiem for Strings' a single-movement piece (like Barber's Adagio or Penderecki's Threnody) or a multi-movement work, like an actual Requiem?

My knowledge of wine, alas, is not deep enough to appreciate the suitability of your choices.

Oh, and I also live in SoCal -- Corona, to be precise. A bit of a cultural vacuum, though. I have to import my aesthetic and intellectual fixes (where I'd be without amazon, I don't know). I did make it out to L.A. last year to see the Freyer Ring, however. (That's one item crossed off my bucket list!!)

Back in the 70s, I remember admiring the album covers of the von Karajan recordings of the Bruckner symphonies on DG. When I actually got around to listening to them, I was disappointed that they were nowhere near as interesting as the mental image I had formed from those monumental covers.

My symphonic ideal runs more to late Mahler (Das Lied, #9, #10) and Brahms (#4).

Next time I descend on San Diego, we must all get together for a round of "match-wine-and-song". marietherese, you were worrying about putting a dent in your wine collection? A grave chore, but anything to help a friend. ;)

I find I don't have a symphonic ideal. Orchestral music is my least dear form.

>if any composer was ever in desperate need of an editor-a really harsh, unforgiving, totally ruthless editor-it was Anton Bruckner

Vandals! Heretics! Sacrilegists! Agents provocateurs! Assassins!

Well, I guess nothing can top Bernhard's indictment of Bruckner as Upper-Austrian Nazi-Catholic state-sanctioned sentimental kitsch, and I survived that; but then he said something similar about Mahler too.

All this huckster can offer in defence is that repetition in Bruckner is incantatory, and in that regard it is not particularly different from swathes of choral chant and organ music. And I generally prefer a Bruckner symphony to the latter (storm clouds swirl on the horizon; thunder rumbles.) I have something like 120 discs of Bruckner symphonies, I have listened to the majority of them, and during the most intense phase of my Brucknermania I was also downloading obscure recordings from abruckner.com and using them for comparison and reference, apart from listening pleasure. Not that I can really spot the difference between the numerous editions, nor do I love every single note. In fact, the most popular, or at least the most frequently recorded of his symphonies, the 4th and the 7th, are the ones that I tend to avoid because I find them over-familiar and tending towards the treacly under most batons. But at the risk of sounding hopelessly unsophisticated, Bruckner's very affecting. (I frequently have to prevent myself from purchasing more of or returning to the 5th and the 9th symphonies, and other repertoire by other composers that I love, so as to sample the many lesser known and the unheard works in my collection.)

I think Karajan is a wonderful match for Bruckner. I would even offer that Karajan's symphonic conducting is at its apex in Bruckner, and that he is in/famous because he would love to do with most orchestral performances what he does with Bruckner - smooth out some of the texture in order to impart the harmony and what some might feel is the ponderous and pontifical element. Perhaps, as Bernhard would possibly put it, because he's another proponent of Austrian Nazi-Catholic state-sanctioned sentimental kitsch; or in less caustic terms, possibly because Bruckner is Karajan's "symphonic ideal". However, despite the various affinities between Bruckner and Mahler, I think Karajan is not a strong Mahler conductor, and this lacuna is on account of what differentiates Bruckner from Mahler; Mahler fares best, perhaps, when liberated from a relatively streamlined perspective, and is best showcased by "wilder" figures like Horenstein (I've waxed about Mahler's 6th by Horenstein before, and it's perhaps the best example of what I mean.)

I'm now tempted to start talking about Mahler conductors I love, but I've gone on long enough. Anyway, Marie, you can still be absolved of your various sins by buying me a one-way ticket to your wine cellar (before anyone else.) God works in mysterious ways...

78
There is a scene in Berhard's Gargoyles in which the deformed prodigy has scrawled "music-hall stuff!" across Bruckner's portrait.

Although I hasten to add that I do not support that assessment.

R.I.P. Gustav Leonhardt, who died Monday at the age of 83, a mere month after announcing his retirement from the concert stage. I am deeply saddened by this death as Leonhardt, more than any other musician, first brought the music of the Baroque era to life for me. His Bach, his Froberger...listening to those recordings were life-changing, mind-altering experiences. He was truly one of the greats and his passing is an immeasurable loss.

Aaah!! Oh goodness, I hadn't heard! Do you know I heard him in concert in 2007 in Versailles--he was still performing at 80?! A gigantic career! I saw the movie where he played Bach when I was small and it imprinted as a feeling that he WAS Bach (movies, realities, all the same).

But a few years later others were beginning to squirm their way into my affections--Landowska, Tureck, Huguette Dreyfus, not to mention gazillion pianists.

Incidentally, have I praised Pierre Hantaï's Bach in here? If not consider it done, and thanks to the friend who gave me the CD of his Goldberg, on Mirare label.

Here's a minute of Leonhardt as Bach

Edited to add: the whole movie is on YouTube: The Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach (1968)

This is not the usual sort of biopic, btw, its focus is strictly music. No "acting" (practically everyone is a professional instrumentalist), and very spare story-telling (omitting any indication of, say, such intimate details like the prodigious humping JSB must've engaged in to produce two dozen or so offspring).

The top comment made me smile (cf. my #81). But Leonhardt never exhibited Bach's embonpoint! More like a dried herring he.

Reviving this thread to share a discovery:

I just stumbled across Amandine Beyer (and her ensemble Gli Incogniti) playing Nicola Matteis' Diverse Bizzarrie Sopra La Vecchia Sarabanda Ò Pur Ciaccona

It's everything I love about 17th century music.

Charming, utterly charming.

Returning the favour:

Heinrich I. F. von Biber, Sonata Representativa, part I

Heinrich I. F. von Biber, Sonata Representativa, part II

(Allegro, Nightingale, Cuckoo, Frog, Cock & Hen, Quail, Cat, Musketeer's march, Allemande)

Speaking of Biber, this ensemble will be in town in a couple of weeks, playing this:

A Far Cry : Biber's Battalia á 10 in D major, C.61 (1673)

LOOOOOOVELY! I hope you're going, Bob?

One of the few benefits in living over here is that it's handy to the Troy Music Hall, which is a national treasure: ANY show is worth hearing there.

So, "Maybe"...

(Back when there were major labels, Columbia/CBS used to use TMH for classical recordings, as did our own (late, lamented, local) Dorian Recordings. I've been to rehearsals there for various permutations of the Ma/Ax/Laredo/etc. combo, which turned into various Columbia CDs.)

That does look nice. Go, go, go.

Oh, Dorian. I remember when they first launched, I got a promotional CD--oh noes! do I still have it? I think I lent it to someone!--of... bawdy English tavern songs. Bawdy they sure were.

I have some Bach on their label too. It was a nice catalogue. The nineties--last golden era of musical recordings and music shops. Ever-lamented.

That does look nice. Go, go, go.

OK, OK, I went. (I could not deny a direct order from you.)

A good show, a pathetic turnout.

That's freakin sad. Was it the advertising, the weather...?

Speaking of the weather, we're having insane wind here now, and it started in the middle of the night, like it meant to blow the town away. So...

Marc-André Hamelin plays Alkan's Le vent (The wind)

No, the weather was wonderful for mid-January in upstate. Rather, it's the demographics of the classical market - - MOST of the tickets sold were down in the "Expensive" sections.

Now, one of the many joys of the Troy Music Hall is that there is not a bad seat in the house: the gallery seats sound as good as the expensive seats (and are arguably better-balanced than the box seats).

Yet about 2/3 of the few seats that WERE sold last night were down in the parquet: exactly three patrons bought cheap tickets up in the gallery. The audience that does show up is not put off by the price.

Which pretty conclusively shows that 'classical music' is not something that young people are doing on a Saturday night.

Ah, Saturdays are tough.

One thing I'd change though is the policy about unsold seats--give them away to kids, why not. Under-thirties or something. Sometimes even with the discounts it's crazy expensive, and if the seats are going to be empty anyway, what's the point?

And I'm guessing about 85% of the people in those expensive seats had white hair. Sad.

Off to hear Leif Segerstam lead the Yomiuri Philharmonic in Mozart and Mahler tonight.

Getting ready to catalogue the instrumental/orchestral section of my music, I put on some alphabetically-early Albrechstberger I had bought for my "unusual" instruments sub-collection.

Sample:

First movement from the Concerto in E-major for Jew's harp, mandora and orchestra

Mozart wrote for the glass harmonica:

Adagio from KV617, glass harmonica alone

and Beethoven for the mandolin:

Sonatina in C minor for mandolin and piano

I have an LP of the Albrechtsberger somewhere. I think it was Haydn who wrote some nice pieces for a musical clock.

And Schubert, of course, wrote a sonata for the arpeggione.

Wait--Haydn actually scored something for a clock?! I know about the Clock symphony (rhythmic pattern effect), but nothing else.

Once we hit the 20th century, there's lots of such "curious" instruments, so I'm especially fond of the earlier ones.

More, more!

Haydn wrote several pieces (Flötenuhrstücke, Hob. XIX) for a musical clock in the form of a mechanically-controlled miniature pipe-organ.

http://www.holmbergclockworks.com/history.html

Oh, the organ clock! This is sweet--you get to compare the mechanical and the traditional organ:

Haydn Flötenuhrstücke Hob XIX Nr 1-4 Live in Gouda

Anton Webern's arrangement of the 6-part Ricercar from Bach's "Musical offering"

Utah Symphony Orchestra, Maurice Abravanel

My favourite version of the ricercar is one made by the Basel Ensemble with a single wind instrument on each line: it makes the structure translucently clear.

Sergei Rachmaninov's "Italian Polka", transcribed and played by Vyacheslav Gryaznov.

(Attention-conservation notice: This comes under the heading "Don't mind me, I just need to tell people about this".)

As we see the Age of The Compact Disc come to an end, many labels are shoveling together their back-catalog and pushing inventory out the door in the form of the bargain boxed-set.

- Sony's 'Vivarte' box: : 60 CDs for $75 or so;

- the DG Archiv box: 55 CDs for $110 or so;

- returning to the "Leonhardt' sub-thead up at #80-82, there are now several competing boxed sets of his stuff:

http://www.importcds.com/music/1482179/gustav-leonhardt-jubilee-edition
http://www.importcds.com/music/1492818/gustav-leonhardt-edition
(And a third from DHM, which already seems to be sold out here in the US ...).

- and for the last year or two, Deutsche Harmonia Mundi (now owned by Sony) has been bundling their stuff up by theme and selling them off "10-discs-for 15-or-20-bucks or so". (They probably have more than a dozen of these boxes: e.g., their "Bach Edition" . (It's a nice little collection.))

As an early adopter of the CD, I find the idea of the sub-two-dollar-CD to be nearly irresistible: an hour of music for the price of a cup of coffee or a newspaper?