War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 4, Part IV

New thread for volume 4, part IV

Thread for the 1st epilogue: http://www.librarything.com/topic/113835

Yay, done with the novel. Only 2 epilogues left!

I have to read up on Kutuzov, I can't really relate to Tolstoi's description of him. No-one was happy with his actions, but he was the savior of Russia, got his Order of St. George, became 'useless', "and so he died". I'd like to know more.

Nice interlude with the scenes of basic soldier life, I would have liked more of that.

Some nice character interaction here, especially between Marya and Natasha (I knew they could be great friends). The old countess, as much as I can understand her devastation about Petya's death, seems to become a kind of hindrance to everyone.

Pierre again. Now the parallels Franzen tried to draw in "Freedom" are obvious, but the original is so much better. Another revelation - this time it's freedom, exactly until he sees Natasha again and is happy his freedom is taken from him. Is there really such a great difference between old Pierre and new Pierre?
When he pays Helene's debts and loses 3/4 of his fortune he seems like old Pierre to me.

I would never have believed I'd support a marriage of Natasha and Pierre, but now suddenly it seems believable. And I like Marya's role in it.

Great last chapter. Tolstoi should have ended the book with it.

Just stopping by to tell you how much I've enjoyed reading your posts on War and Peace, Deern. I read the book about 8 years ago, and at the time I didn't have ANYONE to discuss it with as no one I knew had read it. It's been nice to revisit it through these posts. It's one of those books that I know I will re-read again someday.

Sandy K

I liked this section, very life affirming.

I liked how Tolstoy defended Kutuzov against all the historians who thought he should have pressed on with the war. His aim was always to just get rid of the French, not wage a wider war. That has more or less been achieved, so he doesn’t care about the French any more, neither does Tolstoy and neither do we. The powers that be want a wider European war, so Kutuzov’s time is over:
“Nothing remained for the representative of the national war to do but to die. And Kutuzov died.”
I actually think this is kind of the perfect end for him.

The very process of grieving – for Andrei and now for Petya – and of helping her mother through her grief stirs up feelings of love and life in Natasha. This must have been happening all over Russia, as people started to feel the stirrings of possible future lives.

Pierre has completed his transformation to a more spiritual, less confused man, and people like him better. I think he is a metaphor for Russia itself, now come through the greatest possible trauma, and able to move forward more spiritually. His two conversations with Maria and Natasha are cathartic for all of them, and for us as readers.

The section ends with them, and Moscow, coming back to life. I actually found this ending very emotional exhausting – what they and we have been through! I am glad Pierre and Natasha will get together (at least it looks that way).

I just can’t move straight on to the Epilogues. I know they will show how life has “normalized” in the future. But I don’t want it to normalize yet. I want it to sit there, exhausted by trauma, but with the seeds of hope.

My reactions were similar to yours here, and after reading the last words of the last chapter - without knowing what was to come in epilogue 1 - I thought 'I wished he would have let it end here'. It would have been a bit of an open ending, but as you wrote, life affirming and emotional, and we would still have had a clear idea about the future couples. It would have been a great ending.

I'd like to say something more about Pierre, but I'll save that for the wrap-up thread.

I've just finished the first Epilogue (and can see that the second isn't about the characters) and wish he'd stopped it here too!

I really liked this section (and most of the last 500 pages, but I haven't posted on the other threads yet - I have just been reading as fast as I can). I agree that the Pierre and Natasha thing finally seems credible, and really liked how he wrote this plot line here.

I'd really like to read a good non-fiction book about Napoleon and the war, but not quite yet! I liked the bits about Kutuzov. Even though I came into the book knowing next to nothing about the historical parts, I feel like I have soaked quite a bit up - enough to try something more detailed.

From what Tolstoy says, it seems that most historians (at least up to his time) were very negative about Kutuzov. He was one of my fave characters, and obviously Tolstoy's, too, so I'd be interested in knowing more about him, and why/how Tolstoy decided he was better than the historians thought. If you do find a book he features highly in, please let me know.